Best uses for the default human?

[Quintessence]

Using the default human and standard point buy you can have 14 in 5 stats and 11 in the last one... What would take the most advantage of such a spread?

I was leaning towards a bard since it would really amp up their skill monkey-like ways..

[Citan]

Hi!

Well, the obvious uses I see are (in no order of importance)...

- Bard as you said, even moreso the skillmonkey multiclass build.^^

- Starting with 2*16 and no negative stat (AFB but if you take standard 15/15/15/8/8/8 arrawy, IIRC going 14 > 15 costs 2 points, while 8>9 only one point. So 15/15/14/9/9/9 with Human gives 16/16/15/10/10/10. Pretty solid overall.

- Taking on heavy multiclass builds such as Monk / Paladin (although obviously you would require some work to make it work: favoring either WIS and taking Shillelagh with Magic Initiate, or favor DEX and don't hope high on Monk/Paladin offensive skills).

- Building "All Star" build with all stats required and at least 4 classes involved, just for the fun of it (you can actually build characters which are viable at the end levels... But the whole 10-12 first will be painful or boring in most cases).

Aaaaand. That's about it for what I can think of. Not so bad imo though. :)

[SharkForce]

you roll for stats, got mostly odd numbers, and are playing in a featless game.

[DMBlackhart]

you roll for stats, got mostly odd numbers, and are playing in a featless game.

+1

Oh, this isn't Reddit, whatever.

Anyways, I see this as the "Most commong", at my table personally.

The V-Human is allowed along side every other race option presented in Core and in the UA/DMG thus far at my table, and I require rolling 3d6 (in order, yes I am a monster, there pitch forks are riiiight over there next to the torches); and oddly enough any time one of my players rolls at least 3 or more odd attributes, they nearly always default to regular human for the sheer early boost it nets them. Even with feats allowed, they find it a preferable way to curb out their builds requirements and hit those high notes with as few ASI's as needed.

[smcmike]

We rolled for stats and disallowed v human. Half the party is regular human.

[Ewhit]

Look
At my post on point stats I list the major choices. Just plug in +1 to each list and choose what class you want

[JumboWheat01]

One of the best uses for the standard human is for performing more unusual multi-class combinations. MAD isn't quite a problem when you can easily have all the stats needed so high.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There was just a thread on a similar topic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483469-All-14s-guy-Is-it-a-trap) (a character with straight 14s). The overall responses seemed to be:

Play a weird multiclass thing that normally wouldn't be possible
Play a jack-of-all-trades guy, like a Bard
Don't play anything that requires rolls or saves because your stats are uselessly low compared to everyone else's and it's a huge issue and definitely not just an insignificant difference, especially compared to the swinginess of the d20 roll.

[Specter]

Unless you roll for stats, regular human is totally lame. They could have at least given a skill proficiency to them, but without that it's clear that Mike Mearls is a misanthropic.

[MrStabby]

I ran a normal human for my oathbreaker necromancer. It was pretty good as I needed 13s in 3 stats just to multiclass and most of the others were not good dump stats.

Yeah, you have to be pretty MAD multiclassing to make it worth something. The shadow-monk warlock for example can benefit.

[JellyPooga]

Standard human is awesome; it allows you to be competent at everything, instead of having to choose focus/dump stats.

Using 27 point buy, a human can have;

15+1, 13+1, 13+1, 11+1, 11+1, 10+1. No negatives and your primary still has a +3 mod.

15+1, 14+1, 13+1, 11+1, 11+1, 8+1 gives you the option of upgrading two stats at level 4 or having a decent stat to pick a feat that also upgrades one of those odds.

Alternatively, the "all 14's" build is not terrible. I frequently play characters with no more than a +2 mod in anything and get good results out of it. The difference between 14 and 16 tends to be negligible in actual play.

[SharkForce]

Standard human is awesome; it allows you to be competent at everything, instead of having to choose focus/dump stats.

Using 27 point buy, a human can have;

15+1, 13+1, 13+1, 11+1, 11+1, 10+1. No negatives and your primary still has a +3 mod.

15+1, 14+1, 13+1, 11+1, 11+1, 8+1 gives you the option of upgrading two stats at level 4 or having a decent stat to pick a feat that also upgrades one of those odds.

Alternatively, the "all 14's" build is not terrible. I frequently play characters with no more than a +2 mod in anything and get good results out of it. The difference between 14 and 16 tends to be negligible in actual play.

unfortunately, competent at everything (assuming we accept the basic premise that +1 to every attribute makes you substantially more competent than others, which I'm not inclined to agree with) is not all that useful in a typical D&D group. the whole point of the group is to have multiple specialists, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, working together. your build is arguably a bit stronger in small groups (or solo campaigns), but I'd probably rather a variant human with the skilled feat so you can pick 3 specific checks to be substantially more competent in, rather than being not totally awful in a few extra areas.

[bid]

Default human cannot compete with mountain dwarf or half-elf:
- 16 14 14 14 11 10 human
- 16 14 14 14 11 8 half-elf

Think of it this way: racials add to your point buy.
- +2/+1 races have 33 points buy
- +2/+2 mountain dwarf has 35 points buy
- +2/+1/+1 half-elf has 35 points buy
- +1/+1 vuman has 31 points buy
- buman 14 14 14 14 14 11 has 38 points buy

That 3 point advantage between buman and half-elf only keeps your dump stat at 11. It's not enough to compete. Buman must be able to dump Str/Cha to go where md/he cannot reach. And even then, Cha10 is enough to help half-elf edge closer. Not to mention the 2 extra skills.

So no barbarian, bard, sorcerer, warlock. No monk because of AC. Preferably medium armor to optimize Dex14. More than mere skills, so maybe rogue's expertise.


No, you really need a special setup that neither mountain dwarf nor half-elf can match. I haven't seen a proposal yet.

[JellyPooga]

unfortunately, competent at everything (assuming we accept the basic premise that +1 to every attribute makes you substantially more competent than others, which I'm not inclined to agree with) is not all that useful in a typical D&D group.

+1 to every attribute compared to having any attribute at a penalty is fairly significant. IF the choice (and I'm not saying it necessarily always is) is between +1 and -1, that's a 2 point swing. The notion of having no penalties is an attractive one; yes, D&D encourages the party of specialists over generalists, but the "flawless hero" is a strong archetype from a narrative perspective.


Default human cannot compete with mountain dwarf or half-elf:
- 16 14 14 14 11 10 human
- 16 14 14 14 11 8 half-elf

The biggest problem with making a comparison between Human and Half-Elf or Mountain Dwarf is the more limited scope. Half-Elves are forced to have decent Charisma, Dwarves must have that higher Con. The stat array you've posted for the Half-Elf there; that 16 must be in Charisma. Not a Charisma focused build? Tough luck; you'll have to drop some other stats if you want that 16 in something other than Charisma and if you're to make the most out of your Racial bonus, then you're not dumping Charisma at all. The Human, on the other hand, has greater flexibility whilst maintaining his higher array.


Think of it this way: racials add to your point buy.
- +2/+1 races have 33 points buy
- +2/+2 mountain dwarf has 35 points buy
- +2/+1/+1 half-elf has 35 points buy
- +1/+1 vuman has 31 points buy
- buman 14 14 14 14 14 11 has 38 points buy

This is misleading and is only true for "ideal circumstance" builds. Claiming that the Half-Elf has a 35pt-buy is only true if you, at the very least, use the +2 to Charisma to jump from 13 to 15 and both +1's to go from 13's to 14's. Use your Charisma bump to go from a 12 to a 14 and you've lost a point. Use it to bump an 8 to a 10 or a 10 to a 12 and you're down to 33pts.


No, you really need a special setup that neither mountain dwarf nor half-elf can match. I haven't seen a proposal yet.

There is no "special setup" that standard Human will do better than any given other race. That's not the point. Of course a Mountain Dwarf will be a better Fighter than a Human; it's what they're good at. The Human, however, can be competitive with the Dwarf, yet doesn't have to sacrifice his smarts or socials to do it. The Human is a better generalist. Any build that enjoys or requires MAD will benefit from being Human. Depending on the build, another Race might do it better, but the Human can do any of them:

A Half-Elf Paladin/Wizard, for example, is probably better than a Human one, but if the build is Paladin/Wizard/Monk, then the Half-Elf will struggle to look any better than a Human will under the same circumstances (I'm not saying this is a good Class build, but hey, it takes all sorts, right?).

[Grod_The_Giant]

That 3 point advantage between buman and half-elf only keeps your dump stat at 11. It's not enough to compete. Buman must be able to dump Str/Cha to go where md/he cannot reach. And even then, Cha10 is enough to help half-elf edge closer. Not to mention the 2 extra skills.

So no barbarian, bard, sorcerer, warlock. No monk because of AC. Preferably medium armor to optimize Dex14. More than mere skills, so maybe rogue's expertise.
Dude, it's a goddamn tiny difference. 5e is all about d20 swing anyway; +1 bonuses may be RARE but they're still not meaningful.

[bid]

Dude, it's a goddamn tiny difference. 5e is all about d20 swing anyway; +1 bonuses may be RARE but they're still not meaningful.
That's precisely my point. Buman advantage is meaningless and half-elf will make a better generalist for any Cha class. At worst you can shore up your dump stat with those 2 extra skills.

I will go further and say that Int12 vs Int14 is the same +1 difference for skill check. Which weakens the value of +1 to every stat.

My definition of "best use" is "better than other races (or close enough)". If you are looking for ideal circumstances where buman will shine, you must pick your class carefully. I am genuinely curious on how that can happen.

[Rhaegar]

If you're using a point buy, or standard array build, you will always find a better race than the standard human. The only place I see standard human shining is when you roll for stats, and you ended up with something like 17, 15, 13, 11, 9, 7. With a stat dice roll like that, standard human starts looking pretty good as it ends up giving you +1 in every attribute.

[danhass]

15, 14, 14, 14, 12, 11 makes for a pretty good Eldritch Knight - presuming no multiclassing. If MC is allowed, then Battlemaster + a level dip into Wizard for shield and find familiar.

[Naanomi]

I would almost never use it if V Human is available, only in the case of extreme rolled stats (all odd scores; all 18s) where there might be some value. In my opinion Varient Human is Human, only labeled Varient because feats are technically a Varient.

Of course then you can end up with mostly humans but 'mostly humans' fits most settings better than 'no humans'