Designing a Crossbow user at 15th

[Thillidan]

So, the concept is similar to the Demon hunter from Diablo 3.
Basically a magical archer who uses dual hand crossbows [or I suppose a single crossbow]. Level 15 build [we don't care about 16-20, never levelling passed that]. NOT a full caster base class; ie, no Wizard, sorcerer etc. Obviously no polymorphing either. Base race is human [he won't play anything else, without GOOD reason]
Dragon magazines are banned, and online content is also not allowed. No LA classes, or Template gain from feats etc.

We're stuck trying to get Crossbows to work, but then my friend has NO experience with min/maxing, and wants to try to make this concept decent. He's playing alongside some OP casters [a Killer Gnome, a metamagic Cleric and an Abjurant Champion.] so he wants to do something with ranged weapons, but preferably not a bow.



We were thinking of scout, for skirmish? We were thinking of some of the crit builds for "Ranger" classes, such as Deepwood sniper, but for Crossbows? Potentially a rogue for sneak attacks [also we can crit and sneak attack undead in this campaign. Dont ask. Also, we basically only fight undead.]

[heavyfuel]

If you only fight Undead, then Crit/Precision Damage builds will be very hampered, as Undeads are immune to those.

Having the basis of the Ranger and getting "Favored Enemy: Undead", then the "Nemesis" feat is probably a good start.

For the actual build, I'd say you need the "Crossbow Sniper" feat from PHB2 as it adds half Dex to damage and it's not precision damage. The "Two Weapon Fighting" line of feats is a must.

Your crossbows **need** the "Self-loading" and "Quick-loading" abilities from Arms and Equipment Guide the MIC respectively, as you won't have to free your hands to reload the xbows. You may want to get "Undead Bane" crossbows as well with you WBL.

For races, I'd recommend the Strongheart Halfling as it gets you a feat, an extra attack bonus from Small, and +2 Dex, which is the ability score you must pump for damage. Human works and Elves work, but won't be as good.

[Darrin]

Here's my Crossbow Sniper Swift Hunter build that gets up to 10d6 Skirmish damage, although it's a little fiddly:

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Human: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Rapid Reload. Skirmish 1d6
4) Fighter 1. Bonus: Weapon Focus: Light Crossbow.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and sniper's shot, ask DM to let skirmish count).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2. Advanced Learning: hunter's eye (PHBII spell)
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4


Here's a variation that uses a Cloistered Cleric dip instead of a Fighter dip. With Mouqol as our deity, we can grab Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and the Trickery Devotion. With Frostblood Orc/Half-Org (Dragon Magic), we can pick up a bonus feat at ECL 5 and grab Planar Domain -> Catalogues of Enlightenment -> War domain (Planar Handbook), which gets us Weapon Focus: Light Crossbow (Mouqol's favored weapon). This opens up our 15th/18th level feats for something else, such as Extra Turning and Woodland Archer (Races of the Wild).

Race: Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc.
1) Ranger 1. Feat: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Rapid Reload. Skirmish 1d6
4) Cloistered Cleric 1. Bonus: Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, Trickery Devotion.
5) Ranger 3. Endurance -> Planar Touchstone -> WF Light Crossbow.
6) Scout 2. Feat: Crossbow Sniper.
7) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
8) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and sniper's shot, ask DM to let skirmish count).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Extra Turning. Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2. Advanced Learning: hunter's eye (PHBII spell)
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Woodland Archer (RotW). Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4


Here's a Hand Crossbow variant, trading the Fighter 1 dip with Feat Rogue 1 (Unearthed Arcana) to pick up proficiency with the hand crossbow.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Human: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 1d6
4) Feat Rogue 1. Bonus: Hand Crossbow Focus (DotU). Trade trapfinding for Poison Use or Mimic ACF.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance -> Head Endurance (Sandstorm ACF). Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and sniper's shot, ask DM to let skirmish count)).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2. Advanced Learning: hunter's eye (PHBII spell)
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4


If you're looking for something with more Ranger levels and fewer PrCs... hmm. Well, here's something like that, trading Ranger spells for some feats with the Champion of the Wild/CotW ACF (Complete Champion). However, the CotW feats are terrible and overlap with your combat style, and Improved Rapid Shot comes in a bit late, so I'm not entirely happy with it:

Race: Silverbrow Human or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Human: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Rapid Reload. Skirmish 1d6
4) Fighter 1. Bonus: Weapon Focus: Light Crossbow.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Bonus: Precise Shot (CotW ACF, Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Skirmish. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion). Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot.
12) Ranger 7. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 3d6AC+3/5d6AC+5.
13) Ranger 8. Bonus: Improved Rapid Shot (CotW).
14) Ranger 9. Evasion. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5
15) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3).
16) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
17) Ranger 10. Favored Enemy: Elementals.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Dragonfire Strike. Bonus: Improved Precise Shot. Bonus: Improved Favored Enemy (CotW). Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 7d6AC+4/9d6AC+6.

[Shnigda]

Only he's fighting mostly Undead as he pointed out. So your skirmish goes to waste (and Grave Strike doesn't help you there, as it's Sneak Attack exclusive)

OP has said that they can crit and sneak attack undead, so I would guess that this extends to all forms of precision damage?

[Darrin]

Only he "basically fights only Undead" as he pointed out. So your skirmish goes to waste (and Grave Strike doesn't help you there, as it's Sneak Attack exclusive)

Swift Hunter allows precision damage to affect your favored enemies. So if he can survive until level 7, then he should be frosty.

[Thillidan]

Our DM has a custom world, where undead are all Critable; and can take sneak attack Damage [as I said]. He thinks it makes more sense, so thats what he's running.
Thus, yeah all precision damage effects occur. A little strange, but he's happy with it [since otherwise it shuts down a LOT of potential]

Also, realised I didnt explain, he'll be "Spawning" as 15th.

[Thillidan]

Here's my Crossbow Sniper Swift Hunter build that gets up to 10d6 Skirmish damage, although it's a little fiddly:

Dude; you freaking ROCK! Holy crap; I did not expect such a detailed build response, but this is fantastic; and he can tweak it as he sees fit; But it's really nice. Cheers man. Did not think of KNowledge Devotion, but yeah, WOW!
The extra skirmish damage is awesome too. 10/10.