Making two character fight

[Linker2k]

Hello!

I'm currently running HOTDQ and next time the party will enter the Dragon Hatchery, on the room of the violet fungi i'm taking a different approach to make it more fun:

- The first two players that walk into the ladder will activate the ramp.
- Even if it is a 10ft fall, the two characters will feel that they have been falling for at least 50ft
- Each character will then stand up to a different room, one will be on a kind of underdark forest or lair and the other on a tomb.
- The players will realise that a monster stands up next to them, the monster eyes tells the character that they are the main course for dinner and a sensation of threat will take every part of their body.

-Initiative

The trick behind this is that the character will actually be trippin' because of the spores and fighting each other. So i will make

-CHR Attack - Monster Attack - CHR attack - Monster Attack

I will disguise the monster's attack using the character rolls / techniques and damage.

Here is the part where i need ideas:

- There are two ways a character can go back to reality:
a. He / She receives 10 pt damage.
b. After a Character is waken it can make a Persuation roll to wake the other up.

What i want to avoid it's once one of the characters wake up, the other now knowing that he is actually attacking his mate, starts attacking with less power (for example change his main weapon for a dagger, or not using Manuevers) or start taking actions not to damage the other.

How can i do this also any other ideas on this will be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Douche]

I usually just put my players in a situation where they are forced to fight for my amusement or else they will both die. If you really want a good time, have the evil king kidnap the spouse of one of your players and put them in gladiator combat where he will be forced to choose between killing a dear friend or having his spouse executed before his eyes.

I kind of like your way too though, cuz whoever wins will then feel superior to the loser. From then on, every time the loser wants to question the winner, he can just say "Hey, remember that time I gave you the whuppin' of a lifetime? Shut up, nerd!"

[Linker2k]

Great thinking but that's not the point LOL.

On another note i'm thinking 6 or 7 damage instead of 10.

[Alejandro]

Hello!

I'm currently running HOTDQ and next time the party will enter the Dragon Hatchery, on the room of the violet fungi i'm taking a different approach to make it more fun:

- The first two players that walk into the ladder will activate the ramp.
- Even if it is a 10ft fall, the two characters will feel that they have been falling for at least 50ft
- Each character will then stand up to a different room, one will be on a kind of underdark forest or lair and the other on a tomb.
- The players will realise that a monster stands up next to them, the monster eyes tells the character that they are the main course for dinner and a sensation of threat will take every part of their body.

-Initiative

The trick behind this is that the character will actually be trippin' because of the spores and fighting each other. So i will make

-CHR Attack - Monster Attack - CHR attack - Monster Attack

I will disguise the monster's attack using the character rolls / techniques and damage.

Here is the part where i need ideas:

- There are two ways a character can go back to reality:
a. He / She receives 10 pt damage.
b. After a Character is waken it can make a Persuation roll to wake the other up.

What i want to avoid it's once one of the characters wake up, the other now knowing that he is actually attacking his mate, starts attacking with less power (for example change his main weapon for a dagger, or not using Manuevers) or start taking actions not to damage the other.

How can i do this also any other ideas on this will be appreciated.

Thanks!

What if the player just wants to have their PC flee or otherwise escape the situation?

[Linker2k]

What if the player just wants to have their PC flee or otherwise escape the situation?

I know the players and they wont flee, as i said above ideally they will think they are on a closed place with one way up (via the ramp) Anyhow a possibility for that is that if the character run it will hit a wall and also come back to reality.

[Alejandro]

I know the players and they wont flee, as i said above ideally they will think they are on a closed place with one way up (via the ramp) Anyhow a possibility for that is that if the character run it will hit a wall and also come back to reality.

"I know the players and they won't X" is a statement that many GMs regret. :D

[JackPhoenix]

Unless you're somehow running both players away from each other (in which case they would know something is going on) or they are both stupid, they will soon notice something is up when the "monster" does exactly the damage the other character did in previous round, misses when the other character misses, crits at the same time... Not mentioning spells, maneuvers, etc.

I don't think this is possible to do in a RL game.

[saeval]

I know you said they'd wake up after 6-10 damage, but its possible that one character does considerably more than that in one attack... which makes this a kind of crazy CR "trap". That particular dungeon needs no help being difficult for players without added scenario's.. and they should definitely have some way of noticing, this shouldn't be a scripted railroad event.

[Linker2k]

I know you said they'd wake up after 6-10 damage, but its possible that one character does considerably more than that in one attack... which makes this a kind of crazy CR "trap". That particular dungeon needs no help being difficult for players without added scenario's.. and they should definitely have some way of noticing, this shouldn't be a scripted railroad event.

Really good point, i'll change the event and i'll make them fight to the death and when they die, they will realise that it was all an illution. (No damage will be applied)

[Radimus]

Unless you're somehow running both players away from each other (in which case they would know something is going on) or they are both stupid, they will soon notice something is up when the "monster" does exactly the damage the other character did in previous round, misses when the other character misses, crits at the same time... Not mentioning spells, maneuvers, etc.

JackPhoenix makes a very good point about the players realizing the monster does the exact same damage as the player before them.

A few recommendations and concerns.

1.) The entire scenario is based on an auto-fail mind-effecting hallucinogenic spore. After the trap is resolved, what stops the PCs from attempting to harvest this no-save mechanic you have just created? I would definitely create a saving throw for this trap. Even if one player passes the save, you still have a character who sees a monster which has stolen the voice of your ally!

2.) If both players fail the save (if you use a save) then the real challenge is to realize the monster is a hallucination of their friend. What clues are they being given to overcome this challenge?


Personally, I like the idea of the monster always attacking with a weapon which should deal different damage than it actually does. (Ex: the monster slashes with claws, but since the wizard used fire bolt the claws actually dealt fire damage.)
Creating a small "dampening table" akin to "roll 1d4, and reduce the damage by X amount" will let the battle persist longer, giving the PCs the change to figure things out, and removes the "I did the exact damage the last person did" issue. If the PCs need the stronger hint, you drop the table and the CR goes up.


3.) I would caution against the "if we kill each other it was an illusion and no one was actually hurt" end. That could lead to a mentality of "lets do dumb stuff, because there are no consequences."

4.) If the group has a strong sense of camaraderie, then dumping them into the same hallucinatory room might encourage them to search for each other. I offer this as insurance against the possibility of the characters running from the monster.

Good luck with this trap, and let us know how it plays out!

[Burley]

Really good point, i'll change the event and i'll make them fight to the death and when they die, they will realise that it was all an illution. (No damage will be applied)

I think that giving the players the chance to kill each other is a bad idea, but you can't remove the stakes, entirely.

"It was all a dream," is a great way to upset your audience. Be sure to incorporate a reeeaaally good reason for why that trap is there. If it's literally only a time waster (the player's are enchanted to think they're fighting, but they're all just in an illusion/shared dream), why did the dungeon designer go through the trouble of putting it there in the first place? Is it because the Dungeon Boss needs more time to complete his evil plot and uses that room to buy an extra few hours while the PCs are in a dream-state?

If the purpose of the encounter is that you, as the DM, thought it would be fun/interesting/funny to have the PCs fight each other, then you, as the world/dungeon/villain, need to give an explanation for why that happened.

These kinds of encounters can be fun, but they're tricky territory. Give the encounter legitimacy and stakes for happy success.

[Linker2k]

Thanks for all the feedback, taking into consideration what you indicated i'm using this:

CON - DC 16 to save the spore trap.

I'll use the 1d4 damage reduction.

Each turn

WIS (Perception or Insight) - DC 20 (It will reduce in 3 per turn) to come back to reality

If one of them comes to reality but the other does not, the other one will be forced to continue attacking the player.

The other player can take his standard action each turn to try to wake the player against the current DC (I think persuation roll), if it fails, the DC is still reduced by 2, the other player will start to hear his mate voice far away but won't be able to understand.

The player that it is still allucinating that the enemy is attackingand each turn needs to roll Constitution DC equals his own AC, if fails he receives Psychic damage (1d4) as if the enemy has hit him / her (this wont count for the initial 7-10 points of damage).

At this point if the player "hints" something it's off and wont attack he will have to take a reverse sanctuary kind of save WIS DC 15 if success he cannot attack instead and take other action. If fails he will be forced to attack.

After the event, as long as they are in the room once each turn they will have to roll a DC CON save that i will disguise as perception checks (I will make 20-Perception and if it's 7 or lower they'll pass) inventing prices (chests, gold, items, etc) that will lead them to the violet fungi.

How does this sound? Any other sugestions?

[Mellack]

I find the encounter to be too much of a railroad based on the automatically effecting mind-control spores. Almost nothing in this game is automatic. They need the chance to save otherwise it feels too forced. As DM, you control 99% of the game world. Don't take the only thing the players have, control of their character, away from them.

If you do decide to use this, it will be a balancing nightmare. What do you do if the wizard decides to drop his biggest spell since he thinks he is all alone? Or the Paladin uses a high-level smite and crits? Anything like this could easily drop a fellow PC. If you make it all a dream it feels kinda cheap.

Edit: You seem to have solved a lot of the control issues. I still think you might be looking at a player death if you have a couple bad rolls.

[Linker2k]

Edit: You seem to have solved a lot of the control issues. I still think you might be looking at a player death if you have a couple bad rolls.

It's a good point i'm thinking i'll make them do the attack rolls and i'll modify the damage (for example 1d6 per hit + 1 point per technique manuever, etc used)

If it's a spell i'll make 1d6 if cantrip 1d8 if lvl 1 spell or 1d10 if level 2 spell.

[Linker2k]

Just to let you all know that this worked better than expected, the trap did not affect anyone but a later trap mindf**k our barbarian that went full Hulk against the rest of the party (great roll on his side).

Everyone had lots of fun getting smashed and trying to stop the barbarian (it was similar to Avengers one Hulk episode on the helicarrier).

Thanks for all the suggestions!