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View Full Version : Optimizing a bad Fighter / Wizard.



Aquillion
2016-04-09, 07:01 PM
One of the classic traps in 3x D&D is bad multi-classing, so I was a bit curious if players could figure out a way to optimize it.

The challenge: Build a functional (and as powerful as possible) character who has an equal number of Fighter and Wizard levels, and no levels in any other class or PRC. Aside from your levels being locked into Fighter and Wizard in equal proportion, you can do whatever you like (although bonus points for a character that actually plays like some sort of variety of fighter-mage rather than just trying to salvage as much mage as possible with half your levels wasted.)

Thurbane
2016-04-09, 07:38 PM
Well, I'd say Practiced Spellcaster is a no-brainer.

Maybe the fighter ACF that let's you cast spells in armor, up to a certain level of spell?

Armored Mage, Complete Mage p.32. It's kind of rubbish really, since you have to restrict yourself to light armor and shields. You'd be better off with Mithril Twilight etc etc, armor.

JBarca
2016-04-09, 07:46 PM
This is probably not what you were going for, but the earlier you do this, the better, I'd think. At 2nd level, you have one level of Wizard, one of Fighter. You are 0 spell levels behind the Cleric, only 1 BAB behind the Barbarian, you have a couple of bonus feats on (almost) everyone, and decent saves. Go Fighter into Wizard for the HP, maybe Abrupt Jaunt so you don't need armor? Grab True Strike and Power Attack with a greatsword for a decent damage output. Or Grease/Summon Monster I with the Dirty Fighter ACF to set up your own Sneak Attacks?

I'm not sure. I realize that at 20th, you'll have 5ths and a +15 BAB and all that, but then you're competing with 9ths, and what's the point then? The earlier you are, the less your weaknesses are apparent.

MisterKaws
2016-04-09, 08:20 PM
That's just like a Bard with some lost spellcasting, but with better spells to choose from. Still viable, just not as powerful as one who had fully invested in the aberration that goes by the name of Wizard.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-04-09, 08:21 PM
Gestalt abrupt jaunt conjuror 6//dungeoncrasher fighter 6 technically fulfills the requirements...

A.A.King
2016-04-09, 09:04 PM
If you are going to pick up that many levels of fighter you definitetly want to play a primarily martial character (especially since 10 levels of wizards means you only get level 5 spells). As such I suggest making a mounted charger

Improved Familiar can get you a Winter Wolf or Hippogriff familiar by the time you reach level 9 (Wizard 4 / Fighter 5 + Practised Spellcaster for the Caster Level requirement). They make decent mounts in general but as your familiar they get to share spells with you, which gives you all kinds of great options when you consider the line: "A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast)." My favourite of these being the ability to cast Enlarge Person on yourself and share with your mount.

If you want to properly optimise this idea you could go with Changeling Wizard and the Morphic Familiar ability. That is: if you assume that Morphic Familiar + Improved Familiar means your familiar gets to switch between all standard options and all Improved Familiar you usually qualify for (if you want to fluff it you can make your 'official' familiar an Imp and just say his bond with a Changeling extremely increased his "Alternate Form" ability). This way you would at least never have to worry about fitting your mount to a door and you get to switch between things like a Winter Wolf and a Hippogriff depending on whether you need fly or not.

The Fighter levels will really help you get both Shocktrooper and Spirited Charge for some fairly decent ride-by charge damage and with wizard spells like Mirror Image (and eventually Greater Mirror Image) effecting both you and your mount you'll be a very unique rider.

Prime32
2016-04-09, 09:32 PM
First off: use the Armored Mage fighter ACF, plus the wizard ACF which trades Scribe Scroll + bonus feats for fighter bonus feats.

Be an illumnian so that you can use a different ability score for determining your bonus spells - aeshkrau use Str, and uurkrau uses Dex. You also get +2 CL (Practiced Spellcaster style) and a +2 bonus on either Str-based or Dex-based checks. Your save DCs won't be great, so focus on self-buffs like polymorph spells and fist of stone where that won't be an issue. The bonus on Str-based checks synergises well with Dungeoncrasher, so use that.

Your familiar is a bit more combat-worthy than a straight wizard's, so consider sharing polymorph spells with it and having it fight alongside you.
Alternatively, the Focus Caster ACF from Dragon #348 replaces your familiar with an item that you're automatically proficient with, which I guess could be useful for picking up spiked chains or something.

An alternative route to illumnian would be to play a gray elf with the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat from Dragon #319, which lets you use Int in place of Con for determining your hit points. You can ignore Strength through Weapon Finesse + touch spells with multiple charges (and maybe Shadow Blade, if you channel the spells through unarmed strikes).

Thurbane
2016-04-10, 12:48 AM
Not sure if anyone has suggested Southern Magician yet? Would allow you to cast in heavy armor with no ASF (a couple of times per day).

Tiri
2016-04-10, 01:09 AM
Not sure if anyone has suggested Southern Magician yet? Would allow you to cast in heavy armor with no ASF (a couple of times per day).

I don't think that's the best feat choice, since most light and medium armour can already be brought down to 0 ASF by things like Mithral, Twilight and Thistledown, and heavy armour doesn't really give enough AC over medium to be worth a whole feat, especially with all the AC-boosting wizard spells. Not to mention the fact that you would be stuck wearing heavy armour after using up the feat's daily limit.

Gnaeus
2016-04-10, 09:24 AM
I think you would generally be better taking fighter archetypes that trade away or disregard armor. In PF I would be looking at mutation warrior, maybe Eldrich guardian. 3.5 I guess thug. I'm sure there were others. Then try to play as a wierd magus. Focus on either being polymorphed (feats that give unarmed strikes or help natural attacks or increase hp/saves) (spend as much time as you can poly morphed or alter selfed, make sure you are a dragon or outsider type) or Ray based (Feats like improved initiative, improved critical (ranged touch), point blank shot and precise shot.) I'm pretty sure you could come up with a decent archer or melee damage dealer.