Making a good +5 weapon enhancement

[SnugUndies]

Unless I'm mistaken, there is exactly one +5 weapon enhancement in D&D - Vorpal. Problem is, most people can agree that it's not especially good, considering the price tag it entails. While it is an extremely classic effect and definitely cool, it's simply not worth it. What if there was a +5 weapon enhancement that was worth it, though? How strong would it have to be to justify spending 50 000 gp on your sword?

Just to get things rolling, Greater Spell-Storing is something of a low-hanging fruit. The same as spell-storing, except it can hold a spell of up to 8th level, or up to two of 6th level or lower, or up to three of 4th level or lower.

[Gildedragon]

There is another one

Coup de Grace:
Coup de grace weapons are exceptionally dangerous. On a successful critical hit (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits), the foe must succeed on a DC 27 Will save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#will) or be paralyzed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#paralyzed) for 1 round. While this ability does work on creatures that are immune to extra damage from critical hits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits), it does not work on creatures without an Intelligence score. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability on their ammunition.

[Troacctid]

Every attack also releases three cones and two lines of energy damage, mimicking the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

[Psyren]

How strong would it have to be to justify spending 50 000 gp on your sword?

Actually you'd need to spend 72,000, since you need the +1 to start with

[inuyasha]

Actually you'd need to spend 72,000, since you need the +1 to start with

And even that only gets you a +1 vorpal weapon, which is extremely unimpressive. My characters who want to cut heads get a +2 Keen Vorpal Scimitar of Impact!

[SnugUndies]

There is another one

Ah, I wasn't aware. Very interesting. Also very not-worth-it.


Every attack also releases three cones and two lines of energy damage, mimicking the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

Ooh, that would be pretty cool. How much damage would it have to do, though? 1d6 of each would be basically the same as having five +1 enhancements, for instance.


Actually you'd need to spend 72,000, since you need the +1 to start with

You're absolutely right.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As a free action, instead of just making attack rolls against your foes' AC total, you can instead choose to make attack rolls against 10 + their Reflex save modifier. Foes count as flat-footed against such attacks. You can choose whether or not to attack the save before making each attack roll, and can change back and forth at will.

[martixy]

Okay, I've had this idea of improving Vorpal, tell me if it's any good.
In a game where this is in effect: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/calledShots.html
Vorpal weapons automatically upgrade the severity of a called shot.
I feel this is powerful enough to warrant the +5 and opens up opportunity both for high to-hit characters(since this translates to DC) and crit-fishing, since you go all slicey-dicey on critters.

Alternatively, another thing I like to play with is those Critical effects cards.
Vorpal could also let you draw 3 and choose whichever one you like.

[Godskook]

Here's a suggestion:

Avenger:

Your weapon gains the property Bane permanently for any opponent who(max 4)

-Defeats you in battle
-Kills an ally in your sight
-Attacks an innocent in your sight
-Wounds you(~25% of your HP in a single round in lethal damage)
-Sunders this weapon.

Your weapon is treated as having the property Bane against any opponent who

-Opposes your god
-Is currently committing a crime
-Is Chaotic or Evil(Apply once against a chaotic evil foe)

These benefits stack with each other, but only apply if the weapon is wielded by the same person. You may swear a bloodoath of vengeance against a target in the name of the weapon's previous owner, you are treated as if you were the previous owner for the purpose of that target. A weapon enchanted with Avenger need not have been enchanted when these acts occurred. The enchantment divines the history of the weapon.

(Note: A weapon with Bane: Chaotic and Avenger does not stack when attacking Chaotic Neutral creatures as the effective bonuses are "of the same type", while they would against a Chaotic Evil foe. Similarly with Bane: Evil.)


Thoughts: Against an ideal target, gives +14d6 damage, but such targets have killed a PC and defeated the party already. More practically, few foes would qualify for more than 2-3 of these, making the typical case closer to +4d6+8 or so.

[Gildedragon]

This thread ought probably go in the Homebrew section

[Nosta]

I have an idea for 1
its a +5 one that allows the sword to replicate any +3 ability or lower ability
kinda like how sizing changes size of the blade
morphing changes weapon type
and that one that changes the material its made out off

change your sword from a 6 weapon to any combo of +3 speed +4 holy and so worth

[Spore]

1) Ignores DR of any kind short of DR/- or DR/epic.

2) Adaptable damage type (including full on elemental damage, no pos/neg energy/force though).

3) As a free action, can set the Bane weapon property on the enemy you are fighting (no knowledge roll required).

4) Let's you double your Strength (or Dex mod) on attack for the first attack on a target each day and deal an additional 1 damage per hit dice (stolen from and stacking with Smite Evil).

[Gruftzwerg]

I would be for a touch attack weapon for the cost of +5.
Since Brilliant Energy is +4 and bypasses any nonliving matter (it can't bypass natural armor), I think a full touch attack effect could be available for +5.

[SnugUndies]

What about permanent Wraithstrike? "All attacks performed with this weapon are resolved as touch attacks."

[T.G. Oskar]

You could have one where, as a critical hit, your attacks instantly kill the enemy and destroy its remains unless it succeeds on a DC 20 Fortitude save, in which case it takes 10d6 points of extra damage - in other words, the effect of a Destruction spell on every critical hit. It fits the idea of a +5 ability, has a decent effect on a failed save (so every crit is dangerous), and it'd be perfectly worth 72k HP on any weapon. If you feel it's too much? Reduce the extra damage on a failed save to 2d6, +1d6 for every critical hit multiplier above 2 (thus, a x4 weapon would deal 4d6 extra damage). That on a Kaorti Ribbon weapon would be devastating.

You could create equivalents to Vorpal (PF did it with piercing weapons, for example).

Dancing is a +4 property; you could make a +5 property that works somewhat like it, except instead it allows you to split and have double actions for the next 4 rounds, with equal stats, half HP but sharing any limited-use abilities, at the cost of leaving you dazed for 1 round and fatigued/exhausted thereafter (the half HP means you can get killed easily, tho). It'd be basically a more potent form of Dancing, where instead of having your weapon act on its own, your weapon creates a temporary duplicate.

Trying to make other +5 enhancements, and make them useful, is really difficult. I mean, you could invent enhancements that grant AoE abilities, or treat you as if you were a Giant in terms of Strength and weapon damage, but those would be closer to +3 or +4 in terms of worth. Vorpal could have easily been a +4 enhancement and would have been worthwhile - it requires a natural 20, not an attack roll that becomes a critical threat, and only works with slashing weapons.

[SnugUndies]

"Gemini - +5 enhancement bonus.
A gemini weapon allows its wielder to make two simultaneous attack rolls (using the same modifier) each time her or she attacks with it. Both attack rolls have to have the same target and are resolved separately."

Inspired by the infamous Crescent Knife from Dragon Magazine and the Splitting weapon enhancement. I think the jump in power this has over Speed, and the versatility over Splitting, might make it a worthwhile +5 enhancement. Dual-wielding Gemini Keen Enervating Kukris could be fun, if expensive.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

"Gemini - +5 enhancement bonus.
A gemini weapon allows its wielder to make two simultaneous attack rolls (using the same modifier) each time her or she attacks with it. Both attack rolls have to have the same target and are resolved separately."

Inspired by the infamous Crescent Knife from Dragon Magazine and the Splitting weapon enhancement. I think the jump in power this has over Speed, and the versatility over Splitting, might make it a worthwhile +5 enhancement. Dual-wielding Gemini Keen Enervating Kukris could be fun, if expensive.Dealing x4 damage is only a +3 enhancement. See manyfang, from Serpent Kingdoms.

[hamishspence]

And even that only gets you a +1 vorpal weapon, which is extremely unimpressive. My characters who want to cut heads get a +2 Keen Vorpal Scimitar of Impact!

I thought Impact was Bludgeoning Only?

[zergling.exe]

Dealing x4 damage is only a +3 enhancement. See manyfang, from Serpent Kingdoms.

Manyfang is a specific weapon and not actually a +3 weapon enhancement. While the dagger may be worth as much as a +4 dagger, it is not a RAW enhancement, and easily could be labeled as a higher value on a more powerful weapon.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Manyfang is a specific weapon and not actually a +3 weapon enhancement. While the dagger may be worth as much as a +4 dagger, it is not a RAW enhancement, and easily could be labeled as a higher value on a more powerful weapon.The MIC has rules for transplanting specific item properties onto other items. And it's a choice between a +3 property or +32,000 gp. The former makes more sense than the latter, since the value actually scales.

Honestly, I don't know why the game designers thought that +1d6 energy damage is worth more at level 20 than at level 5, so it just had to scale.

[zergling.exe]

The MIC has rules for transplanting specific item properties onto other items. And it's a choice between a +3 property or +32,000 gp. The former makes more sense than the latter, since the value actually scales.

Honestly, I don't know why the game designers thought that +1d6 energy damage is worth more at level 20 than at level 5, so it just had to scale.

Where does it state that for weapons? The only thing I could find was referring almost exlusively to wondrous items (due to talking about item slots). The MIC also explicitly tells you that the prices are estimates, and so a greatsword that does x4 damage would almost definitely be worth much more than a dagger that does x4.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Where does it state that for weapons? The only thing I could find was referring almost exlusively to wondrous items (due to talking about item slots). The MIC also explicitly tells you that the prices are estimates, and so a greatsword that does x4 damage would almost definitely be worth much more than a dagger that does x4.MIC, pg 233, read the section under "Improving Magic Items" that begins, "You can add new magical abilities to a magic item with virtually no restrictions." Note how it keeps saying "magic items," not "wondrous items."

If all else fails, add the morphing and sizing properties to a manyfang dagger.

[zergling.exe]

MIC, pg 233, read the section under "Improving Magic Items" that begins, "You can add new magical abilities to a magic item with virtually no restrictions." Note how it keeps saying "magic items," not "wondrous items."

If all else fails, add the morphing and sizing properties to a manyfang dagger.

Though there are always restrictions: what the DM wants there to be.

And even with morphing and sizing, you still wind up with only light weapons and inappropriate size penalties. Just because the dagger is now huge sized and you have to wield it as a two-handed weapon doesn't mean you can make it a greatsword. It's still a huge light weapon and restriced to light weapons for morphing, only now you have a -4 penalty wielding it. And if you make it a d6 weapon, it does 1d10 damage, so it's still not all that great.

[martixy]

Though there are always restrictions: what the DM wants there to be.

And even with morphing and sizing, you still wind up with only light weapons and inappropriate size penalties. Just because the dagger is now huge sized and you have to wield it as a two-handed weapon doesn't mean you can make it a greatsword. It's still a huge light weapon and restriced to light weapons for morphing, only now you have a -4 penalty wielding it. And if you make it a d6 weapon, it does 1d10 damage, so it's still not all that great.

There is that "Weapon Equivalences" variant rule from the DMG.

[zergling.exe]

There is that "Weapon Equivalences" variant rule from the DMG.

Started a new thread to end the derail. Right here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?484399-Getting-the-Manyfang-Dagger-s-effect-on-other-Weapons)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Though there are always restrictions: what the DM wants there to be.Rule Zero does not change what the rules say. Houserules are always a possibility, but they have nothing to do with this discussion.

[Cosi]

Otataral: The weapon emanates a 10ft radius antimagic field, which does not suppress items.
Soul Reaving: The weapon inflicts 1(d4) negative level(s) on targets it hits. These negative levels may be spend as if by a Devourer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devourer.htm). Can only be applied to a weapon made of Thinuan.
Thunderhead: The wielder is surrounded by a storm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/weather.htm) of his choice at all times. He is immune to the storm's effects. He is also under an effect similar to call lightning, though the bolts deal BABd6 damage, may be called as a swift action, and may be called as often as he likes.
Reshaping: Once per round, as a free action, the wielder may change the form of the weapon to that of any weapon, made of any material, with any one enhancement (+4 max). For example, she could change it to a Brilliant Energy Adamantine Greatsword one round, and a Speed Longbow the next round, and a Dancing Cold Iron Scimatar the round.
Breaching: Any target hit by the weapon must make a Will save (DC 10 +BAB +Enhancement Bonus) or be transported to a plane of the wielder's choice as by plane shift. The wielder may also use planar shift at will by using the weapon to cut holes in the fabric of reality.


And even that only gets you a +1 vorpal weapon, which is extremely unimpressive. My characters who want to cut heads get a +2 Keen Vorpal Scimitar of Impact!

That's what greater magic weapon is for.

[mauk2]

For the record: This thread is awesome. :)

Also:

http://epicpath.org/index.php/Magic_Item_Enchant_-_Magic_Weapon_Properties#Epic_Weapon_Properties_.2 B5


We made the design choice to lock many/most of the +5 properties behind the Epic requirement for level 20, but in your own game, "Do as thou wilt."


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...I'm writing down most of these ideas, by the way. :D

[SnugUndies]

"Absorption - A weapon with this special quality acts as a magnet for magic, drawing spells or spell-like abilities into itself. The magic absorbed must be a single-target spell or a ray directed at either the character possessing the weapon or her gear. The weapon then nullifies the spell’s effect and stores its potential until the wielder releases this energy. Absorption requires no action on the part of the user so long as the weapon is held.
An absorption weapon gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls for each spell stored in it. As a swift action, the wielder can discard any number of stored spells. All attacks made with the weapon that round deal an additional 2d6 damage for each spell discharged. An absorption weapon can hold up to five spells at a time."

The Rod of Absorption made for a tempting springboard. I hope this balances the effect for indefinite use (it can absorb infinite spells, but still does nothing about non-targeted effects,) but I'll admit I don't really have any experience with high-level play.