Is there any advantage to SOR/WIZ?

[Scorponok]

I was thinking about backstories for some of my players today, and wondering if this is plausible?

Backstory is a person who is a sorcerer, and develops his inner charisma, but upon further study, just finds he is not very powerful, and most likely, will never ascend to the heights reached by some of the greatest sorcerers in the land. He then studies magic as a wizard, doing experiments, buying materials, and gaining knowledge through rigorous study. He eventually reaches Sor 3/Wiz 3.

Gameplay wise, is there any advantage to this combo? From what I gather, he gains a ton of low level spells, but can only cast highest level spells of the 2nd level. He can use both his charisma and int to calculate saving throws?

[Troacctid]

You are probably looking for the Ultimate Magus prestige class from Complete Mage.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Your best bet would be going Dragonwrought kobold and gaining those sorcerer levels through draconic optimization without taking the actual levels. Then one level of actual sorcerer, followed by theurging it up. The only reason you need the level of sorcerer at all is so that the "+1 level of existing spontaneous arcane casting class" functions properly.

[Psyren]

You are probably looking for the Ultimate Magus prestige class from Complete Mage.

Alternatively, this sounds like a PF Arcanist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist) with the Bloodline Development (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist/arcane-exploits/bloodline-development) exploit. You have a very weak bloodline, your powers come primarily from study rather than your heritage, but you can use the former to power up the latter when you need a boost.

[Necroticplague]

He can use both his charisma and int to calculate saving throws?
This part isn't quiet correct. He'd keep track of his Wizard and Sorceror spells seperately. the DC for his wizard spells would be INT based, and his sorceror spells would be CHA based.

That being said, I'm not sure why this concept needs any sorceror levels. Realizing he had some innate magic ability, but was crap at it until he devoted himself to intensive training, sounds perfectly plausible to just be a straight wizard.

And to answer the OP: not really. Sharing the same spell list, there's going to be a ton of redundancy. Having two casting stats (when, for either class, the other's casting stat is normally a dump stat) increases MAD. Not really any synergy at play here. A good multi-spell-class combo should either open up access to more or new spells, use the same casting stat, or both (thus, why archivist/erudite is awesome).

[Troacctid]

Innate magic could also be represented with a feat such as Soul of the North, Necropolis Born, or Fey Presence, rather than with a Sorcerer level.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psionics is a helluvalot more inborn than sorcerous casting. After all, who needs to sing a little song, dance in a circle, and fling bat poo to use an inborn ability? With psionics, you just concentrate on your inner power and enforce your will on reality.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You can get a decent effect out of this if you make it sorc 1/ wiz 5/ ultimate magus 10.

Most will tell you that sorc/wiz entry on UM is a poor decision since you could enter as a wiz/ beguiler and stay SAD (single ability dependent) but one of the advantages to a spontaneous/prepared combo is that you can slot spells you use frequently to the spontaneous side and use the prepared side for prep-as-you-go spells. Sorcerer serves this better than beguiler, IMO.

In any case, you don't want an even split. Sac'ing progression for versatility is -rarely- a good idea in the long run and you're -really- gonna feel that two spell level lag if there's another caster in your party.

If you really want the best of both spontaneous and prepared though, go with a psion/ wizard/ cerebremancer. Both intel based classes and practiced manifester takes nearly all the edge off of being a few levels behind on psion.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you really want the best of both spontaneous and prepared though, go with a psion/ wizard/ cerebremancer. Both intel based classes and practiced manifester takes nearly all the edge off of being a few levels behind on psion.Plus, psions have a ton of effects that arcane magic can't duplicate. Sorcerers have a few spells that wizards don't (and vice versa), but not that many, and the effects aren't usually anything to write home about. And if you want them anyway, convert-spell-to-power erudite can get 'em with no problem regardless.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Plus, psions have a ton of effects that arcane magic can't duplicate. Sorcerers have a few spells that wizards don't (and vice versa), but not that many, and the effects aren't usually anything to write home about. And if you want them anyway, convert-spell-to-power erudite can get 'em with no problem regardless.

I tend to shy away from the StP variant erudite, as a DM. It's a variant of a variant and one of the major points for me when it comes to the psionics/magic divide is that there are some things that one does that the other doesn't and vice-versa. That and it's a little tacky to be using a variant of a variant, taste wise.

In the particular case of a cerebremancer though, erudite is a terrible choice. All those extra powers known are redundant next to wizard casting and limiting the versatility your psionic side has during the day (unique powers per day mechanic) kind of defeats the purpose of having a spontaneous side in the first place. If you want to be an erudite, you should just be a straight erudite, IMO.

[Troacctid]

You can't really be an Erudite Cerebremancer because Cerebremancer is a psionic class, so it triggers Erudite's multiclass restriction—you have to have fewer Cerebremancer levels than you do Erudite levels or you lose the Erudite's special ability to learn new powers.

[johnbragg]

I was thinking Sorcerer 1/Wizard 5+. But that doesn't really get you anything that Wizard 5 doesn't.

But what if the inborn talent doesn't make the PC a born mediocre Sorcerer, but an Adept? You could use the Spontaneous Divine Caster variant for 2 spells known and 2 spells per day (assuming a 13 or better Wisdom). The adept spell list has bless, command and cure light wounds at 1st level. Adept also has create water, cure minor wounds and purify food and drink as orizons, together with the nifty touch of fatigue.

As DM, you can wave your hands and switch WIS for CHA as the casting stat.

[Douglas]

You can't really be an Erudite Cerebremancer because Cerebremancer is a psionic class, so it triggers Erudite's multiclass restriction—you have to have fewer Cerebremancer levels than you do Erudite levels or you lose the Erudite's special ability to learn new powers.
I think "psionic class" in cases like this uses a definition similar to the one for "spellcasting class" that prevents the various theurge classes from advancing each other - a "spellcasting class" is a class that grants its own spellcasting independent of any other class; likewise, a "psionic class" is a class that grants its own manifesting independent of any other class. Cerebremancer doesn't qualify because it only advances the casting/manifesting of other classes.

[Troacctid]

I think "psionic class" in cases like this uses a definition similar to the one for "spellcasting class" that prevents the various theurge classes from advancing each other - a "spellcasting class" is a class that grants its own spellcasting independent of any other class; likewise, a "psionic class" is a class that grants its own manifesting independent of any other class. Cerebremancer doesn't qualify because it only advances the casting/manifesting of other classes.
It is explicitly stated at the start of their respective chapters that all the base classes and prestige classes in XPH are psionic classes. Even the Soulknife is considered a psionic class, despite not having a manifesting progression.

[KillingAScarab]

I was thinking about backstories for some of my players today, and wondering if this is plausible?

Backstory is a person who is a sorcerer, and develops his inner charisma, but upon further study, just finds he is not very powerful, and most likely, will never ascend to the heights reached by some of the greatest sorcerers in the land. He then studies magic as a wizard, doing experiments, buying materials, and gaining knowledge through rigorous study. He eventually reaches Sor 3/Wiz 3.

Gameplay wise, is there any advantage to this combo? From what I gather, he gains a ton of low level spells, but can only cast highest level spells of the 2nd level. He can use both his charisma and int to calculate saving throws?Last part first, there could conceivably be a feat which would allow you to use intelligence as the casting stat for sorcerer spells, but if there is I'm not familiar with it.

One thing to consider is how you want to use your spell slots. In order to know (for spontaneous spellcasters) or learn (for prepared spellcasters) a spell, you need to have an ability bonus for the relevant ability which is at least equal to the level of the spell. However, there isn't such a restriction on the use of spell slots. Quoted from The Hypertext d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#wizardSpellSlots), emphasis is mine.


The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his or her due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower level.
You can make use of these by 1.) simply casting the spells you do know/have learned more often or 2.) use them for applying metamagic feats to spells. Is it sub-optimal? Sure, but it is an option which I never see discussed. I was actually expecting this to come up in the comic by now for why the Order can't find an NPC to cast X spell to overcome obstacle Y so they can resolve plot Z.

[Grim Reader]

I was thinking about backstories for some of my players today, and wondering if this is plausible?

Backstory is a person who is a sorcerer, and develops his inner charisma, but upon further study, just finds he is not very powerful, and most likely, will never ascend to the heights reached by some of the greatest sorcerers in the land. He then studies magic as a wizard, doing experiments, buying materials, and gaining knowledge through rigorous study. He eventually reaches Sor 3/Wiz 3.

Gameplay wise, is there any advantage to this combo? From what I gather, he gains a ton of low level spells, but can only cast highest level spells of the 2nd level. He can use both his charisma and int to calculate saving throws?

Gameplaywise it is a terrible combo, and cripples your character. Take the Magical Training Background feat, or something similar to represent your early training as a Sorcerer, and stick all your levels in Wizard or Arcanist.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Last part first, there could conceivably be a feat which would allow you to use intelligence as the casting stat for sorcerer spells, but if there is I'm not familiar with it.The Lost Tradition feat from the 3rd party book Bastards and Bloodlines allows you to change the casting stat of one class to any other stat (yes, even Con).

[Gildedragon]

For a sorcerous heritage: magic in the blood template