Binding spell: great or mehh

[Campbellk8105]

So I've never paid too much attention the the 8th level spell, Binding. But after reading it again, it seems like it could be great for many things.

However, I'm wondering if it is even helpful later levels, or at all against another spellcaster. When a creature is chained, it cant move from where it's at, for ONE YEAR PER CASTER LEVEL. Sounds nice right? However, it doesn't give in depth details of how much the target can move, how it's actually chained, and the worst part it says nothing about restricting ability use or magic use. So why couldn't a magic user just teleport out? Can a strong character burst its bindings?

The spell has multiple ways to bind a target, and it all sounds pretty neat. It just seems like it's missing -a lot- of detail it needs.

Questions/comments?

[Necroticplague]

It's an Enchantment, and thus mind-effecting. It allows a save and SR. It only targets living creatures. It takes a whole freaking minute to cast. Everything I could think of that I would want to use this on is either immune or prohibitively expensive to use it on (since cost scales with HD of target), or at the least very, very likely for it to not work. When you have 8th level spells, you could probably simply outright kill them with a better chance of success. Things it would work on aren't worth the effort of using it, things its worth the effort to use it on aren't gonna have it work. The only people you're gonna be able to use it on are people already at your mercy, who you could better disable for cheaper and more long-term by either beating the tar out of them with nonlethal damage (capturing alive), or shank em with a thinuan dagger (if you want to make sure they stay dead). I see no real reason to ever use this spell on several levels.

[Campbellk8105]

That's the conclusion I've pretty much come to. Aside from using it only for flavor or be a bigger pain in the ass, it just seems to fall flat on its face.

I like the idea of BBEG slumbering a party 50 years into the future though.

On the flip side, what would it take to make the spell more effective? Cheaper components? Shorter casting time?

[Zancloufer]

It's worth noting that only the first of the six versions of the Binding spell don't explicitly say the creature cannot leave. Also the last three are not only permanent but pretty much guarantee.

The mind affecting tag is the only real thing holding the spell back IMHO. Fun fact: While it TECHNICALLY says it allows SR a saves, it also says that:

1) If your CL when casting the spell is greater than 2x the target's HD they get no save.
2) You can buff you CL with something akin to discount circle magic if they can cast suggestion, or dominate X. Get a bunch of people who can cast dominate X an you get 1/3rd their CL per person contributing.

I mean it's a really niche spell, but if you can get a large enough group of casters you can pretty much put someone away indefinitely. It's not efficient from a D&D player's perspective, but there are probably some NPC or RP uses for it and it's not exactly useless. . .

[Campbellk8105]

It also says for the other ones, they are trapped albeit in a jar, case, gem, etc.

I was also wondering though, if you had someone cast binding on you, make you smaller than 1", and then you have to be placed in a gem or jar, what have you. Now say, they let you out of the jar. Do you become normal, or are you free to run around as diminutive?

Lol all I think of is that old movie "The Borrowers."

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's worth noting that only the first of the six versions of the Binding spell don't explicitly say the creature cannot leave. Also the last three are not only permanent but pretty much guarantee.

The mind affecting tag is the only real thing holding the spell back IMHO. Fun fact: While it TECHNICALLY says it allows SR a saves, it also says that:

1) If your CL when casting the spell is greater than 2x the target's HD they get no save.
2) You can buff you CL with something akin to discount circle magic if they can cast suggestion, or dominate X. Get a bunch of people who can cast dominate X an you get 1/3rd their CL per person contributing.

I mean it's a really niche spell, but if you can get a large enough group of casters you can pretty much put someone away indefinitely. It's not efficient from a D&D player's perspective, but there are probably some NPC or RP uses for it and it's not exactly useless. . .

Because of these details, it makes sense for binding as an item produced spell being used by casters of a lower level to pull the old "evil in a can" trope. When you can actually cast the spell directly, it's not a great option. When you're level 10 and you're producing it from a scroll with a few NPC adepts for backup you could bring down a -much- higher level foe, for a time.