Gimme Some Damage!

[glitterbaby]

I'm looking at making a 12th level Gloura Bard/Gish for an upcoming game and would like some help in getting the hits to actually do some damage. The Gloura class comes in at ECL 9 with some great racial stats as well as Bard 7 casting and Cha to AC/Saves. Assume LA Buyoff is in play and all official 3.5/PF sources are acceptable, bonus points if sticking to 3.5. I'll be picking up a Bard level and Chaos music so I'm looking to progress Bardic Music and Spellcasting on a halfway decent chassis in the future.

Weapon Finesse is easy enough to get and effective enough combined with spells and music to consider my to-hit a finished product. The struggle is finding damage so my hits aren't just tickling. DFI is fine but then you're beholden to a particular energy and what happens when the creature has resistance or immunity to the energy? Shadow Blade is another option but it's rather feat intensive without a level dip and a Swordsage dip does very little for me apart from the Shadow Blade prereqs. It doesn't give White Raven for Song of the White Raven, it has a blagh BAB and HD for a dip, etc.

So what kinds of suggestions can you guys offer in terms of outputting melee damage on a level 12 Gloura/Bard/Gish character? Are there other options? Is DFI better than I'm giving it credit? Should I suck it up and take the three feats for Shadow Blade?

[AnonymousPepper]

DFI can be sonic damage by being descended from a pyroclastic dragon (Draconomicon p. 182). Almost nothing resists sonic damage. And you can amp up your damage output via the spell creaking cacophony (Druid or Bard 3, Spell Compendium page 55) which gives everything in its area of effect sonic vulnerability, no save.

[ATHATH]

Does the Gloura give Bardic Music? If not, dip a level of Heartfire Fanner to get better BM than just taking straight Bard will get you.

[Inevitability]

Does the Gloura give Bardic Music? If not, dip a level of Heartfire Fanner to get better BM than just taking straight Bard will get you.

Any gloura is going to take a level in bard, though, if only because prestige classes that advance spellcasting don't directly work with a gloura's casting.

[Dread_Head]

Take a one level dip in cleric (or some other class that grants Turn Undead) and take the Divine Might feat to get Cha to damage?

[Troacctid]

To be fair re: Swordsage, it effectively has full BAB thanks to the +1 attack from Weapon Focus.

[glitterbaby]

DFI can be sonic damage by being descended from a pyroclastic dragon (Draconomicon p. 182). Almost nothing resists sonic damage. And you can amp up your damage output via the spell creaking cacophony (Druid or Bard 3, Spell Compendium page 55) which gives everything in its area of effect sonic vulnerability, no save.

Alright so I guess it actually is a little better than I was giving it credit.


Does the Gloura give Bardic Music? If not, dip a level of Heartfire Fanner to get better BM than just taking straight Bard will get you.

It doesn't, no. That class is awfully nice. Throw some Chaos Music on that and you're working with fire.


Any gloura is going to take a level in bard, though, if only because prestige classes that advance spellcasting don't directly work with a gloura's casting.

Huh? Why does it work that way?

[ATHATH]

Any gloura is going to take a level in bard, though, if only because prestige classes that advance spellcasting don't directly work with a gloura's casting.
If you take a Bard ACF or substitution level that replaces your first use of Bardic Music, do you get to be treated as someone without Bardic Music for the purpose of Heartfire Fanner?

You can still take a level of Bard afterwards. I think 4 levels of Bardic Music are worth the loss of a spellcasting level.

[Troacctid]

If you take a Bard ACF or substitution level that replaces your first use of Bardic Music, do you get to be treated as someone without Bardic Music for the purpose of Heartfire Fanner?

You can still take a level of Bard afterwards. I think 4 levels of Bardic Music are worth the loss of a spellcasting level.

In theory, sure, but I don't think any such ACFs or substitution levels exist.

[MisterKaws]

If you were at least one level higher, you'd be able to get the Gish signature weapon Thunderlance via Sublime Chord, followed by Abjurant Champion/Eldritch Knight, but I don't know anything worth mentioning for that level.

[glitterbaby]

If you were at least one level higher, you'd be able to get the Gish signature weapon Thunderlance via Sublime Chord, followed by Abjurant Champion/Eldritch Knight, but I don't know anything worth mentioning for that level.

Well I certainly will be heading that direction once I level up, which will happen rather quickly with the buyoff. Would Jade Phoenix Mage be better than Abjurant Champion or Eldritch Knight? For level twelve I'll be coming it at 10 with the LA already bought off. So I have Gloura HD 7 / Heartfire Fanner 1 so far and I'm thinking about just taking the minimum prereqs for Sublime Chord and then just allowing that to advance instead of trying to get as many Bard levels. So the other two levels I was thinking Warblade 1 / Jade Phoenix Mage 1. Then when I level I would dip Sublime Chord and then keep with JPM to continue advancing the casting while keeping a better chassis and a few maneuvers to boot. Is there something I'm not thinking of with this?

[Crake]

Any gloura is going to take a level in bard, though, if only because prestige classes that advance spellcasting don't directly work with a gloura's casting.

Yeah they would, the reason why you'd want to take bard is because many bard prestige classes advance bardic music in some way, or require bardic music to begin with, so it's good to have. That also answers someone else's question, no glouras do not come innately with bardic music, JUST the bard spellcasting.

[MisterKaws]

Well I certainly will be heading that direction once I level up, which will happen rather quickly with the buyoff. Would Jade Phoenix Mage be better than Abjurant Champion or Eldritch Knight? For level twelve I'll be coming it at 10 with the LA already bought off. So I have Gloura HD 7 / Heartfire Fanner 1 so far and I'm thinking about just taking the minimum prereqs for Sublime Chord and then just allowing that to advance instead of trying to get as many Bard levels. So the other two levels I was thinking Warblade 1 / Jade Phoenix Mage 1. Then when I level I would dip Sublime Chord and then keep with JPM to continue advancing the casting while keeping a better chassis and a few maneuvers to boot. Is there something I'm not thinking of with this?

Well, you'd be losing on the abjuration shenanigans and a possibly higher CL, but only that.