OOTS #1032 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Hamste]

Woo, new comic. Any idea what the thing shown at the end is?

[HalfTangible]

Welp, she's dead.

[Emperor Time]

I wonder what kind of creature that is there about to encounter.

[MoonCat]

The framing of that last panel immediately reminded me of the reveal of Ganji and Enor in 712 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0712.html), that's neat.

[3SecondCultist]

That's some interesting art for this ominous new character! The angle looks tricky too - well done Giant. Your art-fu has only grown stronger since this comic began

Edit: you know, I thought the reveal shot was familiar. Nice visual callback to Enor and Ganji. I wonder if we're ever going to see them again.

[Mordae]

Maybe he's just going to swoop in to say hi? Roll out the welcome wagon?

[Shining Wrath]

Since they are heading north, the flying mounted thing is behind them, and the sun must be to the south - yes, this is literally foreshadowing. :smallsmile:

And that is some real good exposition from Lien, there. "There wouldn't need to be Paladins if the world was, like, fair" may have to become a sig line. I shall ponder this critical decision.

Lien's boyfriend confirmed as living, all attempts to breed an uber-Paladin from O Chul and Lien must be suspended.

[Gift Jeraff]

Random encounter or a guardian of Kraagor's Tomb?

[Yxylu]

I can't tell what the rider is, but with the single horn and no apparent eyes, I'm assuming it's riding an yrthak.

[Quibblicious]

Look out!!

Nicely done...

[BowStreetRunner]

I can't tell what the rider is, but with the single horn and no apparent eyes, I'm assuming it's riding an yrthak.

Looks like you rolled higher on your knowledge check than I did.

[Shining Wrath]

Woo, new comic. Any idea what the thing shown at the end is?

Some form of White Dragon is my guess, ridden by a shaman or druid type from northern tribes. Hands and legs look humanoid, not skeletal or undead, so perhaps not a servant of Xykon.


Welp, she's dead.

No, she has a name and just fleshed out her backstory. Her death will have meaning. Plus, I would not bet on a single dragon-type creature against O-Chul. He's quite capable of re-enacting the end of Men In Black 1 and having the beast swallow him, then killing it from inside. :smallbiggrin:

[Darth Paul]

"Sometimes you're pleasantly surprised," indeed.

When will fictional characters ever learn to stop tempting fate?

Then again, supposing it turns out to be a surprise twist ally of some kind and we are pleasantly surprised? Oh, the suspense...

[littlebum2002]

A coincidence that this comic was released at lunchtime (in the US)? I think not.

Now pardon me I'm going get some kimchi.



He's quite capable of re-enacting the end of Men In Black 1 and having the beast swallow him, then killing it from inside. :smallbiggrin:

I doubt Rich would re-enact the exact scene where V killed the black dragon again.

[Quibblicious]

I can't tell what the rider is, but with the single horn and no apparent eyes, I'm assuming it's riding an yrthak.

Nice catch. Well played.

[Aegis J Hyena]

Aaaaaaand we have incoming. I ALMOST want to say it's one of the clerics from the Godsmoot (the one that was the link to the god of frost giants or something).

Is that a dragon it's riding? That was my first thought.

[Demonsul]

Is that a frost giant? I mean it looks like the guy from the Godsmoot, but he couldn't be here, could he?

EDIT: such ninjas, and anyway I'm wrong, since his hand isn't blue.

[Bluepaw]

Any guesses on the symbolism of the rider's cloak & hat?

[Sharoth]

~laughter~ Good one, Giant. (And a very good worldview to have.)

[KorvinStarmast]

- yes, this is literally foreshadowing. :smallsmile:
Groaning ...

"There wouldn't need to be Paladins if the world was, like, fair" It's well said, and I could swear that in panels 9 (that quote) and Panel 11 (about being pleasantly surprised out of ones pessimistic outlook) Lien was channeling someone: me for most of my life.

Lien's boyfriend confirmed as living, all attempts to breed an uber-Paladin from O Chul and Lien must be suspended. Hmmm, I hold out hope.

[Shining Wrath]

If it is a yrthak, those have a challenge of 9, so the rider is probably the main threat - also, the yrthak has blindsight with 120' radius, so it cannot detect the paladins without help from the rider.

Of course, Rich is free to have a yrthak with an effective CR of 215, but I'm guessing having two named paladins die a messy death after two strips of adorable character development is not gonna happen.

In fact, I'm not convinced this is an enemy.

[Edhelras]

Gah! Don't - don't - dont' say you're getting too old for this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0663.html)!!

[Shining Wrath]

Any guesses on the symbolism of the rider's cloak & hat?

Guessed shaman or druid, i.e., those have religious symbolism of some sort.

[Auburn Bright]

I like how it only took two comics to bump these two up to one of my favorite relationships in the entire series. After everything that's happened to them, it must be comforting to have each other.

It's too early for either of them to die, at least Lien. I'm looking forward to seeing them kick butt together instead. :smallbiggrin:

[ChillerInstinct]

Ruh-roh, the whole rundown of loved ones scene? If Elan were here I think he'd tell Lien to get down JUST out of tempting fate that hard. :P

Will be curious as to what exactly the rider is and what they're doing here. Definitely humanoid, and I THINK I can see the hint of a hairline on the left side. Could be a dwarf but, and this is just the perspective talking, looks a little on the taller side. Human or elf, maybe?

[Murk]

Unicorn Dragon!

It's probably friendly.

[Quibblicious]

Unicorn Dragon!

It's probably friendly.

Blind unicorn dragon.

No visible eyes.

Q

[Vectner]

I have a feeling she's gonna get bit in the ass for realz.

[Shining Wrath]

Blind unicorn dragon.

No visible eyes.

Q

Probably the beastie known as a yrthak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm).

[GAAD]

Ha! I share the same worldview - always expect the worst thing plausible - and then you're either happy (if you're wrong) or prepared (if you're right)! Lien just jumped way up my favorite character list.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Why do people insist on challenging Murphy, Avatar of the Universe, to do his worst?

Oh well, at least the results are entertaining. And educational.

[super dark33]

Yrthaks... a quick lookup shows that they shoot sonic beams out of they horn thing, and not acid like i remembered,

Thus negating me of a chance to use the pun reply "Ho ho, these paladins are about to go on an acid trip!"

[-Sentinel-]

Is Yunji a character we met before, or just some random dead paladin Rich just came up with?

[Yxylu]

Is Yunji a character we met before, or just some random dead paladin Rich just came up with?

She primarily appeared in the bonus material for War and XPs, but she was also in the Paladins Gone Wild scene in the throne room. She wasn't identified by name at that point.

Specifically, in comic 448, panel 4, she whacks Xykon with her axe.

[GAAD]

Is Yunji a character we met before, or just some random dead paladin Rich just came up with?

I believe she was in one of the bonus strips in W&XPs pretending to be on a date with another female paladin so she didn't have to hang out with Miko on New Year's Eve, and later making out with her date (much to Belkar's amusement).

[CoffeeIncluded]

Lien has a good head on her shoulders.

Also my answer would be real pizza, real pastrami, or my mom's chicken soup.

[NerdyKris]

Aaaaaaand we have incoming. I ALMOST want to say it's one of the clerics from the Godsmoot (the one that was the link to the god of frost giants or something).

Is that a dragon it's riding? That was my first thought.

All of the clerics at the godsmoot are still at the godsmoot. They can't leave.

[Killer Angel]

dun dun duuun!!!

I think I'm paladinesque, too.
If my town was destroyed, but me and all my beloved ones were alive, I would consider myself lucky.

[Shining Wrath]

Yrthaks... a quick lookup shows that they shoot sonic beams out of they horn thing, and not acid like i remembered,

Thus negating me of a chance to use the pun reply "Ho ho, these paladins are about to go on an acid trip!"

No, they are about to have sound reasons for engaging in combat.

[Jasdoif]

Ah yes....Kimchi, the prestige class for sauerkraut.


Why do people insist on challenging Murphy, Avatar of the Universe, to do his worst?One of Murphy's divine abilities is compelling people to challenge him, which he uses in his long-running practical joke against the Avatar of Self-Fulfilling Prophecies.

[Porthos]

No, they are about to have sound reasons for engaging in combat.

One might say that we heard this joke coming a mile away.

[Bird]

The High Priest of Thrym (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1012.html) also has a branch hat. Could this rider be another worshiper?

I also vaguely recall us seeing a dwarf with a branch hat at some point--does that ring a bell for anyone?

(Or, maybe branch hats are just stylish and I ought to get on the yrthak with everybody else.)

(Edit: ninja'd on possible Thrym connection by Aegis J Hyena.)

[8BitNinja]

Hey everyone, ready to start a new thread?

Wait, I'm the one who is late.

Anyway, I learned that life isn't fair, and that's why I'm around. I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad.

[Quibblicious]

Ah yes....Kimchi, the prestige class for sauerkraut.


That was beautiful.

Spoken as a fan of both sauerkraut and kimchi.

[Shining Wrath]

One might say that we heard this joke coming a mile away.

I wave off your objections.

[Quibblicious]

One might say that we heard this joke coming a mile away.

But no one saw it coming.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[Quibblicious]

Hey everyone, ready to start a new thread?

Wait, I'm the one who is late.

Anyway, I learned that life isn't fair, and that's why I'm around. I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad.

You should be happy. You have a purpose.

And as a bard, I'll compose a ballad of your feats.

If you were a halfling, I'd compose a ballad of your feets.

Elves, lend me your ears!

Q

[FolcoTook]

One bite in the butt via air post...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Congratulations, Rich. In all my years, I have never seen this many Death Flags on the same page.

[Anarion]

The comic title seems to imply that an opportunity for XP gain is not a lucky opportunity. :smallconfused:

[8BitNinja]

You should be happy. You have a purpose.

And as a bard, I'll compose a ballad of your feats.

If you were a halfling, I'd compose a ballad of your feets.

Elves, lend me your ears!

Q

Thanks, and I'll be the meat shield for you to stand behind

[Vinsfeld]

*dun dun DUUUUUUUN*

[8BitNinja]

*dun dun DUUUUUUUN*

What is Elan doing in the snowy mountains?

[AvatarVecna]

Loving the Tarantino'ing going on in this one, especially with how it leads into her line about how the world wouldn't need paladins if it was a fair place where things turn out good.

[ti'esar]

Oooooo, a yrthak! One of my favorite lesser-known D&D monsters.

[Jasdoif]

The comic title seems to imply that an opportunity for XP gain is not a lucky opportunity. :smallconfused:Well, the final panel has Lien talking about being pleasantly surprised. Surprises that lead to XP gain have a tendency to be unpleasant.

[zimmerwald1915]

Also my answer would be real pizza, real pastrami, or my mom's chicken soup.
Overstuffed pastrami-corned beef-chopped liver sandwich on rye with brown mustard and red onions.

I have no illusions about my heart lasting past 40, might as well make the most of it :smallwink:

[Shining Wrath]

OTOH, maybe the title refers to the world being unfair; maybe something fair is about to happen.

[Toper]

I wave off your objections.
Aural the posts here going to be like this?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Overstuffed pastrami-corned beef-chopped liver sandwich on rye with brown mustard and red onions.

I have no illusions about my heart lasting past 40, might as well make the most of it :smallwink:

Please stop, you're making me homesick.

[M0rdecai[QC]]

The Yrthak is clearly the reincarnation of Trigak and that means the rider must be Redcloak's Niece in polymorphed form.

[EccentricFellow]

Hmmmm. An undead Unicorn-Dragon with unidentifiable horned mystery rider looms into sight during a discussion of fermented foods. I am guessing they want to chime in on what food they miss the most. Not even the dead can resist the power of polls.

[137beth]

;20632791']The Yrthak is clearly the reincarnation of Trigak and that means the rider must be Redcloak's Niece in polymorphed form.

Is she also Haley's celestial mother?

[Peelee]

Giant, if you put more references to Korean culture in, I think I may finally get my wife to read your opus.

See also: still diggin' the icy motif. I think this might be my favorite arc.

[zimmerwald1915]

Please stop, you're making me homesick.
I'm sorry.

[8BitNinja]

Aural the posts here going to be like this?

All these threads now are just strings of puns

[Quibblicious]

Thanks, and I'll be the meat shield for you to stand behind

Thank goodness. i was worried my guitar might get damaged!

Q

[WindStruck]

I'd say... maybe an undead or cold-type yrthak... and the rider is a Cold Rider?

[Baphomet]

If it is a yrthak, those have a challenge of 9
Why does it have a CR of 9? I mean, I see that it does, but it's got 12 HD, good mobility, some useful abilities...I'll never understand how they calculate CR. In any case, neither of these pallies have much ranged capability, but it looks like the Yrthak's bread and butter is flying overhead and strafing things. This is not a favorable matchup.

[Quibblicious]

All these threads now are just strings of puns

There can be only Pun.

[8BitNinja]

Why does it have a CR of 9? I mean, I see that it does, but it's got 12 HD, good mobility, some useful abilities...I'll never understand how they calculate CR. In any case, neither of these pallies have much ranged capability, but it looks like the Yrthak's bread and butter is flying overhead and strafing things. This is not a favorable matchup.

This reminds me of when Spoony talked about the time he had a TPK with a dragon

[rodneyAnonymous]

Why does it have a CR of 9? [...] I'll never understand how they calculate CR.

Not that I understand the calculation, either, but I bet being blind outside a 120' radius factors heavily. (Yrthak behavior and tactics mitigate that problem, but it's a huge drawback.)

ETA: We both use "Satan" (sort of) avatars. Yay!

[Nemirthel]

Not that I understand the calculation, either, but I bet being blind outside a 120' radius factors heavily. (Yrthak behavior and tactics mitigate that problem, but it's a huge drawback.)

ETA: We both use "Satan" (sort of) avatars. Yay!

Though in this case the rider would negate the blindness. The major threat here is definitely going to be the yrthak rider, not the yrthak itself.

[8BitNinja]

I think CR is mean of stats times total sum of saving throw scores plus net worth divided by 2 times 0 plus whatever TSR make up

CR=St(S)+w/2(0)+TSR

be sure to write this down kids :smallbiggrin:

[TheCat]

It is turmeric, not tumeric

[8BitNinja]

It is turmeric, not tumeric

I think it's tewmorik :smallsmile:

[Sermil]

Wow, I didn't know my mother-in-law was Lien's boyfriend's aunt! We're nearly related!

[ReaderAt2046]

I just wanted to say how incredibly heartwarming that list of all the people who made it out OK was. :smallsmile:

[KorvinStarmast]

I think CR is mean of stats times total sum of saving throw scores plus net worth divided by 2 times 0 plus whatever TSR make up

CR=St(S)+w/2(0)+TSR

be sure to write this down kids :smallbiggrin:Only if you spell TSR as WoTC. (CR didn't arrive until after WoTC picked up the franchise ...)

[Shining Wrath]

Aural the posts here going to be like this?

To an eerie degree, yes.


All these threads now are just strings of puns

Puns don't come in strings; they come in pungent bags.


Why does it have a CR of 9? I mean, I see that it does, but it's got 12 HD, good mobility, some useful abilities...I'll never understand how they calculate CR. In any case, neither of these pallies have much ranged capability, but it looks like the Yrthak's bread and butter is flying overhead and strafing things. This is not a favorable matchup.

Which is why I said Rich can give it an EFFECTIVE CR of 215; if a monster has one weird trick that the party can't stop, it can kill them all (or force them to run, and I don't see anywhere to go).


There can be only Pun.

No, there can only be Pun-Pun. Once there is a Pun-Pun, he prevents another Pun-Pun from arising.

[Kantaki]

Is she also Haley's celestial mother?

:smallconfused:I thought Haley’s mom was a dragon...:smallconfused: Or could have been both? A... draconic celestial or something like that?:smalltongue:

That food discussion made me hungry.
If I could wish for something to eat I would choose a pizza spaghetti.

And of course that giant unicorn bat thingy and its rider appear right after our paladins talk about friends and family and their view on life. Haven't they learned anything from Elan?:smallsigh::smallbiggrin:

[Quibblicious]

No, there can only be Pun-Pun. Once there is a Pun-Pun, he prevents another Pun-Pun from arising.

Which would be an appropriate pun-ishment.

If you'll excuse me, I have a bun in the oven and it's time to turn a phrase.

Q

[Bulldog Psion]

Yrthak rider -- nice. :smallsmile:

Why are Rich's thread smilies often quite different from my reactions to the comics? This smiley :smallsmile: is my reaction to 1032. :smallconfused:

[internisus]

I absolutely love how O-Chul stops walking to listen more carefully to Lien and she winds up in front. It's a lovely, subtle bit of storytelling that expresses something of his character and their dynamic, and it's also a seamless bit of comics craftsmanship since it changes the speakers' reading order within each panel. Just a tiny, wonderful piece of work.

[Tvtyrant]

Woo, new comic. Any idea what the thing shown at the end is?
It is someone riding a yrthak. Which is cool, because like the Ravid I have never hears of someone using one.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm

[Porthos]

All these threads now are just strings of puns

I hear ya. Still, it's much better then when these threads were full of sound and fury.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That was an interesting discussion about how the Paladin's feel about the fall of Azure City. I wonder if the thing in the last panel is part of Kraagor's Tomb or an unrelated issue.

[Porthos]

It is turmeric, not tumeric


I think it's tewmorik :smallsmile:

So good to see teamwork in action on the forums. :smallsmile: OK, now that's a pun as opposed to wordplay. :p

------


That was an interesting discussion about how the Paladin's feel about the fall of Azure City. I wonder if the thing in the last panel is part of Kraagor's Tomb or an unrelated issue.

Getting serious for a moment, I wouldn't be surprised to see that this is a fake out of sorts and this guy will ultimately turn out to be non-hostile. Not necessarily friendly, per se. But, dunno. Might be a guardian/watcher of the plains type deal instead of a hunter looking for prey.

[Peelee]

I hear ya. Still, it's much better then when these threads were full of sound and fury.

It's much better than the last webcomic I read; it was a tale told by an idiot.

[RblDiver]

Looks dressed very similarly to the high priest of Fenrir (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). As to what he's riding, my first thought was "Dragon Narwhal" :P

[zimmerwald1915]

It's much better than the last webcomic I read; it was a tale told by an idiot.
This one even signifies something!

[One Skunk Todd]

The cloak pattern kind of looks like four eyes to me. And I have this vague recollection that Wrecan's shield design indicated the four eyes of his god (demigod?). Does that seem possible?

[LordRahl6]

This one even signifies something!

Yeah, there's a definite DUN DUN DUN! feel to the ending though the food bit was fun.:smallbiggrin:

[KorvinStarmast]

The cloak pattern kind of looks like four eyes to me. And I have this vague recollection that Wrecan's shield design indicated the four eyes of his god (demigod?). Does that seem possible?
Wrecan's shield has four dots arranged in a square (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html). Wrecan is bodyguard for Veldrina whose gods are from (or are voting with) the Western Pantheon. I was under the impression that Wrecan was from the same land as Veldrina. (It's the end of the world and my wife and kids are on the other side of it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html)).


That rider's cloak has what looks like tiger stripes.

So wrong continent's gods, and stylistically not very close (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0989.html).

[Bird]

Looks dressed very similarly to the high priest of Fenrir (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). As to what he's riding, my first thought was "Dragon Narwhal" :P
Good eye. This character & Fenrir's HP do both have those claw mark-ish shaped double red lines, yeah.

[Jolly Giant]

The beast is clearly an yrthak, but the coloration (they're usually green) makes me think it's an undead one. It might be zombified by the rider, for instance; in which case the rider is most likely a cleric. We know the clerics at the Godsmoot are stuck there, but one of them could've contacted colleague with a Sending spell, perhaps.

Yrthaks are huge size, so it looks to me like the rider might be large. Probably not a frostgiant, because it would've had blue hands, but it could be some other kind of giant. Maybe one of those kinda-large-but-not-really giants they introduced in Races of Stone? We did see one outside the Godsmoot, didn't we?

Edit: Yes, the guard at the entrance was definitely one of those not-really-large giants whose name continues to elude me. However, it has gray hands, whereas the rider has brown hands.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yrthaks are huge size, so it looks like the rider might be large. Probably not a frostgiant, because it would've had blue hands, but it could be some other kind of giant. Maybe one of those kinda-large-but-not-really giants they introduced in Races of Stone? We did see one outside the Godsmoot, didn't we? Or a Goliath.

[Jolly Giant]

Or a Goliath.

Ah yes, that's what they're called! Thank you, not remembering the name was really starting to annoy me.

[Tobimaro]

Looks like Lien's world view is going to match her expectations. :smallamused:

I do have one question. What is a creature that is usually in temperate mountains doing in the frozen north? But, then again, that is the question about our two paladins as well. I am sure the Giant will reveal all soon.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

So, which one was Yunji?

[8BitNinja]

Yeah, there's a definite DUN DUN DUN! feel to the ending though the food bit was fun.:smallbiggrin:

Too bad Elan wasn't there

[StreamOfTheSky]

A Yrthak! I love those things. ....That's pretty much all I wanted to say.

[Sir_Norbert]

So, which one was Yunji?

With the axe in #448 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html) panels 4, 5, 6. Possibly also directly under "agree" in the last panel :(

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Guessed shaman or druid, i.e., those have religious symbolism of some sort.

Its either a powerful land druid with the arctic circle or a ranger. Maybe a ranger so we can have some badass bloodfeast killage.

[Shining Wrath]

The headgear on the rider is not the same as that of the HPo Fenrir, though. And Fenrir's HP is a monster, which makes sense for the god of monsters, whereas this rider could easily be a humanoid - no tail, no claws on the hands.

The perspective isn't perfect for judging size but I would guess medium rather than large.

I think what we have here is a shaman of a tribe who dwell near the pole, and possibly not hostile (or, not hostile once he learns the paladins aren't in league with Team Evil who have probably caused troubles for the tribe).

[littlebum2002]

Looks dressed very similarly to the high priest of Fenrir (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). As to what he's riding, my first thought was "Dragon Narwhal" :P

I must be missing something here: How is a guy dressed in a black cloak "dressed similarly" to a guy dressed in a white cloak? I literally cannot find one similar article of clothing between these two. In my mind "wearing two completely different things" isn't usually referred to as "dressed similarly"

[WindStruck]

So to all the people talking about CR.... isn't CR calculated for a party of four? :smallconfused:

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Wow, I didn't know my mother-in-law was Lien's boyfriend's aunt! We're nearly related!

What do you mean? Are you talking about O-Chul's aunt? 'Cause they aren't related.

[foobar1969]

The beast is clearly an yrthak, but the coloration (they're usually green) makes me think it's an undead one.

Rich usually draws zombies with damage marks (see #0300) so I'd guess an arctic-variant yrthak.


Yrthaks are huge size, so it looks to me like the rider might be large.


Good eye. This character & Fenrir's HP do both have those claw mark-ish shaped double red lines, yeah.

Agree, the art points to a monstrous humanoid or lesser giant that worships Fenrir.


I must be missing something here: How is a guy dressed in a black cloak "dressed similarly" to a guy dressed in a white cloak?

Furs, animal headgear, and red stripe war paint.

[t209]

So is Lien describing Pho or some Vietnamese Dish that I didn't know about?

[Kish]

What do you mean? Are you talking about O-Chul's aunt? 'Cause they aren't related.
Check the seventh panel.

[8BitNinja]

Its either a powerful land druid with the arctic circle or a ranger. Maybe a ranger so we can have some badass bloodfeast killage.

I personally hope it's a ranger too. I always thought that rangers were cool, and they are my second favorite class.

[littlebum2002]

Furs, animal headgear, and red stripe war paint.

So black fur with a skull headgear is similar to white fur with antler headgear?

Oh well, I guess we just have different definitions of the word "similar". To me the HPoFenrir looks like Nale's version of an "evil opposite" of this guy.

[RabanoDOOM]

Okay, that does it. I love these two too much to allow them to remain fictional characters any longer. All in favor of calling forth the dark powers of cthulhu to make Lien and O-Chul real, I will see you in the ritual chamber.

[zimmerwald1915]

So to all the people talking about CR.... isn't CR calculated for a party of four? :smallconfused:
CR is a property of the encountered creature. EL [encounter level] fluctuates based on party size.

[Doorhandle]

Okay, that does it. I love these two too much to allow them to remain fictional characters any longer. All in favor of calling forth the dark powers of cthulhu to make Lien and O-Chul real, I will see you in the ritual chamber.

They're paladins though, i'm not sure they'd appreciate dark powers being used. :D

I'm kinda a look forward to see Lien's reaction to the Yrthak-rider though: Like, will she be genuinely surprised, mad that she let her guard down, or just quietly resigned as she suggests?

Also Yrthak are a favorite monster of mine: Weird enough that even old players will look at it in confusion, but normal enough that it doesn't seem like you just cobbled a bunch of random nouns together.

[Peelee]

CR is a property of the encountered creature. EL [encounter level] fluctuates based on party size.

I think he's saying that people are claiming they should be able to handle a CR9 monster, but because CR is based on the idea of a 4-person party, the EL would be higher for them.

[Mandor]

Not sure who's crashing the party. The hand looks like it's probably a human or humanoid, but I suppose there could be some alternate version of a goblin or orc out there. The cloak and helmet seem kind of shaman-y, to my eyes at least, but could just be some kind of northern warlord crest. No visible eyes on the drake/dragon is a bit disconcerting but that MAY just be a result of the angle we're seeing it from. Possibly the eye ridges just blend in.

[EDIT: I'd never heard of Yrkthak's before. My last tabletop gaming session was 1992, and they weren't in sources from that time. But having googled the term, it certainly seems to fit]

I like Lien's line about no one guaranteeing the world was fair. Reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from Babylon 5.

"Babylon 5: A Late Delivery from Avalon (#3.13)" (1996)
Marcus Cole: "I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life *were* fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?' So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."

[ti'esar]

I like Lien's line about no one guaranteeing the world was fair. Reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from Babylon 5.

"Babylon 5: A Late Delivery from Avalon (#3.13)" (1996)
Marcus Cole: "I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, 'wouldn't it be much worse if life *were* fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?' So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."

Weird. I was actually thinking of that same quote. Given the source of the Giant's name, a relationship isn't impossible (though it's not likely).

[SunnyFox]

Yrthaks... a quick lookup shows that they shoot sonic beams out of they horn thing, and not acid like i remembered,

Thus negating me of a chance to use the pun reply "Ho ho, these paladins are about to go on an acid trip!"

You'll just have to sound out other options for your puns...

Good cliffhanger, Giant. Please don't let Lien die, she's awesomesauce.

[8BitNinja]

Yrthaks... a quick lookup shows that they shoot sonic beams out of they horn thing, and not acid like i remembered,

Thus negating me of a chance to use the pun reply "Ho ho, these paladins are about to go on an acid trip!"

I've never thought of paladins as the type who take illicit drugs

[Peelee]

I've never thought of paladins as the type who take illicit drugs

Maybe D&D acid is licit?

[ReturnOfTheKing]

Great strip! Lien and O-Chul are officially my favourite characters now :smallbiggrin:

Also, can't wait for imminent badass fight scene.

[KillingAScarab]

A Yrthak! I love those things. ....That's pretty much all I wanted to say.

I'd say... maybe an undead or cold-type yrthak...
I do have one question. What is a creature that is usually in temperate mountains doing in the frozen north?The yrthak is certainly non-standard, but that's absolutely fine by me because it's a yrthak and they don't get enough use. I'm anticipating this!


Any guesses on the symbolism of the rider's cloak & hat?I predict this is actually San (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Mononoke), who has come out to ward them off from getting too close to one mystical place or another. She traded in her raised-by-wolves background for a new cervine look after her and Asitaka's* adventure with the deer god.
*Intentional misspelling to avoid censorship


I'll never understand how they calculate CR.You and I both.

In any case, neither of these pallies have much ranged capability,...that we know of. They mentioned stopping in Cliffport and getting a cloak for O-Chul. He also didn't have any armor when they departed from that island off the coast of the Western Continent, but has some now. We don't know what else they may have picked up.


I just wanted to say how incredibly heartwarming that list of all the people who made it out OK was. :smallsmile:

I absolutely love how O-Chul stops walking to listen more careful to Lien and she winds up in front. It's a lovely, subtle bit of storytelling that expresses something of his character and their dynamic, and it's also a seamless bit of comics craftsmanship since it changes the speakers' reading order within each panel. Just a tiny, wonderful piece of work.This was a very enjoyable scene. Another nice touch was that they both stand still for a panel. They aren't rushing off to danger at full-tilt just because they know they're getting closer to a destination.


I think I'm paladinesque, too.Paladinesque 1: Paladinesque, Too? (http://hrwiki.org/wiki/Dangeresque_%28film_series%29)
Do do
chugga chugga chugga
Do do do do!

[Slayer Lord]

Hurray for new chapters!

Does anyone else find the different ways their cloaks move in the wind strangely hypnotic?

[8BitNinja]

Maybe D&D acid is licit?

Is there a rulebook for that?

[IamWeasel]

I agree with those who think the beast is a yrthak.

I tend to lean to the rider being a Frost Giant. The horns are similar to Thrym Lord of Frost Giants, as is the style of cloak. I think the hands could be differently colored due to riding gloves, or maybe it's a more youthful skin tone for frost giants.

I am not a fan of cold or aquatic campaigns, but I am intrigued as to what is going on here. Despite being evil, I think a frost giant could be bargained or reasoned with, but I doubt Paladins will seek that option considering the frost giants are generally evil.

[Mandor]

Despite being evil, I think a frost giant could be bargained or reasoned with, but I doubt Paladins will seek that option considering the frost giants are generally evil.

Well the paladins in questions aren't She Who Must Not Be Named. And certainly O-Chul has been able to talk the MitD around to different ways of thinking. I give it at least even odds that he tries to talk unless the yrthak and rider come in guns-a-blazin'.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The contrast between Lien and O-Chul is nice. They get along well enough, but they're different. I hope we get to see more of them. You hear that, yrthak rider?
Speaking of whom, I'm amused by how many people assumed the yrthak was an undead due to its non-standard color scheme. My first assumption was that it was a cold-weather variant which probably exists in some sourcebook, and if not, it's not like Rich Burlew has ever felt restricted by that sort of thing.


And now onto random replies to arbitrary people who got to the thread before me!


Lien's boyfriend confirmed as living, all attempts to breed an uber-Paladin from O Chul and Lien must be suspended.
Listen here, son...a little issue like that ain't gonna stop the Shippers when they come a-callin'. When they've got their eyes on a couple they like, all your reason and logic and even the most powerful canon won't do anything about it. All you can do is run and hope they get bored before they do something unspeakable.


Okay, that does it. I love these two too much to allow them to remain fictional characters any longer. All in favor of calling forth the dark powers of cthulhu to make Lien and O-Chul real, I will see you in the ritual chamber.
Case in point.


Ruh-roh, the whole rundown of loved ones scene? If Elan were here I think he'd tell Lien to get down JUST out of tempting fate that hard. :P
This isn't something I thought I'd say, but...the Azure Guard could use some bards.


The comic title seems to imply that an opportunity for XP gain is not a lucky opportunity. :smallconfused:
It is lucky...for whoever gets the XP. Other side, not so much.


So to all the people talking about CR.... isn't CR calculated for a party of four? :smallconfused:
Indeed.
By using the guidelines for EL of multi-monster encounters, I estimate that a CR 9 creature alone is a decent challenge for two 11th-level characters, assuming that WotC made a balanced CR/EL system (it didn't), that all monsters involved have an appropriate CR (less common than you'd think), and that the two characters cover roughly the same bases as a standard fighter-rogue-wizard-cleric bunch (no primary casters).
Anyways, according to the Class and Level Geekery thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392439-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIII-Comic-As-Written-not-Comic-As-Intended), both paladins are at least level 12. A CR 9 yrthak with a CR 7 rider would be an EL 10 encounter (IIRC), "appropriate" for two 12th-level characters.


I tend to lean to the rider being a Frost Giant. The horns are similar to Thrym Lord of Frost Giants, as is the style of cloak. I think the hands could be differently colored due to riding gloves, or maybe it's a more youthful skin tone for frost giants.
The brown hair makes me doubt that, sensible as it would be. Don't frost giants have blue or white hair? Besides, I would expect riding gloves to be made out of roughly the same material (and hence have roughly the same color) as the rest of his clothing (cloak aside). It actually looks more like a hill giant to me, though I wouldn't rule out options like ogre or goliath just yet.

[KorvinStarmast]

Ah yes, that's what they're called! Thank you, not remembering the name was really starting to annoy me. I have the excuse of age, so I think I feel your pain. (Now where's that cleric with the cure wounds thing?)


They're paladins though, i'm not sure they'd appreciate dark powers being used. :D

I'm kinda a look forward to see Lien's reaction to the Yrthak-rider though: Like, will she be genuinely surprised, mad that she let her guard down, or just quietly resigned as she suggests?

Also Yrthak are a favorite monster of mine: Weird enough that even old players will look at it in confusion, but normal enough that it doesn't seem like you just cobbled a bunch of random nouns together.
Insofar as monster designs go, it's one of the larger turds WoTC dropped.
Think about the flying creature that can't see but that acts as a bird of prey.
No, it's not a bat eating insects, it "swoops from on high."
120' sensory range is about from home to first base, and a bit.
I don't know how much flying or soaring you have done, but that does NOT cut it for a flying creature.

Bad design. (In defense of the designer, the Sonic Attack is sorta cool, almost a Hawkwind tribute ...)

[Bird]

(In defense of the designer, the Sonic Attack is sorta cool, almost a Hawkwind tribute ...)
Plus, you can get a pretty good look (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ8aLRnd80k) at someone that way.

[davidbofinger]

flying creature that can't see but that acts as a bird of prey.

It's tempting to imagine it evolved somewhere it was always dark, or the atmosphere was opaque, or there was always mist. Or where all the prey animals had the instinctive ability to create visual illusions - that could be where displacer beasts come from.

[KillingAScarab]

I have the excuse of age, so I think I feel your pain.Wow, you have empathic transfer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/empathicTransfer.htm) from changing age categories? Are you a psioinic dragon?


Insofar as monster designs go, it's one of the larger turds WoTC dropped.
Think about the flying creature that can't see but that acts as a bird of prey.
No, it's not a bat eating insects, it "swoops from on high."
120' sensory range is about from home to first base, and a bit.
I don't know how much flying or soaring you have done, but that does NOT cut it for a flying creature.

Bad design. (In defense of the designer, the Sonic Attack is sorta cool, almost a Hawkwind tribute ...)I like the use of the yrthak here because not relying upon sight would be useful to the rider if they get caught in white-out conditions. I suppose there's also an argument to be made that blindsight range tells you the distances at which a creature can pinpoint other creatures, but may not be the absolute range of its non-visual senses. You don't need to be in a storm to hear the thunder which results. A yrthak would probably end up with a limited usable flight ceiling still, but if the "run" action can still be taken in the air, I doubt its 60' fly speed can overcome its senses to the point it becomes the George of the Jungle of airborne creatures, just the Mister Magoo.

Besides, if the range of its blindsight is from home plate to first base, it should be able to easily swoop into the bleachers for a snack. :smallsmile:


It's tempting to imagine it evolved somewhere it was always dark, or the atmosphere was opaque, or there was always mist. Or where all the prey animals had the instinctive ability to create visual illusions - that could be where displacer beasts come from.Well, a yrthak (and a displacer beast) is a magical beast, so natural selection doesn't have to have anything to do with it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html).


This isn't something I thought I'd say, but...the Azure Guard could use some bards.The paladin and bard character classes are largely mutually exclusive due to lawful/non-lawful alignment restrictions, respectively. I spent a lot of time looking over character build ideas for Neverwinter Nights. There was a page on the official site dedicated to builds people submitted, and there were so many which suggested progressing in paladin or bard then changing your alignment (because that's never a big deal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html), right?) so you could progress in the other class. Some of them even suggested this switch multiple times. I can't understand what they were thinking.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go and pick spells for a wizard/monk/arcane fist build I'm creating to emulate Ganondorf from Super Smash Bros. Melee and... huh, why is the Irony Detector going off?

[davidbofinger]

vague recollection that Wrecan's shield design indicated the four eyes of his god (demigod?). Does that seem possible?

It's possible, but Wrecan's shield looks an awful lot like an Indian Dhal shield: they had four small bosses in a square. So it probably isn't a design at all.

On the other hand if you want to think that a worshipper of a four-eyed god, given a shield with four bosses, would probably incorporate the bosses into a design, that's fair enough.

[DaggerPen]

Well, THAT looks bad.

I loved this conversation, though - it was really great getting to learn more about these two, and also to see the ongoing aftereffects of the invasion of Azure City.

[Knaight]

I suppose there's also an argument to be made that blindsight range tells you the distances at which a creature can pinpoint other creatures, but may not be the absolute range of its non-visual senses. You don't need to be in a storm to hear the thunder which results. A yrthak would probably end up with a limited usable flight ceiling still, but if the "run" action can still be taken in the air, I doubt its 60' fly speed can overcome its senses to the point it becomes the George of the Jungle of airborne creatures, just the Mister Magoo.

It vaguely looks like they were trying to suggest echolocation, but between never actually doing so and that piddly +4 racial listen bonus, it doesn't work out so hot.

[dtilque]

I think CR is mean of stats times total sum of saving throw scores plus net worth divided by 2 times 0 plus whatever TSR make up

CR=St(S)+w/2(0)+TSR

be sure to write this down kids :smallbiggrin:

Let me try that equation in my calculator ... hmmm..... what does +++divide by cucumber error+++ mean?

[8BitNinja]

Let me try that equation in my calculator ... hmmm..... what does +++divide by cucumber error+++ mean?
I think that means that the CR of the newest monster in 6E is chicken nugget

[Rogar Demonblud]

It means if you proceed with that equation, you'll rip a hole in spacetime and summon Chthulhu, who will be annoyed unless you have those little cucumber sandwiches he enjoys with his tea.

More on point, CR is rubbish because, among other things, most monsters weren't built right. Garbage in leads to garbage out.

[KillingAScarab]

It vaguely looks like they were trying to suggest echolocation, but between never actually doing so and that piddly +4 racial listen bonus, it doesn't work out so hot.While the vulnerability to sonic could also indicate echolocation, there's a bit in the description which states, "It senses sound and movement by means of a special organ on its long tongue." While this is a magical beast, there is precedent for additional sensing through a tongue. A Jacobson's organ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomeronasal_organ) is present in most snakes, which is given input via the tongue. However, pit vipers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_viper#Description) additionally have very accurate heat detection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_sensing_in_snakes) through non-visual means.

In spite of its detection of IR light, the IR detection mechanism is not similar to photoreceptors - while photoreceptors detect light via photochemical reactions, the protein in the pits of snakes is a "heat-sensitive ion channel" (actually a temperature sensitive ion channel). It senses infrared signals through a mechanism involving warming of the pit organ, rather than chemical reaction to light.Infrared detection could be useful in a tundra environment for finding things which aren't too heavily insulated, like two members of the Sapphire Guard with magic items which are generating as much heat around their bearers as their bodies are losing to their surroundings.


Let me try that equation in my calculator ... hmmm..... what does +++divide by cucumber error+++ mean?Perhaps you didn't give it enough time to ferment, so you don't have kimchi yet?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I like this new character already. Sooooo cool, even from the back.

[mikelibrarian]

Looks like Lien's world view is going to match her expectations. :smallamused:

I do have one question. What is a creature that is usually in temperate mountains doing in the frozen north? But, then again, that is the question about our two paladins as well. I am sure the Giant will reveal all soon.

If Belkar could fight 1-3 dire camels in a swamp, a Yrthak can be at the North Pole.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0564.html

[Finagle]

These paladins are ridiculous. Paladins are fascists who are never happy unless the entire world is suffering under their religious oppression. :smallfurious: Why are they being deliberately humanized like this?

Also I'm uncomfortable at the "generic Asian" tropes being portrayed here. Kimchi is culturally Korean and its use here can be considered as cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation typically involves members of a dominant group exploiting the culture of less privileged groups - often with little understanding of the latter’s history, experience and traditions. In the United States, where the author lives, cultural appropriation almost always involves members of the dominant culture (or those who identify with it) “borrowing” from the cultures of minority groups. Asians are generally one of the the victims targeted for cultural appropriation.

[Shining Wrath]

These paladins are ridiculous. Paladins are fascists who are never happy unless the entire world is suffering under their religious oppression. :smallfurious: Why are they being deliberately humanized like this?

Also I'm uncomfortable at the "generic Asian" tropes being portrayed here. Kimchi is culturally Korean and its use here can be considered as cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation typically involves members of a dominant group exploiting the culture of less privileged groups - often with little understanding of the latter’s history, experience and traditions. In the United States, where the author lives, cultural appropriation almost always involves members of the dominant culture (or those who identify with it) “borrowing” from the cultures of minority groups. Asians are generally one of the the victims targeted for cultural appropriation.

Slow clap

Gotta love the segue from troll #1, "Paladins are always oppressive", to troll #2, "Any white person in America writing about non-white people is guilty of cultural appropriation".

[shylocxs]

Sigh... I don't need any more death.

[KillingAScarab]

Also I'm uncomfortable at the "generic Asian" tropes being portrayed here. Kimchi is culturally Korean and its use here can be considered as cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation typically involves members of a dominant group exploiting the culture of less privileged groups - often with little understanding of the latter’s history, experience and traditions. In the United States, where the author lives, cultural appropriation almost always involves members of the dominant culture (or those who identify with it) “borrowing” from the cultures of minority groups. Asians are generally one of the the victims targeted for cultural appropriation....how dare a character with a Korean name make a positive comment about a Korean food?

This seems like a good time to bring up the Azurite Names (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275301-Azurite-names&p=14869587) thread wherein you may find a response from the author regarding the sources which inspired them (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14870801&postcount=14). I also found meto30's comments about possible pronunciations and meanings interesting.

[Coat]

I absolutely love how O-Chul stops walking to listen more carefully to Lien and she winds up in front. It's a lovely, subtle bit of storytelling that expresses something of his character and their dynamic, and it's also a seamless bit of comics craftsmanship since it changes the speakers' reading order within each panel. Just a tiny, wonderful piece of work.

If we were on the Erfworld forums, I'd tip you some schmuckers for that. Nice observation!
It's also a very real human touch - I've been on a lot of walks with conversations, and yeah, that's what happens.


If we're naming favourite foods, I go for smoked fish, plain home-made brown bread, chopped mustard greens, and clear cool water. Do I win the paladin-off?
I joke - but it is also the best meal in the world, when you are tired and hungry. Other things can be fun, but that is best.


I expect the rider to be an Orc, half-orc, or something like that. It's in the body-shape: the legs are too long for a dwarf, and the shoulders too wide and head too large relative to the body for a human or elf.

[Jay R]

Any guesses on the symbolism of the rider's cloak & hat?

More than anything else, I think they indicate that it's cold.


I do have one question. What is a creature that is usually in temperate mountains doing in the frozen north?

Strafing, I expect.

[The gF]

Lien's boyfriend confirmed as living, all attempts to breed an uber-Paladin from O Chul and Lien must be suspended.

clearly you don't understand the internet, and those who ship.

[Quibblicious]

It means if you proceed with that equation, you'll rip a hole in spacetime and summon Chthulhu, who will be annoyed unless you have those little cucumber sandwiches he enjoys with his tea.

More on point, CR is rubbish because, among other things, most monsters weren't built right. Garbage in leads to garbage out.

It works fine if you use CR as Compression Rating.

Nothing to do with any variant of D&D, but hey...

[Quibblicious]

These paladins are ridiculous. Paladins are fascists who are never happy unless the entire world is suffering under their religious oppression. :smallfurious: Why are they being deliberately humanized like this?

Also I'm uncomfortable at the "generic Asian" tropes being portrayed here. Kimchi is culturally Korean and its use here can be considered as cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation typically involves members of a dominant group exploiting the culture of less privileged groups - often with little understanding of the latter’s history, experience and traditions. In the United States, where the author lives, cultural appropriation almost always involves members of the dominant culture (or those who identify with it) “borrowing” from the cultures of minority groups. Asians are generally one of the the victims targeted for cultural appropriation.

Sometimes the "appropriation" is a sign of the excellence of what is "appropriated". I like various foods from all over the world because they're excellent foods -- Indian, Chinese, Thai, German, Italian, Irish, whatever. It's not appropriation, it's appreciation.

Frankly, I'd take it as "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

"Cultural Appropriation" is also a false flag; cultures have swapped ideas and numerous other elements since the beginning of time. The Romans took the Greek phalanx and revised it into the legion; the Japanese absorbed the Chinese idiomatic writing and revised it. The Greeks borrowed from the Persians who borrowed from the Egyptians. The Chinese borrowed from the Mongols and vice versa. The English borrowed from the French, who borrowed from the Germans and Spanish.

It's evolution. It's the way life works. Ideas, like genes, cross lines and become something new.

I suppose next you're going to start complaining about how the Eukaryota culturally appropriated cellular mechanisms from the eubacteria and archaebacteria.

Okay, rant over. My apologies. Maybe :smallwink:

[Quebbster]

Wrecan's shield has four dots arranged in a square (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html). Wrecan is bodyguard for Veldrina whose gods are from (or are voting with) the Western Pantheon. I was under the impression that Wrecan was from the same land as Veldrina. (It's the end of the world and my wife and kids are on the other side of it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html)).


That rider's cloak has what looks like tiger stripes.

So wrong continent's gods, and stylistically not very close (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0989.html).
We know Wrecan has been sent on missions for the Church of Marduk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0993.html) in the past, and Marduk just so happens to be the guy with four Eyes I Believe, so it's likely an intentional homage to his patron god.

[8BitNinja]

clearly you don't understand the internet, and those who ship.

The 8 Bit Ninja Clause of Fanfiction: Any person(s), animals, robots, eldritch horrors, or the like can and will be shipped with any of the others, even if they would have no reason of meeting or if they did meet, would probably fight to the death.

Please don't ship me with an antipaladin :smalleek:


Sometimes the "appropriation" is a sign of the excellence of what is "appropriated". I like various foods from all over the world because they're excellent foods -- Indian, Chinese, Thai, German, Italian, Irish, whatever. It's not appropriation, it's appreciation.

Frankly, I'd take it as "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

"Cultural Appropriation" is also a false flag; cultures have swapped ideas and numerous other elements since the beginning of time. The Romans took the Greek phalanx and revised it into the legion; the Japanese absorbed the Chinese idiomatic writing and revised it. The Greeks borrowed from the Persians who borrowed from the Egyptians. The Chinese borrowed from the Mongols and vice versa. The English borrowed from the French, who borrowed from the Germans and Spanish.

It's evolution. It's the way life works. Ideas, like genes, cross lines and become something new.

I suppose next you're going to start complaining about how the Eukaryota culturally appropriated cellular mechanisms from the eubacteria and archaebacteria.

Okay, rant over. My apologies. Maybe :smallwink:

I think that the original comment was either a troll comment or bait


Slow clap

Gotta love the segue from troll #1, "Paladins are always oppressive", to troll #2, "Any white person in America writing about non-white people is guilty of cultural appropriation".

As the internet people would say

Great bait mate, I rate 8/8

[Quibblicious]

I think that the original comment was either a troll comment or bait


Yes, yes, but as a Bard, I must express my opinions.

Next time I'll use free verse.

Q

[8BitNinja]

Yes, yes, but as a Bard, I must express my opinions.

Next time I'll use free verse.

Q

My dear Quibbilicious, Bards really are amazing creatures. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month and yet, after a hundred years, they can still surprise you.

[Quibblicious]

My dear Quibbilicious, Bards really are amazing creatures. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month and yet, after a hundred years, they can still surprise you.

Thank you. We aim to please. :smallbiggrin:

[8BitNinja]

Thank you. We aim to please. :smallbiggrin:

You're welcome, without you guys, who would continuously buff us melee fighters?

[Quibblicious]

You're welcome, without you guys, who would continuously buff us melee fighters?

True, plus who would write the ballads? And the Heroic epics?

Grendel wouldn't be anywhere near as famous and intimidating if it weren't for the bards telling the saga of Beowulf.

And Beowulf wouldn't be half as heroic.

Q

[PallentisLunam]

Character developement!! Beautiful.

Now more importantly, orc Druid riding aaaaaaaa, do white dragons have horns?

[Quibblicious]

True, plus who would write the ballads? And the Heroic epics?

Grendel wouldn't be anywhere near as famous and intimidating if it weren't for the bards telling the saga of Beowulf.

And Beowulf wouldn't be half as heroic.

Q

And we couldn't do all that if you meat shields didn't shield us :smallbiggrin:

[8BitNinja]

True, plus who would write the ballads? And the Heroic epics?

Grendel wouldn't be anywhere near as famous and intimidating if it weren't for the bards telling the saga of Beowulf.

And Beowulf wouldn't be half as heroic.

Q

It's good to have bard friends, or King Jerry wouldn't have hired us

[Quibblicious]

It's good to have bard friends, or King Jerry wouldn't have hired us

Darn it, I forgot about King Jerry.

[Wowlock]

You just can't escape the Murphy's Law O.o

[The gF]

Sometimes the "appropriation" is a sign of the excellence of what is "appropriated". I like various foods from all over the world because they're excellent foods -- Indian, Chinese, Thai, German, Italian, Irish, whatever. It's not appropriation, it's appreciation.

Frankly, I'd take it as "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

"Cultural Appropriation" is also a false flag; cultures have swapped ideas and numerous other elements since the beginning of time. The Romans took the Greek phalanx and revised it into the legion; the Japanese absorbed the Chinese idiomatic writing and revised it. The Greeks borrowed from the Persians who borrowed from the Egyptians. The Chinese borrowed from the Mongols and vice versa. The English borrowed from the French, who borrowed from the Germans and Spanish.

It's evolution. It's the way life works. Ideas, like genes, cross lines and become something new.

I suppose next you're going to start complaining about how the Eukaryota culturally appropriated cellular mechanisms from the eubacteria and archaebacteria.

Okay, rant over. My apologies. Maybe :smallwink:

No lies, though, I would kill to see a good parody Tumblr rant about eukaryotic genetic appropriation.

[Doug Lampert]

I agree with those who think the beast is a yrthak.

I tend to lean to the rider being a Frost Giant. The horns are similar to Thrym Lord of Frost Giants, as is the style of cloak. I think the hands could be differently colored due to riding gloves, or maybe it's a more youthful skin tone for frost giants.

I am not a fan of cold or aquatic campaigns, but I am intrigued as to what is going on here. Despite being evil, I think a frost giant could be bargained or reasoned with, but I doubt Paladins will seek that option considering the frost giants are generally evil.

Frost giants are an "often" alignment race. That means LESS THAN HALF have the listed alignment. That definition is in the MM under how to read a monster entry.

IIRC the definition also says that often alignments are usually cultural rather than inborn.

Finally, attacking someone based solely on their species is EVIL in D&D land. I don't know why you think the Paladins will act like LE characters rather than LG. Remember that Rich usually writes alignment by the rulebook, rather than basing his treatment of alignment on the demented ravings of people who think it's alright to kill people because they have green skin and fangs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html).

[Shining Wrath]

Character developement!! Beautiful.

Now more importantly, orc Druid riding aaaaaaaa, do white dragons have horns?

The sagacious Vxylu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20632374&postcount=10)has suggested a ythrak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm). I thought white dragon at first, but have come around to agreeing with Vxylu.

[Shining Wrath]

It's good to have bard friends, or King Jerry wouldn't have hired us

Following the Internet tradition of random shipping, I must now tell the two of you to get a room.

[Quibblicious]

Following the Internet tradition of random shipping, I must now tell the two of you to get a room.

You're looking very handsome...

[Vigiles]

Some form of White Dragon is my guess, ridden by a shaman or druid type from northern tribes. Hands and legs look humanoid, not skeletal or undead, so perhaps not a servant of Xykon.

The bone headdress (antlers) and red claw-like accents to the wardrobe seem reminicient of a priest of Fenrir, God of Monsters.

Just a theory.

[GrayGriffin]

No lies, though, I would kill to see a good parody Tumblr rant about eukaryotic genetic appropriation.

How about we not make fun of cultural appropriation, which is actually a serious issue? Congratulations to the troll for accomplishing his goal and getting you guys to diminish it, I guess.

[littlebum2002]

Sometimes the "appropriation" is a sign of the excellence of what is "appropriated". I like various foods from all over the world because they're excellent foods -- Indian, Chinese, Thai, German, Italian, Irish, whatever. It's not appropriation, it's appreciation.

Frankly, I'd take it as "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

"Cultural Appropriation" is also a false flag; cultures have swapped ideas and numerous other elements since the beginning of time. The Romans took the Greek phalanx and revised it into the legion; the Japanese absorbed the Chinese idiomatic writing and revised it. The Greeks borrowed from the Persians who borrowed from the Egyptians. The Chinese borrowed from the Mongols and vice versa. The English borrowed from the French, who borrowed from the Germans and Spanish.

It's evolution. It's the way life works. Ideas, like genes, cross lines and become something new.

I suppose next you're going to start complaining about how the Eukaryota culturally appropriated cellular mechanisms from the eubacteria and archaebacteria.

Okay, rant over. My apologies. Maybe :smallwink:

I can think of lots of terrible, terrible things the cultures you mentioned engaged in (I'll refrain from mentioning those things bc that would probably violate the rules). Saying "ancient cultures did this, therefore it's an ok thing to do" is a terrible argument. In fact, considering the amount of terrible things those cultures did, saying they did something is probably a pretty good reason to AVOID doing that thing.

I've also noticed it's usually the cultures who do the appropriation who talk about how good it is, not the cultures that are appropriated from. Isn't that interesting.

[Mathguy]

Frost giants are an "often" alignment race. That means LESS THAN HALF have the listed alignment. That definition is in the MM under how to read a monster entry.

IIRC the definition also says that often alignments are usually cultural rather than inborn.

Finally, attacking someone based solely on their species is EVIL in D&D land. I don't know why you think the Paladins will act like LE characters rather than LG. Remember that Rich usually writes alignment by the rulebook, rather than basing his treatment of alignment on the demented ravings of people who think it's alright to kill people because they have green skin and fangs.

Yes, but Azure City paladins, specifically, have been guilty of this in the past with their anti-goblin raids. That was a previous generation, though, so maybe O-Chul and Lien are wiser.

[Hamste]

Character developement!! Beautiful.

Now more importantly, orc Druid riding aaaaaaaa, do white dragons have horns?

I'm not sure about it being an orc. Many of them seem to be greenish which the rider doesn't. I think it is more likely the race is the same as whatever the High Priest of Fenrir is as there definitely seem to be a few similarities between them (Both wear animal skins reminiscent of each other and have similar dark colored hair. Could be a religious thing though.) as well as Fenrir being the god of monsters which goes well with the new person riding a yrthak (Which are intelligent but normally can't speak). Also important to note is that we pretty sure the High priest of Fenrir is not a regular orc, orcs have under bites while the priest had an over bite, was not really green and a tail (Though the tail might be a granted ability from their god).

[8BitNinja]

Following the Internet tradition of random shipping, I must now tell the two of you to get a room.


You're looking very handsome...

Okay guys, when I said I like bards, I did not mean I was attraacted to Quibbilicious (no offense)

Save me from the internet!

[The gF]

How about we not make fun of cultural appropriation, which is actually a serious issue? Congratulations to the troll for accomplishing his goal and getting you guys to diminish it, I guess.

I hate to argue this here, but there are literally people who try to make the argument that tanning and eating Mexican food are cultural appropriation. I agree that it's an issue worth addressing, but I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to poke fun at the (many many many) people who overdo it and hurt their own cause. At what point does the fight against cultural appropriation become social segregation? Some people are taking the obsession with this issue too far, which is what we're making fun of. Frankly, as Quibb outlined, cultural appropriation is really NOT a problem-- people just use the term when they mean cultural theft, which is a problem.

Regardless, asking people on a comic board not to find humor in absurdity is kind of absurd. Which in turn might actually make it humorous. This demands further study.

Moving on, I find it interesting that while Lien's philosophy of life is refreshing to me, it is perhaps not uncommon to the setting. It boils down to "Don't get mad, use that energy on solving the problem", which is something we've seen before, though admittedly it has once been taken too far. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html)

I suppose that in a setting where your problems tend to come down to a large or powerful entity that you can kill at the end of the day, it feels like a much more useful philosophy. When your problem is crippling debt in a system that seems designed to keep you from overcoming it, sometimes getting mad and letting off some steam is the only way to get through the day without breaking down.

[ratfox]

Boyfriend? Boyfriend??

Noooooo, my poor ship!!1!

[Coat]

I suppose that in a setting where your problems tend to come down to a large or powerful entity that you can kill at the end of the day, it feels like a much more useful philosophy. When your problem is crippling debt in a system that seems designed to keep you from overcoming it, sometimes getting mad and letting off some steam is the only way to get through the day without breaking down.

A wise woman once said "There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was like, fair!"

Maybe the world needs more Paladins.

[The gF]

A wise woman once said "There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was like, fair!"

Maybe the world needs more Paladins.

I dunno, the ones we have aren't helping. :V Maybe the world just needs BETTER paladins.

[KorvinStarmast]

How about we not make fun of cultural appropriation, which is actually a serious issue? No, it isn't serious, it's a false flag that people who don't understand human history hide behind when they want to whine about something. Culture is dynamic, not static.

We know Wrecan has been sent on missions for the Church of Marduk in the past, and Marduk just so happens to be the guy with four Eyes I Believe, so it's likely an intentional homage to his patron god. Is Marduk a Western Continent God? I think he is, but may not be remembering correctly.

Following the Internet tradition of random shipping, I must now tell the two of you to get a room. Yeah, they can commence with all of the buffing they like in private.

[Quibblicious]

Okay guys, when I said I like bards, I did not mean I was attraacted to Quibbilicious (no offense)

Save me from the internet!

Can't help you there.

Should I call you a paladin? Oh... never mind...

Q

[8BitNinja]

Can't help you there.

Should I call you a paladin? Oh... never mind...

Q

Just because I'm a Paladin, doesn't mean I can singlehandedly take on the internet

Let me put it this way, Q, you are a great guy, but there is now way that I would want to be in a relationship with you

You can't do anything now, shippers!

[Gift Jeraff]

Stop culturally appropriating the English language.

[8BitNinja]

Yeah, they can commence with all of the buffing they like in private.

Playground, what are you doing to me?

[Memoria]

While the flying creature is pretty obviously a yrthak, I think the "arctic variant" is equally obviously the half-dragon template (white dragon, specifically). Yrthaks are not traditionally drawn with frilled ears, that's something that probably wouldn't come from some generic "slap a cold subtype on it and call it a day" template.

Meanwhile everything "wrong" about the yrthak fits the half-dragon template. Dragon ears, white coloration, and being in the wrong environment - the half-dragon template even says, right under environment, "Same as either the base creature or the dragon variety."

Which would give this nasty creature essentially *two* breath weapons: the yrthak's long range single target sonic lance (with optional explosion mode) and a closer range cold damage AOE/cone.

[GrayGriffin]

I hate to argue this here, but there are literally people who try to make the argument that tanning and eating Mexican food are cultural appropriation. I agree that it's an issue worth addressing, but I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to poke fun at the (many many many) people who overdo it and hurt their own cause. At what point does the fight against cultural appropriation become social segregation? Some people are taking the obsession with this issue too far, which is what we're making fun of. Frankly, as Quibb outlined, cultural appropriation is really NOT a problem-- people just use the term when they mean cultural theft, which is a problem.

Regardless, asking people on a comic board not to find humor in absurdity is kind of absurd. Which in turn might actually make it humorous. This demands further study.

I find it funny how fast you are to play the "you don't have a sense of humor" card. Are you aware of the concept of "punching up" and "punching down"?

Also, "cultural appropriation is really NOT a problem-- people just use the term when they mean cultural theft, which is a problem." Gee, do you know what the word "synonym" means?

[Quibblicious]

I find it funny how fast you are to play the "you don't have a sense of humor" card. Are you aware of the concept of "punching up" and "punching down"?

Also, "cultural appropriation is really NOT a problem-- people just use the term when they mean cultural theft, which is a problem." Gee, do you know what the word "synonym" means?

For the sake of clarity, define both cultural appropriation and cultural theft, please.

I'd like to understand how you see this.

Q

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Aquatosic]

If I had that genie around, I would so order sweet potato cheesecake and a mug of good, salty chicken noodle soup.

Seriously though, it is amazing how well sweet potato and cheesecake go together. I would never have believed it until I found that food truck in Atlantic City.

And also, on the subject of the Kimchi thing. I'm not sure if it excuses it, but Azure City has always kind of been a parody of generic "Far East"/"Japanese" settings. That it haphazardly blends a bunch of different cultural stereotypes and traits from around Asia, arriving at a place that has both ninjas, junks and kimchi is kind of the whole point Whether or not this is acceptable is another question, but not one that is going to really affect my enjoyment of the comic

[zimmerwald1915]

If I had that genie around, I would so order sweet potato cheesecake and a mug of good, salty chicken noodle soup.

Seriously though, it is amazing how well sweet potato and cheesecake go together. I would never have believed it until I found that food truck in Atlantic City.
Pumpkin's good in cheesecake too, for much the same reason.

[8BitNinja]

If I had that genie around, I would so order sweet potato cheesecake and a mug of good, salty chicken noodle soup.

Seriously though, it is amazing how well sweet potato and cheesecake go together. I would never have believed it until I found that food truck in Atlantic City.

And also, on the subject of the Kimchi thing. I'm not sure if it excuses it, but Azure City has always kind of been a parody of generic "Far East"/"Japanese" settings. That it haphazardly blends a bunch of different cultural stereotypes and traits from around Asia, arriving at a place that has both ninjas, junks and kimchi is kind of the whole point Whether or not this is acceptable is another question, but not one that is going to really affect my enjoyment of the comic

If I had a genie around, I would wish for unlimited wishes

[littlebum2002]

If I had that genie around, I would so order sweet potato cheesecake and a mug of good, salty chicken noodle soup.

Seriously though, it is amazing how well sweet potato and cheesecake go together. I would never have believed it until I found that food truck in Atlantic City.


I think I would have to go with Nasi Goreng or Tom Kha Gai, although kimchi isn't a bad choice.

Man asian cultures have some amazing dishes.

[8BitNinja]

I think I would have to go with Nasi Goreng or Tom Kha Gai, although kimchi isn't a bad choice.

Man asian cultures have some amazing dishes.

Have you tried all types of curry?

No one has

[Aquatosic]

If I had a genie around, I would wish for unlimited wishes

This is the food-only genie though

[littlebum2002]

Have you tried all types of curry?

No one has

Same with kimchi, at least acording to Lien.

Anyway, all curries are great in their own way, but as long as you have massaman before you die you're good to go.

[PallentisLunam]

Have you tried all types of curry?

No one has

I have tried to try all different types of curry.

Does that count?

[Shining Wrath]

If I'm asking the food genie for food, especially in the polar regions, I'm probably going with a big old slab of prime rib (with nicely herbed crust), some grilled asparagus, and a baked potato roughly the size of my head. Butter and bacon bits, no sour cream or chives, TYVM genie.

[GrayGriffin]

For the sake of clarity, define both cultural appropriation and cultural theft, please.

I'd like to understand how you see this.

Q

They mean the same thing-taking something that belongs to another culture and using it without any consideration to the context it originally existed in. If you want to be specific, I'd consider "theft" more directly using something from another culture and "appropriation" trying to "improve" or change it without any understanding of the original meaning. But really I feel they can mostly be used interchangeably.

[Ruck]

I think the thing to keep in mind re: cultural appropriation is whether or not there's any colonialist bent to it, i.e. whether or not the people doing the appropriating are looking down on the other culture, or have the power to oppress it, etc.

Chief Wahoo is the bad kind of cultural appropriation-- a team founded by white people using a caricature of an oppressed minority as a mascot.

I don't think a character, in a fictional work, set in a world that doesn't really resemble Earth, having a preference for kimchi is the same thing at all.

And now that I've used a real-world example, I'll show myself out.

[Jasdoif]

They mean the same thing-taking something that belongs to another culture and using it without any consideration to the context it originally existed in."Consideration" meaning...what, exactly?

[GrayGriffin]

I agreed that the guy saying kimchi is cultural appropriation was a troll. All I wanted is that we not make jokes about cultural appropriation.

[8BitNinja]

I have tried to try all different types of curry.

Does that count?

First of all, how did you?

[GrayGriffin]

"Consideration" meaning...what, exactly?

what context is it used in, why is it used, does it have a particular meaning that won't work in a different context...all sorts of things. The easiest example I can think of is people who get tattoos of random Chinese/Japanese/notanyexistinglanguage characters without even putting any thought into what they mean, or if they mean anything.

[Jasdoif]

what context is it used in, why is it used, does it have a particular meaning that won't work in a different context...all sorts of things. The easiest example I can think of is people who get tattoos of random Chinese/Japanese/notanyexistinglanguage characters without even putting any thought into what they mean, or if they mean anything.So....You mean borrowing elements from another culture, specifically because they're elements from another culture, but purely for the superficial effect of being associated with that culture?

[GrayGriffin]

So....You mean borrowing elements from another culture, specifically because they're elements from another culture, but purely for the superficial effect of being associated with that culture?
Pretty much. Or even because something's from a different culture and therefore "exotic."

[Sir_Norbert]

That seems to me a problematic definition, because just by looking, you don't know what thought other people have put into what they do. How do you distinguish the "bad" cases from people who want to show appreciation and love for another culture?

[Gift Jeraff]

That seems to me a problematic definition, because just by looking, you don't know what thought other people have put into what they do. How do you distinguish the "bad" cases from people who want to show appreciation and love for another culture?

Everything that hurts my feelings are the bad cases.

[Shining Wrath]

I agreed that the guy saying kimchi is cultural appropriation was a troll. All I wanted is that we not make jokes about cultural appropriation.

I strongly suspect that at heart we are in what my mother used to call "violent agreement". One culture treating another culture like zoo animals to be observed and imitated and sometimes mocked is bad. O-Chul and Lien liking kimchi is not the same.

And now, does D&D appropriating ideas from numerous other cultures (Gold Dragons from China, werewolves from Germany, berserkers from Scandinavia) constitute cultural theft? Discuss. :smallbiggrin:

[Pyrous]

I strongly suspect that at heart we are in what my mother used to call "violent agreement". One culture treating another culture like zoo animals to be observed and imitated and sometimes mocked is bad. O-Chul and Lien liking kimchi is not the same.

GrayGriffin is arguing against making jokes about the substance of an obvious trolling post, and thus helping the troll achieve their goal.

It was another poster that suggested that kimchi was cultural appropriation.

[Tvtyrant]

That seems to me a problematic definition, because just by looking, you don't know what thought other people have put into what they do. How do you distinguish the "bad" cases from people who want to show appreciation and love for another culture?

That is because accusing someone of cultural appropriation is at its base a value judgement. The accuser is not giving the other person the benefit of the doubt, as in most cases they cannot possibly know.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Drop this irrelevant line of discussion about cultural appropriation now.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Sheriff: Drop this irrelevant line of discussion about cultural appropriation now.

Oh my... I've never seen this side of you, Roland. So forceful and direct.

You, uh... you doing anything later?

[F.Harr]

Oh boy this forebdes!

[8BitNinja]

So, back onto discussion, what options do a couple of katana wielding paladins have against a flying enemy?

[PallentisLunam]

So, back onto discussion, what options do a couple of katana wielding paladins have against a flying enemy?

Have we seen O'Chul's mount yet? Maybe it flies?

[BriarHobbit]

Airborne opponents can be a real trial if you can't fly. Looks exciting.

[KillingAScarab]

So, back onto discussion, what options do a couple of katana wielding paladins have against a flying enemy?While O-Chul previously had used a katana, neither of these characters has one. Lien uses a spear and we haven't seen O-Chul carrying a weapon since he improvised one out of a cage bar. I guess there could be book content I'm not privy to regarding O-Chul, but I still do not see a manufactured weapon on him at this time. Is he really planning to charge at Xykon with his bare hands again, or does he have extra-dimensional storage space?

[8BitNinja]

Have we seen O'Chul's mount yet? Maybe it flies?

A sort of but not really Chekhov's gun?


While O-Chul previously had used a katana, neither of these characters has one. Lien uses a spear and we haven't seen O-Chul carrying a weapon since he improvised one out of a cage bar. I guess there could be book content I'm not privy to regarding O-Chul, but I still do not see a manufactured weapon on him at this time. Is he really planning to charge at Xykon with his bare hands again, or does he have extra-dimensional storage space?

Oh, I forgot about that

[KillingAScarab]

Oh, I forgot about thatI hadn't even noticed O-Chul's lack of a weapon until now. I would imagine he purchased some sort of weapon in Cliffport along with a cloak and armor. I wonder if those cuffs he has are going to turn out to be modified gloves of storing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gloveofStoring).

[factotum]

I guess there could be book content I'm not privy to regarding O-Chul, but I still do not see a manufactured weapon on him at this time.

By the same token we don't see Elan's rapier or Belkar's daggers unless they're actually out and being used, so assuming O-Chul has no weapon just because it's not visible at the moment seems a poor choice.

[Doctor Foreman]

Honestly, I like these two characters and I'm interested to see what happens to them, but there's something very off about the dialogue to me in this strip. "Hey, remember that time you insisted on walking me home when I was injured?" "Yeah, and character X was with us and we ate this particular foodstuff." They're not actually talking to each other, they're just poking each other into exposition.

I guess the argument could be made is that it's self-aware setup for the whole "minor characters tempt fate" thing, but I stopped finding that a compelling punchline about 5 years ago. Maybe that's my problem.

Anyway, once the plot gets rolling I'm sure it'll settle back into the usual high standard.

[Coat]

Honestly, I like these two characters and I'm interested to see what happens to them, but there's something very off about the dialogue to me in this strip. "Hey, remember that time you insisted on walking me home when I was injured?" "Yeah, and character X was with us and we ate this particular foodstuff." They're not actually talking to each other, they're just poking each other into exposition.

I guess the argument could be made is that it's self-aware setup for the whole "minor characters tempt fate" thing, but I stopped finding that a compelling punchline about 5 years ago. Maybe that's my problem.

Anyway, once the plot gets rolling I'm sure it'll settle back into the usual high standard.

I couldn't disagree more.

That is a big flat white place they are walking across. It does not present many opportunities to say 'oh look, what a lovely flower' as a means for getting some conversation going, and these guys have been travelling together for quite a long time now. Very probably, most of the obvious topics have been discussed: I'm sure that they've done 'just how hard are you planning to punch Xykon in the face' enough times that they can quote each other's answers, similarly with 'what are you planning to do when you retire' / 'I would put all my adventuring funds into a orphanage caring for children who lost their parents to the monsters I have defeated'...

Walking in silence is boring, particularly when you don't have to, you're with a friend you trust and respect, and you have a lot more walking ahead and behind you. Lien, being a decent, open-hearted approachable sentient is doing her best to make the journey go quickly and easily and take their minds of the dangers ahead. O-Chul, being O-Chul, is doing his best to join in - but filling air-time is not really his specialty.

Me, if I'm walking with a friend and I want a conversation to keep things going: food is always a good safe choice.

So yeah, this felt really natural to me.

[Doctor Foreman]

Stuff

My issue isn't so much what they're talking about. It's just that the dialogue feels really expository, in particular the way Lien discusses that place O-Chul ate at in the style of the "As You Know" trope.

[Quibblicious]

Sheriff: Drop this irrelevant line of discussion about cultural appropriation now.

Roger that. Just saw it; stopping now.

[Quibblicious]

By the same token we don't see Elan's rapier or Belkar's daggers unless they're actually out and being used, so assuming O-Chul has no weapon just because it's not visible at the moment seems a poor choice.

Most of the Sapphire Guard didn't show weapons unless they're drawn.

I think the only "always there" weapon is Roy's sword.

[Quibblicious]

Most of the Sapphire Guard didn't show weapons unless they're drawn.

I think the only "always there" weapon is Roy's sword.

And maybe Thog's ax.

[Vigiles]

I must be missing something here: How is a guy dressed in a black cloak "dressed similarly" to a guy dressed in a white cloak? I literally cannot find one similar article of clothing between these two. In my mind "wearing two completely different things" isn't usually referred to as "dressed similarly"

Both outfits have bone head-dressing (skull and antlers) and both outfits have red slashing accents (warpaint and cloak), both of which might well be signifiers of Fenrir worship, but it is just speculation.

[martianmister]

My issue isn't so much what they're talking about. It's just that the dialogue feels really expository, in particular the way Lien discusses that place O-Chul ate at in the style of the "As You Know" trope.

Now you mention it, they talk like Bandana! :smalleek:

[8BitNinja]

Both outfits have bone head-dressing (skull and antlers) and both outfits have red slashing accents (warpaint and cloak), both of which might well be signifiers of Fenrir worship, but it is just speculation.

Don't forget that they both have cloaks

[Burner28]

Glad to see further character insight between O-Chul and Lien.

[rman]

So, back onto discussion, what options do a couple of katana wielding paladins have against a flying enemy?

Snow balls. Ice balls. Possibly a rope.

[rman]

On where they carry their weapons -
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0904.html
Last two panels.

[8BitNinja]

Snow balls. Ice balls. Possibly a rope.

Snowball fight with a Ythrak, I'd love to see that

[GreatWyrmGold]

It's tempting to imagine it evolved somewhere it was always dark, or the atmosphere was opaque, or there was always mist. Or where all the prey animals had the instinctive ability to create visual illusions - that could be where displacer beasts come from.
Ooh. I want to see that campaign setting.
Or at least that plane.


Well, a yrthak (and a displacer beast) is a magical beast, so natural selection doesn't have to have anything to do with it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html).
Not all magical beasts come from magical experiments.


The paladin and bard character classes are largely mutually exclusive due to lawful/non-lawful alignment restrictions, respectively.
Not everyone in the Guard has to be a paladin; look at Lord Shojo. Even if we disregard that, the bards could easily be support staff. I highly doubt the Sapphire Guard's cooks, masons, armorers, and so on are all Experts with a level of Paladin.


You're welcome, without you guys, who would continuously buff us melee fighters?
Clerics? Wizards? Druids?


Save me from the internet!
...
We're on the Internet. Literally your only way of hearing from us is through the Internet. Might as well ask your fellow bar patrons to save you from alcoholism.


Let me put it this way, Q, you are a great guy, but there is now way that I would want to be in a relationship with you

You can't do anything now, shippers!
Dude, don't taunt the fandom-rotting abomination.


While the flying creature is pretty obviously a yrthak, I think the "arctic variant" is equally obviously the half-dragon template (white dragon, specifically). Yrthaks are not traditionally drawn with frilled ears, that's something that probably wouldn't come from some generic "slap a cold subtype on it and call it a day" template.
Meanwhile everything "wrong" about the yrthak fits the half-dragon template. Dragon ears, white coloration, and being in the wrong environment - the half-dragon template even says, right under environment, "Same as either the base creature or the dragon variety."
Which would give this nasty creature essentially *two* breath weapons: the yrthak's long range single target sonic lance (with optional explosion mode) and a closer range cold damage AOE/cone.
Good catch on the ears.


This is the food-only genie though
Wish-granting food, then.


My issue isn't so much what they're talking about. It's just that the dialogue feels really expository, in particular the way Lien discusses that place O-Chul ate at in the style of the "As You Know" trope.
How would you discuss it?
"You actually ate there once."
"Oh, I remember that."
"Oh. Cool."
...
"Were you trying to make a joke there?"


Snowball fight with a Ythrak, I'd love to see that
Me, too.
I wouldn't want to do it, though. At least, not unless I'm on the yrthak's side.

[Pyrous]

I wouldn't want to do it, though. At least, not unless I'm on the yrthak's side.


The other side has O-Chul, though. You probably wouldn't want to do it even on the yrthak's side.

[Jasdoif]

Not everyone in the Guard has to be a paladin; look at Lord Shojo. Even if we disregard that, the bards could easily be support staff. I highly doubt the Sapphire Guard's cooks, masons, armorers, and so on are all Experts with a level of Paladin.On this note....


The Sapphire Guard would have been a secret society, separate but overlapping with the general clergy and paladins of the Twelve Gods. All members of the Sapphire Guard are clerics or paladins of the Twelve Gods, but not all paladins of the Twelve Gods were members of the Sapphire Guard. Only those who could be trusted with the secret of the Gate would be inducted. There will likely be more detail in the upcoming O-Chul solo story, which will go out digitally to all Kickstarter backers when it's done but will also certainly be compiled for print someday.

No arcane casters or noncasters? Only if they were multiclass. There might have been, say, a sorcerer/paladin or a fighter/cleric, but no solo sorcerers or fighters. So there could certainly be cleric/bards among them. I'll also point out that bards who become lawful keep all their bard abilities, so bard/paladins are also a possibility.

[littlebum2002]

While O-Chul previously had used a katana, neither of these characters has one. Lien uses a spear and we haven't seen O-Chul carrying a weapon since he improvised one out of a cage bar. I guess there could be book content I'm not privy to regarding O-Chul, but I still do not see a manufactured weapon on him at this time. Is he really planning to charge at Xykon with his bare hands again, or does he have extra-dimensional storage space?

I mean, are you honestly trying to suggest that O-Cjul went back to the Paladins and then left for a very crucial mission without getting a weapon from one of them? Even Elan would be smarter than that.



Both outfits have bone head-dressing (skull and antlers) and both outfits have red slashing accents (warpaint and cloak), both of which might well be signifiers of Fenrir worship, but it is just speculation.

The HPoFenrir's outfit doesn't have red slashing, his face has orange/rust colored slashing. And black isn't similar to white, and antlers aren't similar to a skull.

I mean, this IS the forum that thinks the bodyguard on the last line of #999 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html) must be Redcloak's niece because they're both female and green, so claiming that two people who have completely different colored cloaks, totally different headdresses, and different colored paint on different parts of their body must be from the same religion even though literally nothing about them is similar is about par for the course, I guess.

Sure, it's possible. It's also possible that the yrthak he's riding is a polymorphed Trigak. Both rely on absolutely baseless speculation with no evidence to support them.

[Keltest]

The HPoFenrir's outfit doesn't have red slashing, his face has orange/rust colored slashing. And black isn't similar to white, and antlers aren't similar to a skull.

I mean, this IS the forum that thinks the bodyguard on the last line of #999 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html) must be Redcloak's niece because they're both female and green, so claiming that two people who have completely different colored cloaks, totally different headdresses, and different colored paint on different parts of their body must be from the same religion even though literally nothing about them is similar is about par for the course, I guess.

Sure, ok, black isn't similar to white, but a black fur cloak is a lot closer to a white fur cloak than it is to, say, a black tuxedo. And antlers are closer to a skull than they are to a feathered cap. They are both fairly primal looking individuals, so the association is not unreasonable.

The only other priest(ess) who bears any resemblance at all is Skadi's.

[ti'esar]

I mean, this IS the forum that thinks the bodyguard on the last line of #999 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html) must be Redcloak's niece because they're both female and green

Did anybody actually think that? I only remember people joking about it.

[Peelee]

Same with kimchi, at least acording to Lien.

Today, on Things I Learned From My Mother-in-Law: Traditionally, Korean women's marital value is judged, among other factors, by how many varieties of kimchi they know how to make. Also, my MiL makes the best kimchi ever. Also bulgogi. Also gimbap. Not bibimbap, though; it's not bad, but it's not the best thing ever.

[8BitNinja]

Today, on Things I Learned From My Mother-in-Law: Traditionally, Korean women's marital value is judged, among other factors, by how many varieties of kimchi they know how to make. Also, my MiL makes the best kimchi ever. Also bulgogi. Also gimbap. Not bibimbap, though; it's not bad, but it's not the best thing ever.

So a married woman would know how to make many varities?

[littlebum2002]

Sure, ok, black isn't similar to white, but a black fur cloak is a lot closer to a white fur cloak than it is to, say, a black tuxedo. And antlers are closer to a skull than they are to a feathered cap. They are both fairly primal looking individuals, so the association is not unreasonable.

The only other priest(ess) who bears any resemblance at all is Skadi's.


Why would I possibly WANT this sort of speculation?

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

This was in reference to a girl in #683 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0683.html) who has the same hairstyle as Haley. As with this speculation, people were pointing out two characters in the comic who were pretty much nothing alike except for one passing similarity and assuming it meant something. Unlike this case, they actually had a similarity - their hairstyles. The HPoFenrir and this individual literally do not have one thing in common between them, so the speculation is more absurd than saying that the girl with the same hair as Haley must be related to her.

So yes, it is extremely unreasonable, which unfortunately means it is very par for the course on this forum in which unwarranted and baseless speculation is the norm.




Did anybody actually think that? I only remember people joking about it.

Yes:

Great Stuff. Eager to see Hel's plan come to light soon.

On a side note, and probably totally unimportant:


Could the female Orc on panel 1 - obviously bodyguard to some human/dwarf/gnome - be Redcloak's niece?




Today, on Things I Learned From My Mother-in-Law: Traditionally, Korean women's marital value is judged, among other factors, by how many varieties of kimchi they know how to make. Also, my MiL makes the best kimchi ever. Also bulgogi. Also gimbap. Not bibimbap, though; it's not bad, but it's not the best thing ever.

You have no idea how jealous I am. My MIL was Irish and German and her cooking was terrible.

[Gorky]

Kind of reminds me of the orc tribe from Strip 557 among others.

[littlebum2002]

Kind of reminds me of the orc tribe from Strip 557 among others.

Or the High Priest of Thrym. His cloak is blue and at least he has the same headgear.

Isn't it amazing how many characters in this strip have passing similarities without being related to each other? It's almost like drawing stick figures is an art form with limited options for variability.

[ti'esar]

This was in reference to a girl in #683 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0683.html) who has the same hairstyle as Haley. As with this speculation, people were pointing out two characters in the comic who were pretty much nothing alike except for one passing similarity and assuming it meant something. Unlike this case, they actually had a similarity - their hairstyles. The HPoFenrir and this individual literally do not have one thing in common between them, so the speculation is more absurd than saying that the girl with the same hair as Haley must be related to her.

I feel like it's much more implausible to speculate that a random extra (who doesn't even actually have quite the same type of ponytail) is a relative of a main character then to assume that this character in the north dressed in barbarian-type furs is a member of the same Northern religion as another character dressed in barbarian-type furs. It's not likely - there's more of a resemblance to the High Priest of Thyrm. But still.

[GreatWyrmGold]

So there could certainly be cleric/bards among them. I'll also point out that bards who become lawful keep all their bard abilities, so bard/paladins are also a possibility.
I thought you had to start as paladin...wait, not in the OotS-verse.
Though a bard/cleric of Monkey makes perfect sense either way.


Sure, it's possible. It's also possible that the yrthak he's riding is a polymorphed Trigak. Both rely on absolutely baseless speculation with no evidence to support them.
It's only mostly baseless. The two have some shared motifs, and it's not like it's easy to perfectly standardize vestments made out of dead animals, particularly if your clergy is scattered over many different biomes.
Improbable, but not absurd, and certainly not as insane as suggesting that the green clearly-non-goblin is Redcloak's niece, or that a random animal is a dead chimera. That's just a blatant false equivalence.

[ti'esar]

So on a different note, these last two comics have really driven it in for me just how far north Kraagor's Gate actually is. That feels like a blow to the theories linking it to the story of Durkon's parents.

[8BitNinja]

So on a different note, these last two comics have really driven it in for me just how far north Kraagor's Gate actually is. That feels like a blow to the theories linking it to the story of Durkon's parents.

Maybe there was a massive geological change in the last 20 years

[Jasdoif]

I thought you had to start as paladin...wait, not in the OotS-verse.It's closer to the other way around in 3.5. You can take the first level of paladin whenever; but if you take a level in another class (with a few exceptions) after that, you can't take any more paladin levels ever.