Ride-By Attack + Pounce

[Dyslexic]

Ride-By Attack claims I can, during a charge, move and attack and then move again.
Pounce tells when I charge, I can can follow with a full attack.

If I have both, can I make a charge attack, move and then do the full attack?

[Troacctid]

No. You can't charge while mounted. Your mount charges, and you gain the +2 attack and -2 AC along with it. If your mount has the pounce ability, it can make a full attack at the end of the charge.

[Gallowglass]

I wouldn't allow it. I don't consider pounce to work on a mounted charge, because it is only meant for when you charge, not when your horse charges and carries you along with it.

[ComaVision]

Person_Man made an interesting build that kind of gets a full attack on a mounted charge. Click here to check it out. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?88633-Haberdash-the-Masked-The-3-5-Kitchen-Sink&p=4758241#post4758241)

[Darrin]

Ride-By Attack is borked because the designers never bothered to work out how the mounted combat rules were supposed to work. The text for Ride-By Attack assumes that the rider is charging. But the rider is mounted, he can't even move unless he dismounts, so he's not the one taking the charge action.

The mount is charging... except it isn't. As per the charge rules, it has to move to the closest square. This often places the target directly in front of the mount, which blocks any subsequent forward movement. In fact, any charge with an obstacle in the way is an illegal charge that you couldn't even declare in the first place. (Except the Jump rules say you can jump over obstacles... but then never defines if an obstacle is a creature, object, terrain, etc.)

But let's assume that an adjacent square is the same distance, and it permits the mount to continue in a straight line. The rider is armed with a lance... a REACH weapon. So at that closest square, where the rider can now make his attack... it's within his 5' reach, and (assuming the target is medium-sized) he can't actually attack with a lance.

It's hard to tell where exactly the mount gets to attack. If this happens at the end of the mount's movement, then this is dumb because often the mount is now too far away to attack. Presumably it gets to attack at the "closest square", and Ride-By Attack allows it to continue it's movement from there.

Ride-By Attack is dysfunctional. You need to tweak it a bit so that the rider and/or mount can attack from a square that allows them to keep moving in a straight line.

As far as Pounce goes, this doesn't work for a mounted rider. There are a few PrCs that allow a rider to make a full attack from the saddle (Cavalier, Ashworm Dragoon, Wild Plains Outrider), but there are still restrictions on it.

You might be able to Pounce if you use the rules for a Fast Dismount: Use a free action to direct your mount to charge up to your target. You still have all your actions left, so use a Fast Dismount (Ride check DC 20) to exit off the back of your mount, leaving at least 10' between you and your target. Declare your charge and finish with a full attack via Pounce.

[torrasque666]

But let's assume that an adjacent square is the same distance, and it permits the mount to continue in a straight line. The rider is armed with a lance... a REACH weapon. So at that closest square, where the rider can now make his attack... it's within his 5' reach, and (assuming the target is medium-sized) he can't actually attack with a lance.Medium creatures require Large mounts. Most mounts are horses (for simplicity's sake) and despite Table 7-1 stating that Large (Long) creatures have a 5ft reach, horses don't have any text describing them as (Long) creatures, just Large. Thus, a horse has a 10ft reach.

[ComaVision]

Medium creatures require Large mounts. Most mounts are horses (for simplicity's sake) and despite Table 7-1 stating that Large (Long) creatures have a 5ft reach, horses don't have any text describing them as (Long) creatures, just Large. Thus, a horse has a 10ft reach.


Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

IIRC, "long" was only a thing in 3.0

[erok0809]

Medium creatures require Large mounts. Most mounts are horses (for simplicity's sake) and despite Table 7-1 stating that Large (Long) creatures have a 5ft reach, horses don't have any text describing them as (Long) creatures, just Large. Thus, a horse has a 10ft reach.

The statblock for the horse in the Monster Manual says their space/reach is 10 ft/5 ft. They have 5 foot reach, despite being Large creatures.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[torrasque666]

IIRC, "long" was only a thing in 3.0


The statblock for the horse in the Monster Manual says their space/reach is 10 ft/5 ft. They have 5 foot reach, despite being Large creatures.

Edit: Ninja'd.
I gotta stop skimming stuff...

[Darrin]

Medium creatures require Large mounts. Most mounts are horses (for simplicity's sake) and despite Table 7-1 stating that Large (Long) creatures have a 5ft reach, horses don't have any text describing them as (Long) creatures, just Large. Thus, a horse has a 10ft reach.

My point was about a medium-sized rider wielding a lance with reach, and thus can't attack targets within 5'. Assuming the mount has 10' reach, this is only a problem if you ride 10' beyond your target. Then your mount reaches the end of it's charge but has nothing to attack (which begs the question if the charge was legal in the first place).

[Troacctid]

The rider doesn't have to attack at the end of the charge. She gets a +2 bonus to hit if she does, but other than that, she can attack at any point during the mount's movement.

[Darrin]

The rider doesn't have to attack at the end of the charge. She gets a +2 bonus to hit if she does, but other than that, she can attack at any point during the mount's movement.

Ride-By Attack doesn't work like Fly-By Attack. There's nothing in the text about being able to attack at any point. The crux of it all is its a horribly written feat.

What infuriates me is it was borked up that way on day 1 of 3.0, and none of the designers noticed or tried to fix it during the entire 3.x product run.

[Troacctid]

Ride-By Attack doesn't work like Fly-By Attack. There's nothing in the text about being able to attack at any point. The crux of it all is its a horribly written feat.

What infuriates me is it was borked up that way on day 1 of 3.0, and none of the designers noticed or tried to fix it during the entire 3.x product run.

There doesn't need to be. You can make a melee attack at any point in your mount's movement, with or without the feat.