Finishing Touches on my Paladin

[lordtariel]

Hi,

I'm creating a level 12 Paladin and I'd like to get some feedback on my build as well as some help finishing him off since I've never played in a 5e campaign that went above level 5.

tl;dr I need to figure out gear for my level 12 paladin. We're doing standard campaign so that means 2 uncommon magic items according to the DMG.

First question: I was thinking of picking up the gauntlets of ogre power. This would allow me to distribute points that would otherwise have gone to strength into other stats. Stat increases worth the use of one of my magic items?

Second question: Breastplate with some dex vs full plate. My GM's not a troll, but the realities of needing several minutes to get into and out of armor may come up. I'd like to hear some opinions on if the benefits of the higher AC outweigh the downsides of donning/doffing and the disadvantage on stealth?

Third question: Could I get some suggestions on some good uncommon magic items? I was thinking cloak of protection might be a good one but not sure what to do for the other. I'm open to utilitarian magic items as well as combat oriented ones.

Final Request: Could I get some people to look at my build and give me some feedback?


A little background:
I was in a group that had a long running 3.5 campaign(went from 3 to 12). Our GM at the time recently contacted all of us and said he wanted to take up where we left off, only in 5e. I played a paladin ubercharger at the time and while I don't want to go quite so min/maxed this time around, I'd like to keep the spirit of the character alive. Our old party comp was Wizard, Cleric, Ranger, and Dragon Shaman. The guy who was playing the Dragon Shaman is still up in the air about what he's going to be playing but will most likely be another front line damage dealer/off-tank.

Here's what I have built right now:

Level 12 Half Elf Paladin
Str: 16 ---(15) +1 (Half Elf)
Dex: 10 ---(10)
Con: 18 ---(13) +1 (Half Elf) +2 (Level 4) +2 (Level 8)
Int: 10 ---(10)
Wis: 10 ---(10)
Cha: 16 ---(14) +2 (Half Elf)

Skills:
Animal Handling - Don't spend a lot of time on horseback, but will occasionally deal with mounted combat.
Athletics
Insight
Perception
Persuasion
Survival

Fighting Style:

Two-Handed - Paladin smash

Background: Outlander
Fits well with my character's backstory and seemed a pretty solid pick for a background.

Feats:
Great Weapon Master - My old paladin loved to hit things with a big sword. Seemed like a good fit but not sure if it's worth the loss of the two stat points.

Oath:
Vengance - Works well with my backstory and allows for a little easier time when my party decides to play a little loose with the whole good guys thing.


Gear:
Plate Armor - considering readjusting the stats and going with half plate
Greatsword - there might be some merit to going with the maul, but I've always liked the greatsword.
Longbow - might be bad at it, but useful to have when something's hovering out of reach.

Thanks for any feedback you guys can give.

[Foxhound438]

consider polearm master. With a third attack, between hunter's mark and improved divine smite, you get a ton of value from it: 4+1d4+1d8+1d6 average 16.4 damage with your fighting style. GWM adds 20 damage but drops your hit chance by a significant amount. you might even want to drop con by 2 for PAM, as the two feats play nicely together.

For magic items, yes Gauntlets of Str are good. Cloak of prot is a good go-to if you don't have anything else you need for the build, but a +1 weapon might be the way to go for you, if it's allowed. Otherwise, consider getting yourself a good ranged option, there aren't a ton in the book but base paladin hucking javelins isn't great.

For the armor, it's definitely plate. In dungeons and in the field you won't take it off, in town you're relatively safe. Even then, breastplate still takes 5 minutes to don, so if you're caught pants-down you're fighting naked whether those pants were metal or not.

[Firechanter]

Let's be very clear here: if you create a high-level char and get to pick your own gear, starting with Gauntlets of Ogre Power is not just "good", it's extremely, absurdly, ridiculously, gamebreakingly good. Hells, you can start with Str 13 and put four more points into other attributes -- if you play your cards right, that's two feats' worth! More like Gauntlets of Over-Power, if you ask me.
I'd put the points saved into Wis and/or Dex, once Con and Cha are decked out of course.

If you really want to cheese it out, and never plan to multiclass, you could even start with Str 8 -- after all, you're never going to take off your gauntlets, are you? :p (Personally, if I was your DM and you wanted to do this, I'd flip you the bird.)

Just for reference, in our game those "fixed stats" items are altogether banned, because they break the ASI/Feat economy.

--

Your other item pick of course _definitely_ needs to be a magic weapon. Most enemies at those levels will be resistant to nonmagical damage. There's absolutely no question about that. Also, every hit chance bump is most welcome.
Greatsword + GWM is an excellent damage build with very reasonable investment.
Alternatively, Polearm Master + Glaive is also very good -- especially since you can stack PAM _and_ GWM for really strong Sustain. Purely mechanically, it's the superior option.
However, be aware that there are absolutely zero special polearms in the DMG, as opposed to a big bunch of special swords, from the modest Sword of Wounding to the glorious Holy Avenger. There are plain magic +1/+2/+3 weapons of all types, yes, but check with your DM how he intends to distribute those. Our DM, for instance, insists on rolling on a random table (from a previous edition, afaik) to determine the weapon type. We've rolled up maces, axes and swords of various types, but not a single polearm.

So long story short: if your DM is going to give you only random drops, or if you covet any kind of magic weapon beyond plain +X, polearms are not a good idea. Go for Greatsword.

--

P.S.: and as for armour: Full Plate, period. What fox said. Also, RAW there aren't even any penalties for sleeping in armour.

[Giant2005]

Screw the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength! Get yourself two potions of Hill Giant Strength! If you combine the two, there is a 1% chance that you will be able to permanently increase your strength to 21!

[Foxhound438]

Screw the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength! Get yourself two potions of Hill Giant Strength! If you combine the two, there is a 1% chance that you will be able to permanently increase your strength to 21!

my DM's typically allow players to buy magic items, so now i'm imagining my paladin talking to some kids:

"Remember, don't do drugs. Drugs are bad. Unless it's steroids. Do steroids, and you can look like me."

*bloated muscles that barely fit in armor*

*uses sword to scratch head cause he can't reach*

*falls prone because 8 dex and can't get up*

*angry at everything*

[Rysto]

So long story short: if your DM is going to give you only random drops, or if you covet any kind of magic weapon beyond plain +X, polearms are not a good idea. Go for Greatsword.

By my math, if a Paladin isn't doing PM, then the next best option at level 12 is a one level dip into Fighter for Two Weapon Fighting and taking the Dual Wielder feat, and then dual-wielding Longswords. The key thing is that improved smite kicks in 3 times if you're dual wielding, which is quite a nice boost. It does eat up your bonus action, so casting a smite spell becomes more of a trade-off. But for pure ongoing damage, a TWF significantly outperforms a GWM paladin past Paladin 11 unless the GWM paladin has advantage on his attack rolls and is hitting on a 6 or better.

[Corran]

Hi,
First question: I was thinking of picking up the gauntlets of ogre power. This would allow me to distribute points that would otherwise have gone to strength into other stats. Stat increases worth the use of one of my magic items?

Dont tailor your build too much to a magic item (eg taking the gaunlets and strating with a low str score). Magic items can be lost.

So you are a vengeance paly, 12 level. That means haste. That means, that you dont want to lose concentration while being hasten. That means one feat goes to resilient con. A second feat goes to GWM, as it plays quite well with haste, and oath of enmity will help you significantly against high AC enemies, which will typicaly be some kind of a boss. So a second feat on GWM. You third feat can go to a stat bump, but I would suggest PM, as it plays well with IDS and GWM.

Hunter's mark creates some problems with your action economy, so dont use it very often, or at all, rely on haste for conentration and use your lower level spell slots to smite or to heal after combat.

With 3 feats taken (resilient con, GWM, and PM), take the gaunlets of ogre power to raise your str to where it must be, thus helping you with the -5/+10 thing. Make sure though to start with a 16 in strength, despite taking the gaunlets, cause if you somehow lose them, you dont want to rely on sth like a 13 or 14 str, as it will not be enough.

As for your stats, you dont need a 10 in int, wasted points, leave it at 8. Start with an array like 15 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, 14 CHA, thus with halfelf and resilient puting you at 16 STR, 10 DEX, 16 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, 16 CHA.

ps: vangeance paladins work better with str builds, so full plate up all the way.
ps2: Regarding fighting style, if your DM does not allow you to reroll 1's and 2's on smite and IDS dice, you are better off with defense for that additional +1 to AC, otherwise stick with gwf style as you already planned.

[Foxhound438]

So you are a vengeance paly, 12 level. That means haste. That means, that you dont want to lose concentration while being hasten. That means one feat goes to resilient con.


resilient con also makes you more resistant to poison, necrotic effects, etc. Not a bad choice at all.

Alternatively, your Aura of Prot gives you + Cha to saves, so if you have enough ASI room, maxing out charisma gives you a total of +8 to saves for concentrating on spells. You need to nat 1 on concentration checks at that point to lose a spell, unless you get hit for 22+. Other benefit there being higher save DC so you're more likely to land your Wrathful Smites and such, as well as great saves all around for the whole team.

Maybe get war caster instead, advantage with +6 to your saves plus all the other benefits of that. Command->Grovel as your PAM entry OA is pretty good.

[Specter]

My two cents:

Strenght and Charisma are more important than Constitution. Even if you wanna invest in CON, leave it at an odd score to pick Resilient (CON) later. You don't wanna die because of a lame save.