How do I... (invocations, mainly)

[Grim Reader]

- Qualify for Eldritch Knight as a Fighter/Warlock or similar ?

- Qualify for Ultimate Magus as a Warlock/Dragonfire Adept and double-progress the Invocations?

- Get extra senses on a mundane, such as a fighter/barbarian etc, as soon as possible? Blindsight, mindsight, tremorsense etc?

None of these are for games, just concepts that I have mused on for a while. the last one, for example, is for a "blind Knight" bulid. No need for big optimization.

[Gildedragon]

3 is easy... For a subset of senses: dragonborn eyes aspect (or is it heart). There is a blindfold that gives you blindfight or blindsense iirc. Also feral template i think grants scent

1: you need to cast 3rd level spells. Arguably you could use precocious apprentice and a cheapened Heighten

2: no cigar. It advances spontaneous and prepared casting

[Red Fel]

- Qualify for Eldritch Knight as a Fighter/Warlock or similar ?

You don't. Eldritch Knight requires the ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. Unless you have some sort of feat or special feature that permits you to do this, Warlock doesn't qualify you.

If you do have such a feature, chances are you got it independently of Warlock.


- Qualify for Ultimate Magus as a Warlock/Dragonfire Adept and double-progress the Invocations?

Nope again. Ultimate Magus requires you to be able to spontaneously cast 1st-level arcane spells, and prepare and cast 2nd-level arcane spells from a spellbook. Now, in theory, you could cheese Precocious Apprentice to let you do one of these, but again, that's something pretty much anybody with a CL could achieve.


- Get extra senses on a mundane, such as a fighter/barbarian etc, as soon as possible? Blindsight, mindsight, tremorsense etc?

Shape Soulmeld (Shedu Crown) + Open Least Chakra (Crown). That gives you Telepathy out to 100 feet. Then take the Mindsight feat and you're set.

[Troacctid]

Daelkyr Half-Bloods begin play with a breed leech symbiont that has blindsight. You yourself don't get the ability, but the symbiont can telepathically communicate to you what it "sees".

If you want a full BAB option for a Warlock, I think Cyran Avenger is easier to qualify for.

[Psyren]

For a "blind swordsman" I'd go with Psion/Ranger/Slayer. Lots of skill points, and you can get both mindsight and touchsight for supreme senses.

[Troacctid]

For a "blind swordsman" I'd go with Psion/Ranger/Slayer. Lots of skill points, and you can get both mindsight and touchsight for supreme senses.
More importantly, you get Synesthete.

[Necroticplague]

- Qualify for Eldritch Knight as a Fighter/Warlock or similar ?

- Qualify for Ultimate Magus as a Warlock/Dragonfire Adept and double-progress the Invocations?

- Get extra senses on a mundane, such as a fighter/barbarian etc, as soon as possible? Blindsight, mindsight, tremorsense etc?

None of these are for games, just concepts that I have mused on for a while. the last one, for example, is for a "blind Knight" bulid. No need for big optimization.

1. Without multicalssing, you don't. Warlocks have a caster level, but don't cast spells.

2.See above.

3. Be of a race that has them, get magic items that provide them.

[Grim Reader]

1: you need to cast 3rd level spells. Arguably you could use precocious apprentice and a cheapened Heighten

2: no cigar. It advances spontaneous and prepared casting



Nope again. Ultimate Magus requires you to be able to spontaneously cast 1st-level arcane spells, and prepare and cast 2nd-level arcane spells from a spellbook. Now, in theory, you could cheese Precocious Apprentice to let you do one of these, but again, that's something pretty much anybody with a CL could achieve.



Shape Soulmeld (Shedu Crown) + Open Least Chakra (Crown). That gives you Telepathy out to 100 feet. Then take the Mindsight feat and you're set.


More importantly, you get Synesthete.


Thank you. Some interesting ideas there.

On the Warlock/Eldritch Knight idea, I suppose the heighten cheese is the only way. Magical Training + Versatile + Heighten + Sanctum Spell.

"My father was a mighty wizard: I found his body in the ruins of his sanctum. As my inheritance burned around me, I cried to the heavens for vengeance, and something answered"

That is high gouda, but it is only for my own use, and I am more lenient with cheese used to achieve something interesting than something powerful. Warlock/Eldritch Knight is probably less powerful than straight Warlock anyway.

Theurging invocations seem much harder to do. I thought Eldritch Theurge was the easy way, but that's blocked. The only way to accomplish it seems to be treating the English language in a way you would not treat a lady.

I can qualify for Ultimate Magus with Magical Training + Versatile + Heighten + Arcane Preparation, or a level of Sorcerer with Versatile and Heighten. Beyond that, however, I'm drawing a blank.

[Gildedragon]

Thank you. Some interesting ideas there.

On the Warlock/Eldritch Knight idea, I suppose the heighten cheese is the only way. Magical Training + Versatile + Heighten + Sanctum Spell.

"My father was a mighty wizard: I found his body in the ruins of his sanctum. As my inheritance burned around me, I cried to the heavens for vengeance, and something answered"

That is high gouda, but it is only for my own use, and I am more lenient with cheese used to achieve something interesting than something powerful. Warlock/Eldritch Knight is probably less powerful than straight Warlock anyway.

Theurging invocations seem much harder to do. I thought Eldritch Theurge was the easy way, but that's blocked. The only way to accomplish it seems to be treating the English language in a way you would not treat a lady.

I can qualify for Ultimate Magus with Magical Training + Versatile + Heighten + Arcane Preparation, or a level of Sorcerer with Versatile and Heighten. Beyond that, however, I'm drawing a blank.

Why is Eldritch Theurge blocked? It straightforward allows warlocks and another arcane spellcaster.

Also that little bit of fluff text you put in: That is a binder->animamage fluff to the T; and vestiges do give at-will blasty abilities

[Troacctid]

A better idea might be to use Knight Phantom (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) instead of Eldritch Knight. Instead of 3rd level spells, it only requires the ability to cast Phantom Steed. That means having Phantom Steed as a spell-like ability counts, too. As it happens, Phantom Steed is one of the spell-like abilities you can get from a Lesser Dragonmark of Passage, so just roll up a member of House Orien and you're in business. (Ask your DM if you can substitute Sudden Still instead of Still Spell so it works with invocations.)

[Grim Reader]

Hm... looking at the Hellfire Warlock thread, Warlocks can qualify for Precocious Apprentice at level 1. That actually allows them to qualify as spontaneous by selecting cha-based casting, and later add Arcane Preparation. That does not let Dragonfire Adept take any "+1 aracne caster levels" though....

[Grim Reader]

Why is Eldritch Theurge blocked? It straightforward allows warlocks and another arcane spellcaster.

There is a sentence in the text about adding "+1 arcane spellcasting" that says "(but not invocation-using class)" It is probably there to stop people from double-advancing Warlock, but it also has the effect of blocking theurging with Dragonfire Adept, unless you use an exceptionally twisted interpretation of the language.


A better idea might be to use Knight Phantom (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) instead of Eldritch Knight. Instead of 3rd level spells, it only requires the ability to cast Phantom Steed. That means having Phantom Steed as a spell-like ability counts, too. As it happens, Phantom Steed is one of the spell-like abilities you can get from a Lesser Dragonmark of Passage, so just roll up a member of House Orien and you're in business. (Ask your DM if you can substitute Sudden Still instead of Still Spell so it works with invocations.)

Ohhh that is a beautiful idea! Thank you:)

[Troacctid]

As Guigarci pointed out, Ultimate Magus can't advance invocations even if you qualify for it somehow. It only works on prepared arcane casting classes and spontaneous arcane casting classes. Warlock and Dragonfire Adept are arcane casting classes, but they are neither spontaneous nor prepared, so they're not valid choices to progress with Ultimate Magus.

[Grim Reader]

As Guigarci pointed out, Ultimate Magus can't advance invocations even if you qualify for it somehow. It only works on prepared arcane casting classes and spontaneous arcane casting classes. Warlock and Dragonfire Adept are arcane casting classes, but they are neither spontaneous nor prepared, so they're not valid choices to progress with Ultimate Magus.

Out of the box, yes. However, you can qualify as both spontaneous and prepared with Precocious Apprentice, since neither definition is exclusive. However, that only qualifies one of the two invocation-using classes you need.

Also, you do have to assume that the invocation-using classes ability to be advanced by "+1 arcane spellcasting" also includes subsets of "+1 arcane etc"

[Troacctid]

Out of the box, yes. However, you can qualify as both spontaneous and prepared with Precocious Apprentice, since neither definition is exclusive. However, that only qualifies one of the two invocation-using classes you need.
Having the ability to cast spontaneous or prepared spells by some other means doesn't make an invoking class into a spontaneous or prepared casting class, so it's still no good.


Also, you do have to assume that the invocation-using classes ability to be advanced by "+1 arcane spellcasting" also includes subsets of "+1 arcane etc"
I don't see why I'd assume that. Would you say you can advance your invocations with Lyric Thaumaturge? Bard spellcasting is a subset of arcane spellcasting.

[Grim Reader]

Having the ability to cast spontaneous or prepared spells by some other means doesn't make an invoking class into a spontaneous or prepared casting class, so it's still no good.

I don't see why I'd assume that. Would you say you can advance your invocations with Lyric Thaumaturge? Bard spellcasting is a subset of arcane spellcasting.

Admittedly, they are grey areas. I could make a lawyers argument for both though. You qualify for PA through the Warlocks arcane caster level, it gives you a spell and a spell slot, that you can cast out of, and which tracks your spell progression.

I don't see why I wouldn't let Lyric Thaumaturge advance Warlock casting. Wean it off its Sublime Chord fixation at least:) But Bard spell casting is a subset of the spontaneous spell casting subset of arcane casting.

[weckar]

Ultimate Magus COULD, in theory, advance an invocation user with their 'advance lowest' levels. Hardly worth it, though. And it would still require proper casting from two sources to qualify.