Boots of Speed D&D 3.5

[Erdinger]

Recently, my DM checked my character sheet and saw this magic item.
He claims this item is OP and because of this he wont allow me to have this item.

Boots of Speed :As a free action, the wearer can click her boot heels togehter, enabling her to act as thought affected by a haste Spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds. (12,000GP)
EDIT : DMG page 250.
My question is : What do you think about this item? Is too OP? Would you allow it as a DM?
FYI, i'm a melee character.

Thanks from ahead.

[OldTrees1]

OP is relative. What is the rest of the party?
10 rounds of Haste is not much haste but is cheap(especially compared to a Speed Weapon).

[BearonVonMu]

What level are you?
How much wealth has been distributed to the party?
What other items are available to the player characters?

I don't consider that item overpowered whatsoever for a tenth level melee character, and would likely be fine at level six.
If you had it before then, it either means you saved up for it (and are therefore lacking in other expensive items, like heavily enchanted arms or armor) or had money to spare (in which case the GM has been giving out tons of loot and should not be worried about any particular piece of it).

I typically consider haste to be one of the standard buffs that the party should have up and running for serious encounters.
In short, there are far, far more dangerous items available far more cheaply. The belt of battle, for example, from the MIC.

[Erdinger]

OP is relative. What is the rest of the party?
10 rounds of Haste is not much haste but is cheap(especially compared to a Speed Weapon).

We're manily melee character, about 4 player. and 2 spellcasters which are new to d&d, two of them are divine spellcasters.


What level are you?
How much wealth has been distributed to the party?
What other items are available to the player characters?

I don't consider that item overpowered whatsoever for a tenth level melee character, and would likely be fine at level six.
If you had it before then, it either means you saved up for it (and are therefore lacking in other expensive items, like heavily enchanted arms or armor) or had money to spare (in which case the GM has been giving out tons of loot and should not be worried about any particular piece of it).

I typically consider haste to be one of the standard buffs that the party should have up and running for serious encounters.
In short, there are far, far more dangerous items available far more cheaply. The belt of battle, for example, from the MIC.

1. 15
2. We're using only 80% from the wealth table in MIC, because that how the DM decided.
3. All items can be used, no specific ban is mentioned.

We started our campign at level 13, because we're kinda experts at 3.5 edition. at least most of us... So i had them since the beginning.

[OldTrees1]

We're manily melee character, about 4 player. and 2 spellcasters which are new to d&d, two of them are divine spellcasters.

Then I don't think the boots are OP, at that level you could easily be using a Speed Weapon. Perhaps double check you and your DM both understand how little Haste does (+1 attack on full attacks and a boost to movement speed on move actions) and make sure you stick within the 10 rounds per day.

[LTwerewolf]

We started our campign at level 13, because we're kinda experts at 3.5 edition. at least most of us... So i had them since the beginning.

If someone thinks haste is overpowered, I would assert this statement is not true. Time with a system does not necessarily mean mastery of said system. Can you have the DM explain their reasoning?

[Telonius]

Since you're a melee character, you're probably not getting the full benefit of the +30 movement, either (unless you're a dwarf). There are a lot of things in the PHB and DMG that are overpowered; Haste and Boots of Speed really aren't among them.

Is the DM thinking of the 3.0 version of Haste? That gave a much higher AC bonus. Or maybe he's bothered by the free action activation?

[Elder_Basilisk]

Boots of speed are one of the best items available for martial characters at your level.

At lower levels, they are either unaffordable or a round 1 haste is generally the best use of a wizard's action which means that they will often be redundant. By level 13 or so, a round 1 haste is rarely the best use of the wizard's action (though a quickened haste is not a bad choice if the party fighters do not have boots of speed, and "Cleric Haste AKA righteous wrath of the faithful (or blessings of fervor if you are playing pathfinder) is a solid round 1 action for the cleric if you don't have boots of speed). However, boots of speed are very affordable by that level and can free up actions and spell slots for your wizard and cleric so they're very good. On the other hand, there's a decent case to be made for Scouts' Boots (or multiple pairs of them since they don't get many charges) from the MIC since they add a move+multiple attack capability that is otherwise very difficult to come by.

Speed weapons as an alternative to boots of speed/haste have potential but are extremely inefficient. You're far better off with a +1 holy, wounding or +1 holy, magebane weapon plus boots of speed than a +1 weapon of speed.

However, as to broken? No. Not broken, just very effective. Haste is an important and powerful effect but there are lots of ways to get it. If your DM bans boots of speed, the party can just shrug, buy a lesser rod of quicken spell for the wizard (quickened haste 3 combats per day in round 1 at a similar cost to three sets of boots of speed) and scout's boots for all the fighters instead. Belt of battle is a broken item (and would be on the banned list if I allowed general access to the MIC). Boots of speed are just a good item.

[Erdinger]

Since you're a melee character, you're probably not getting the full benefit of the +30 movement, either (unless you're a dwarf). There are a lot of things in the PHB and DMG that are overpowered; Haste and Boots of Speed really aren't among them.

Is the DM thinking of the 3.0 version of Haste? That gave a much higher AC bonus. Or maybe he's bothered by the free action activation?

He's bothered by the free action activation...

[OldTrees1]

He's bothered by the free action activation...

Oh, easy fix: Make it a Swift action activation.
Or make it a Standard Action activation but increase the rounds per day(since the activation cost now wastes a round).

[Elder_Basilisk]

Oh, easy fix: Make it a Swift action activation.
Or make it a Standard Action activation but increase the rounds per day(since the activation cost now wastes a round).

Standard action activation would make them useless--using them would actually be counterproductive no matter how many rounds per day they worked. If every party member has to spend a round 1 action to get haste, you're giving up too much for too small a benefit (and there is probably no benefit that could be good enough to be worth that kind of a cost and still preserve any semblance of fun). Much better to just have someone cast haste/righteous wrath of the faithful and be done with it. (Quickened haste via metamagic rod is especially recommended in that situation).

Swift action activation would not be a significant change in power level but would fit better with the MIC era magic item model.(None at all for martials who have very few uses for swift actions, but maybe a slight decrease in power for CoDzillas who would no longer be able to put up quickened divine favor+boots of speed+full attack in round 1. Then again, most of the time, it's round 1: divine power/righteous might+quickened divine favor, round 2. boots of speed+full attack anyway so it's not a big deal for CoDzillas anyway).

[Erdinger]

Standard action activation would make them useless--using them would actually be counterproductive no matter how many rounds per day they worked. If every party member has to spend a round 1 action to get haste, you're giving up too much for too small a benefit (and there is probably no benefit that could be good enough to be worth that kind of a cost and still preserve any semblance of fun). Much better to just have someone cast haste/righteous wrath of the faithful and be done with it. (Quickened haste via metamagic rod is especially recommended in that situation).

Swift action activation would not be a significant change in power level but would fit better with the MIC era magic item model.(None at all for martials who have very few uses for swift actions, but maybe a slight decrease in power for CoDzillas who would no longer be able to put up quickened divine favor+boots of speed+full attack in round 1. Then again, most of the time, it's round 1: divine power/righteous might+quickened divine favor, round 2. boots of speed+full attack anyway so it's not a big deal for CoDzillas anyway).

Well said, i dont think there's any major change i can do that both fit the will of the DM and doesnt make it a useless item...
I just hope that if i show him that thread he might change his mind...

[OldTrees1]

Standard action activation would make them useless--using them would actually be counterproductive no matter how many rounds per day they worked. If every party member has to spend a round 1 action to get haste, you're giving up too much for too small a benefit (and there is probably no benefit that could be good enough to be worth that kind of a cost and still preserve any semblance of fun). Much better to just have someone cast haste/righteous wrath of the faithful and be done with it. (Quickened haste via metamagic rod is especially recommended in that situation).

Swift action activation would not be a significant change in power level but would fit better with the MIC era magic item model.(None at all for martials who have very few uses for swift actions, but maybe a slight decrease in power for CoDzillas who would no longer be able to put up quickened divine favor+boots of speed+full attack in round 1. Then again, most of the time, it's round 1: divine power/righteous might+quickened divine favor, round 2. boots of speed+full attack anyway so it's not a big deal for CoDzillas anyway).

Swift action is the better model. No questions there. Its mere existence makes the Standard action model seem idiotically inelegant (I realized that prior to mentioning both).


However while Standard action would cost turns and be counter productive if not planned for, I can still see plenty of use for it(try the surprise round? or for an ambush?) depending on the group's power level(low in this case if I am reading right). So if the correct change is unacceptable to the DM, the Standard action model can be a functional subpar alternative.

[Mr Adventurer]

"What's wrong with my character being able to have something the party Wizard could have been doing for every member of the party ten levels ago?"

[BearonVonMu]

At 15th level, any primary spellcaster could be using a quickened haste on the whole party on a regular basis, likely as an opening move for every fight.
If no items are banned and you have all of those funds available, those boots, while potent, aren't overpowered by any means.
As was said before, changing their activation to a swift action would be reasonable. If it was insisted that they use a standard action to activate, then they should probably be giving ten rounds of effect each time they were activated. Read: make them an at-will item of CL 10 haste.

[Troacctid]

A Wand of Swift Haste is only 6000 gp.

[Erdinger]

"What's wrong with my character being able to have something the party Wizard could have been doing for every member of the party ten levels ago?"

I agree with you, unfortunately my DM doesnt...

[Mr Adventurer]

So what is his response?