3.5 - Grabbing an item from a stunned opponent

[Grand Poobah]

Morning Giants,

In a recent session, a player tried to grab a headband off a stunned enemy. He failed but I'm not sure he should have.

From the SRD

Grabbing Items

You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack.

If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn’t allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above.

You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt.


I would argue that a headband, while unlikely to fall off in general use, isn't secured to the head so the grabber should have got a +4 on his opposed disarm roll.

However, is the +4 a moot point anyway because a stunned opponent can't take actions? Grabbing is a disarm action so does that imply that defending against a grab is also an action albeit a free action?

Also from the SRD

Stunned

A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).


Any clarification/opinions?

Thanks

[Troacctid]

If I recall correctly, an opposed roll does not require an action from the defender.

[Telonius]

Yeah, I'd say that the character would get an opposed roll. A stunned character still gets a reflex save, so they're not entirely incapable of moving; they just can't take move actions (or any other sort of actions). Compare the wording to Paralyzed:

A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act.
Movement in general and ability to act are not the same thing.

[KillianHawkeye]

The opposed roll itself is not an action, merely a consequence of your disarm action. And whether a headband counts as being securely worn is up to the DM to decide.

[XionUnborn01]

The opposed roll itself is not an action, merely a consequence of your disarm action. And whether a headband counts as being securely worn is up to the DM to decide.

The DM may have envisioned the headband as being worn under a helm, or with their hair woven around it, or any number of things that might make it secure. Heck, they might have simply had a headband grabbed before so they now have it attached to their armor.