Question on Familiars

[Ceridan]

Ladies and gentleman, I wish to pick your brains if I may. What has RAW to state on the following.

It states on page 52 of the PHB that "For purpose of effects related to the number of hit dice use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total whichever is higher."

That stated, my question is do familiars gain stat increases and feats as the master would. For example: Would the familiar of a 4th level wizard gain a feat at third a stat point at fourth?

Thank you in advance.

[Callix]

No. The familiar is not being advanced. This line concerns HD-based effects, like a dragon's frightful prescence or a Holy Word/Blasphemy etc spell. If this line was not present, a 20th level wizard's familiar would be killed with no save by any of the word spells which affected it. The familiar does not gain hit dice; it is treated as if it had more hit dice than it does. Similarly, turn resistance, which grants effective HD to an undead creature in regards turning, does not contribute to level-dependent benefits.

[Damionte]

Hmmm, that's been a highly debateable question over the years.

As a strict rules reading I would say yes. It says to use the masters CL if it is higher. Then use that. It doesn't say anywhere in the books that familiars don't gain feats.

I actually recall reading it somewhere but going back through the relevant books just now that should cover it. "PHB & MM-I" it doesn't mention anywhere that I've found yet.

The SRD may have it worded differently, but in some folks games the SRD doesn't count. Only the wording in the PHB.

so with the evidence I've seen so far I say yes. They gain feats as any other creature that gains hit dice.

EDIT: Ahh now I remember why I initially ruled this the other way. he is right in that you don't actually gain hit dice. Feat and abaility point gain are not effects based on hit dice in the same manner as actual effects based on your hit dice. Or at least that is the way folks are generalyl reading it.

That poinmt though is debatable. For instance Psicrystals don't have the same stipulation. They actually gain hit dice, making them in a way unbalanced. So is that the way it's supopsed to work for them all? Are psicrystals an exception to the rule or are they implemented the way the rule was always meant to be.

That's the part people debate currently.

[Ditto]

I was always confused as to why familiars don't advance at all. They get neat little tricks and Int a some NA, but feats and skill points are damn useful. Obviously, it shouldn't be a terrifically strong progression like a druid's animal companion or somesuch, but something would be nice.

And yeah, that line definitely does *not* grant advancement HD. 'For the purposes of effects', see? Skills are not effects of Hit Dice.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

EDIT: Ahh now I remember why I initially ruled this the other way. he is right in that you don't actually gain hit dice. Feat and abaility point gain are not effects based on hit dice in the same manner as actual effects based on your hit dice. Or at least that is the way folks are generalyl reading it.

Folks and Skip Williams.

[Damionte]

Skip Williams....? What?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Skip Williams....? What?

You know, one of the game designers behind 3rd edition and the former sage. :smallwink: