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View Full Version : Rebuilding... Every Class?



Xuincherguixe
2007-06-22, 07:18 AM
In the end, I'm much more likely to just build a system from scratch for a number of reasons, but...

How's this for alternate rules. Come up with a fairly sizeable list of stuff, such as Hit Points per Level (ala, 1d4), Base Attack Bonus, Partial or Full spell casting, Fighter bonus feats, Wild Shape, and all the rest.

From this list, each player could grab a certain amount of 'stuff', depending on what the GM/DM/ST/Squirrel Raiser (Not every game is in a dungeon!) decides. So, if they're feeling absolutely crazy you might end up with a Sneak attacking Barbarian that can cast Wizard Spells, and also has a Dragon as a special mount. Or for less overpowered games, things are more or less everything is on level with a Druid. Or if one is feeling cruel Monk. (I love me the Kung Fu, but that is a class with some problems dagnabbit!)


I see a lot of threads about balancing issues, and I can't help but think maybe character creation should be more open. That and limit the more outrageous spells, or at the very least certain combinations.

Maybe you like the idea of classes. Okay. The classes themselves could be built like this. You could pump up the Fighters and Monks a bit.


It would be a fairly sizable ordeal certainly, but I think it may well be the best way to deal with balance. How to fit in the hordes of savage beasts that stand against the party is harder to say. Maybe challenge ratings can adjust based on the 'pool' that you set things at. Using intentionally arbitrary classes so I don't bother to have to figure this out, maybe the Squirrel Raiser has a total of '2.5' For it's medium BaB and d8 hit dice, legion of squirrels attack, and it's ability to baffle favored victims. The Xloge Rider might count as '3.0' because of it's full BaB, d12 hit dice, special mount (the Xloge), and ability to cast partial Calculus magic (It's an Arcane magic spell list, using intelligence)

In a setting with the Squirrel Raiser, CR might remain the same. In one where Xloge Riders are the standard level, maybe the math works out that it's worth making everything -1 less.

So, in the end, it would be bit like Gestalt classes, with much more complexity.

jindra34
2007-06-22, 07:20 AM
Go play a different game (such as GURPS) your describing such a grand scale revision to a core of DnD that it would not likely end up being the same thing... but it is a good idea.

Maerok
2007-06-22, 07:51 AM
Have you checked out the generic classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) in UA. I've heard good things and bad things about it. But it sounds a lot like what you are doing, and could be the backbone or an example of what you propose. I don't see Rage, so you might need to look for/make up some additional bonus feats as they list there.

A point-based system would be interesting as well. But it'd be hard to make sure it is balanced.

kolvar
2007-06-22, 07:59 AM
go get "Buy the numbers" or "Character Customization" both available as pdf.

Xuincherguixe
2007-06-22, 08:05 AM
Have you checked out the generic classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) in UA. I've heard good things and bad things about it. But it sounds a lot like what you are doing, and could be the backbone or an example of what you propose. I don't see Rage, so you might need to look for/make up some additional bonus feats as they list there.

A point-based system would be interesting as well. But it'd be hard to make sure it is balanced.

I have seen that actually, it feels like while it gives a good range of character possibilities, it doesn't give a good range of abilities. It's not just Rage, but maybe there's some obscure class out there that can grow another mouth and cast extra spells. I'd like to have something that can easily accommodate some very strange things.

I guess though it's easier to adapt on a system like that though.



Go play a different game (such as GURPS) your describing such a grand scale revision to a core of DnD that it would not likely end up being the same thing... but it is a good idea.

I'm not sure that it not being the same thing is such a bad thing. I've got a fairly large list of problems with it. Most of the interesting stuff about D&D I've seen is when people stretch it.

d20 as a system is not that bad. But, D&D seems to be very restrictive. The settings can be awfully insipid, but it's reasonably easy to make up one. Woo, now you can have an existential quest. ("Alright players, your goal is to prove you exist!" "My character declares that he exists." "... Okay! Quest over... so much for the 50 hours I spent making fluff!")

And the classes? They just aren't that balanced. Lots of good class concepts, not very balanced.

My impression is that it would be too much work, and frankly would probably not be worth it. There's something to be said for the challenge of the task itself, but it's not a particularly sane thing to do. Mind you I'm not particularly sane, but I don't see very many compelling reasons to do this rather than just make up a lot of stuff myself. Which also has the added benefit of being even more nuts.

I've also heard good things about GURPS, but have little experience with it.

Still, I don't know. It's like this project is calling out to me. I have so many others though that aren't getting done, I don't need to add another. I guess it's something to consider doing after I've got a few of the others done.

Matthew
2007-06-22, 08:40 AM
Indeed, 'go play a different game' is not a very helpful answer.

There are often attempts to make D&D a point buy game, about twelve years ago there was the Player's Option: Skills and Powers Book, which did exactly that (and did a good job, too).

The fact is, though, that you can already run D&D as a Point Buy game, just by tweaking the Classes. Everytime Wizards come up with a new Base Class, that's exactly what they have done.

Maerok makes a good suggestion with the Generic Classes, but you may find it doesn't legislate for enough customability. Again, it's simply a matter of deciding what should and should not be done.

D&D is already almost a point buy game; all the Base Classes represent are specific templates.