Helping to find "Balanced" encounters

[Elite Hatter]

I need some help for my campaign. I'm currently DM-ing for 4 friends, a Evocation wizard gnome, a death cleric human, a sun soul monk human, and a 4 assassin Rouge, 3 shadow monk Halfling. They are all level 7.

Magic items inclide:
-2 immovable rods and bracers of archery for the Halfling. As well as a few poison bolts.
-+1 nonmagical plate armor, staff of the adder (unattuned and unused), and a staff of healing for the cleric
-wand of Magic Missle for the gnome
-bracers of defense for the monk.

Now my problem, well their actually, is that no matter how I make an encounter they either 1 shot everything in 1 turn or use literally all their resources and lose over 75% total party health trying to win.

There is no "medium" it seems. It's either ridiculously easy or almost into "Deadly" territory.

I'll admit I'm using the exp values and dmg set guidelines to building these encounters is there a better way? Or, are my players just bad? Because at this point I really don't know. As I said, if it isn't 1-shot, they run into issues. And this has been an ongoing problem for over a dozen encounters and about 8 or 9 sessions of game play. Any and all advice is appreciated. =D

[Elite Hatter]

Not that it matters I think, but the wizard also has a Pearl of Power.

[PeteNutButter]

Inexperienced players will tend to blow all of their resources early. Try to "persuade" them against that by having multiple encounters or waves.

The other thing is don't be afraid to test their limits. Knocking a PC unconscious meaning 0 hp, rarely kills them in 5e. It might be all it takes to get them to play smarter.

Pay attention to your players and their spells, as you get more experience you can plan out in your head what they might do, almost like chess + RNG. If for instance your cleric has revivify prepped, don't be afraid to toss out enemies that could one shot players. That's when they should go NOVA and use everything. It'll just hurt their pocket books (300g per revive), and make them feel more accomplished when they win.

All that being said sometimes RNG bites hard, making tough encounters a joke or making medium encounters deadly.

[NewDM]

Their offensive capabilities outstrip the monster defensive capabilities. At the same time their hit points and other stats are those of a normal party of their level. This means that the shorter the combat is the easier it is for them. The longer it is, the more likely it becomes a TPK, and to prevent that they have to spend lots of resources.

To balance this throw lower level monsters at them, but nudge up their hit points. Aim for easy encounters but double the hit points of the monsters involved.

If you use lower level monsters and simply spend your xp budget to have many of them you might find that 'balanced' sweet spot.

[mgshamster]

Their offensive capabilities outstrip the monster defensive capabilities. At the same time their hit points and other stats are those of a normal party of their level. This means that the shorter the combat is the easier it is for them. The longer it is, the more likely it becomes a TPK, and to prevent that they have to spend lots of resources.

To balance this throw lower level monsters at them, but nudge up their hit points. Aim for easy encounters but double the hit points of the monsters involved.

If you use lower level monsters and simply spend your xp budget to have many of them you might find that 'balanced' sweet spot.

In addition to the advice NewDM gives here, also throw more enemies who are "weaker" rather than fewer stronger enemies.

You can create the expected XP by having a group rather than 1-3 bad guys. And by boosting their HP a bit, you make them tougher.

So now your bad guys will remain a threat and last longer, but they won't be so strong that they'll nearly TPK your group, because the weaker monsters will have a smaller chance to hit.

[Elite Hatter]

Inexperienced players will tend to blow all of their resources early. Try to "persuade" them against that by having multiple encounters or waves.

The other thing is don't be afraid to test their limits. Knocking a PC unconscious meaning 0 hp, rarely kills them in 5e. It might be all it takes to get them to play smarter.

Pay attention to your players and their spells, as you get more experience you can plan out in your head what they might do, almost like chess + RNG. If for instance your cleric has revivify prepped, don't be afraid to toss out enemies that could one shot players. That's when they should go NOVA and use everything. It'll just hurt their pocket books (300g per revive), and make them feel more accomplished when they win.

All that being said sometimes RNG bites hard, making tough encounters a joke or making medium encounters deadly.

I have been knocking them to 0. one medium encounter actually knocked 3 of them, tis was because the rogue did wait to use his arrows of slaying until the other 3 were dead, but it is a good example. i have reminded them almost every session and even given them time to "prep" their battle strategies both as a team and on an individual bases. Baring the rogue, who is almost always moving->shooting->hiding, my players just stand there and get hit. ive encouraged kiting, offered suggestions for CC spells (Web, Grease, ect) and other stuff. and ive run out of ideas. hence why i am posting on here seeing if the community can help.

[Renvir]

In addition to the advice NewDM gives here, also throw more enemies who are "weaker" rather than fewer stronger enemies.

You can create the expected XP by having a group rather than 1-3 bad guys. And by boosting their HP a bit, you make them tougher.

So now your bad guys will remain a threat and last longer, but they won't be so strong that they'll nearly TPK your group, because the weaker monsters will have a smaller chance to hit.

If you want to get more granular with the advice from mgshamster and NewDM I would suggest you read the custom monster section in the DMG. Page 274 I think but I'm AFB. I found it to be really helpful in creating combat encounters for my players. Especially when a group is favoring offense over defense or vice-versa.

Messing with their stats can work but I'd also try making changes to the layout of battlefields. I found that I was too often throwing my players into large, flat, and boring rooms to fight in and decided I needed to try something else. Creating cramped, dark, multi-story areas to fight in can really change how easy or tough a fight is. Four orcs armed with swords standing in a line 20 feet from your party is a very different encounter than four orcs in a stand of trees on top of a hill 60 feet away armed with longbows.

[MrStabby]

So a few tips that I found solved this problem for me:

1) Surprise rounds/surprised condition. Seriously one more turn of free fightin' from the enemies will just take away a few more HP. That web spell the enemies cast will pay for itself pretty quickly. If its an ambush stick down some tripwires etc..

2) Use more interesting terrain. Fight in fog. Fight in the dark (if they have no means of getting darkvision it is a big help. Fight up to their knees in a swamp. Do things to keep some of them out of combat for a turn here and there. It will slow their damage down a little for that encounter and will force them to save some resources.

3) Add some monk levels to your enemies. A few stuns here and there, some targeting of the weaker party members, getting into surprise places...

4) Work out a good core set of spells that will make things a bit tougher for the party without leaving one player bored by being unconscious the whole fight. I like spells like Slow for this. If your players tend to Nova Hard and open with their most powerful spells a couple of illusions will add a bit of extra tension to encounters.

5) Give enemy casters counterspell and dispell magic if on their list. Given how important they are I can't imagine anyone with access to them not taking them.

6) If you want to make them mobile, throw down spells like silence or other area of effect spells to give them an incentive. Let them face enemies with a charging mechanic where cutting down their movement space through good positioning is rewarding.

[NewDM]

If you want to get more granular with the advice from mgshamster and NewDM I would suggest you read the custom monster section in the DMG. Page 274 I think but I'm AFB. I found it to be really helpful in creating combat encounters for my players. Especially when a group is favoring offense over defense or vice-versa.

Messing with their stats can work but I'd also try making changes to the layout of battlefields. I found that I was too often throwing my players into large, flat, and boring rooms to fight in and decided I needed to try something else. Creating cramped, dark, multi-story areas to fight in can really change how easy or tough a fight is. Four orcs armed with swords standing in a line 20 feet from your party is a very different encounter than four orcs in a stand of trees on top of a hill 60 feet away armed with longbows.

You mean 600 feet in dense foliage right? (those outside are blind and grant advantage cancelling long range disadvantage).

[Renvir]

You mean 600 feet in dense foliage right? (those outside are blind and grant advantage cancelling long range disadvantage).

Well I was trying to be realistic... (stifles laugh)

[NewDM]

Well I was trying to be realistic... (stifles laugh)

Realism has no place in D&D. By the rules this works, and is a great trap for players.

[Zman]

Realism has no place in D&D. By the rules this works, and is a great trap for players.

It is also within the rules and more likely RAI that you declare neither Orc's nor PCs can see 600' in the dark or through dense foliage so no attack is possible without a really high, likely impossible, perception check. And the DM is well within their rights to say the check automatically fails meaning there are no checks barring circumstances i.e. The party is shedding lots of light if it's dark and the dense foliage not being actually dense. You are correct that if you are unseen attacking you gain advantage and that would cancel disadvantage from range, but dense foliage blocks sight so those Orc's have to figure out exactly where the characters are, if they cannot locate their location, i.e. Their exact square in a grid, otherwise they automatic miss. So what is the DC for locating the exact-ish spot of a target 600' away you cannot see and would be virtually impossible to hear? Not to mention the DM should simply rule the dense foliage makes the ranged attack impossible. I mean, how do the Orc's even know the characters are out there, they can't see them and at 600' they likely can't hear them? A combat encounter isn't even initiated at that range under those circumstances.

For a guy that is touting the rule of RAW in multiple threads simultaneously, you conveniently like to ignore very key parts of it.

Anyway, by the rules, this does not work.

[NewDM]

It is also within the rules and more likely RAI that you declare neither Orc's nor PCs can see 600' in the dark or through dense foliage so no attack is possible without a really high, likely impossible, perception check. And the DM is well within their rights to say the check automatically fails meaning there are no checks barring circumstances i.e. The party is shedding lots of light if it's dark and the dense foliage not being actually dense. You are correct that if you are unseen attacking you gain advantage and that would cancel disadvantage from range, but dense foliage blocks sight so those Orc's have to figure out exactly where the characters are, if they cannot locate their location, i.e. Their exact square in a grid, otherwise they automatic miss. So what is the DC for locating the exact-ish spot of a target 600' away you cannot see and would be virtually impossible to hear? Not to mention the DM should simply rule the dense foliage makes the ranged attack impossible. I mean, how do the Orc's even know the characters are out there, they can't see them and at 600' they likely can't hear them? A combat encounter isn't even initiated at that range under those circumstances.

For a guy that is touting the rule of RAW in multiple threads simultaneously, you conveniently like to ignore very key parts of it.

Anyway, by the rules, this does not work.

It could be interpreted that way. However it could also be interpreted the other way.

You can also have a scout outside the dense foliage who spots the character, runs into the foliage and then tells the other orcs where the group is and how far away so they can start shooting. It could move out and then back in to adjust for party changes each round. As long as they know the general location they can attack. Both parties are blind so they have advantage on attacks against each other. The orcs have disadvantage for firing at long range. Any number of sources of advantage + any number of sources of disadvantage = regular attack roll.

[Zman]

It could be interpreted that way. However it could also be interpreted the other way.

You can also have a scout outside the dense foliage who spots the character, runs into the foliage and then tells the other orcs where the group is and how far away so they can start shooting. It could move out and then back in to adjust for party changes each round. As long as they know the general location they can attack. Both parties are blind so they have advantage on attacks against each other. The orcs have disadvantage for firing at long range. Any number of sources of advantage + any number of sources of disadvantage = regular attack roll.

No, it really can't be interpreted that way without taking a very liver and not RAW version of knowing their location. Your RAW hypocrisy is showing.