Summon monster I-IX for 5E

[SliceandDiceKid]

I want to make the Summon monster 1-9 spells fashioned after the 3.5 spells, but obviously balanced for 5th edition and hopefully more concise than the 3.5 spell's description.

I'll edit this post as I work on it. THANKS!

-I was thinking duration concentration up to 1 minute for SM I, II, and III, 10 minutes for SM4-6, and 1 hour for SM7-9, but I might standardize it...

I'm currently doing one monster per spell to avoid drastic variation of power between options cast by the same spell.

SM1-giant wolf spider
SM2-death dog
SM3-pegasus
SM4-owlbear
SM5-chuul
SM6-bulette
SM7-chimera or drider?
SM8-shield guardian
SM9-hezrou that can't summon copy/paste paragraph from 3.5 spell.

Example:
Summon Monster I
1st level conjuration
Range 60'
Components V, S, M (something flavorful or expensive, not consumed by the spell)
Duration Concentration, up to 1 minute

This spell summons a giant wolf spider. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

If your concentration is broken, the creature(s) doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the summoned creature(s), it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack. An uncontrolled creature can't be dismissed by you, and it remains for the spell's duration.

At Higher Levels: when you cast this spell from a higher slot, the number of creatures summoned increases by one for each slot level above 1st.

[eastmabl]

1. It should just be summon monster, and should continue to scale up. You should maintain the same duration for all of these spells.

2. Given that there are conjure X spells which already exist, many of these spells seem redundant.

3. Summon Monster 3, if you will, is already more potent than Conjure Woodland Beings (4). As a third level spell here, you could summon the same creature (a pegasus) that is required of a fourth level spell.

4. Why are you summoning pretty awful monsters? Driders and hezrou are just about made out of evil.

[SliceandDiceKid]

1. It should just be summon monster, and should continue to scale up. You should maintain the same duration for all of these spells.

2. Given that there are conjure X spells which already exist, many of these spells seem redundant.

3. Summon Monster 3, if you will, is already more potent than Conjure Woodland Beings (4). As a third level spell here, you could summon the same creature (a pegasus) that is required of a fourth level spell.

4. Why are you summoning pretty awful monsters? Driders and hezrou are just about made out of evil.

1. Thank you for this specific input. I'll consider it. I had thought about that approach, but throughout the day it hasn't gone that way. This is also specifically for balance...

2. A few of these spells are the same level as some spells which conjure various creatures. I hardly think that makes them redundant. As far as wizards spells are concerned, I've only seen disheartened posts about the severe lack of summoning spells. You are entitled to your opinion. Also, the other spells are more versatile and serve purposes in more possible ways.
Edit: I'm only seeing conjure minor elementals and conjure elementals on the wizard's spell list.
Conjure celestial, conjure animals, conjure woodland beings, and conjure fey aren't as crucial here, as far as I'm concerned. I'm mostly designing this for use by wizards, sorcerers, and bards (maybe warlocks). Could see it as a cleric, as it was in 3.5, but don't care about that detail right now.

3. Thank you for the cross-reference. I'm not terribly concerned about a wizard spell being slightly more powerful than a druid's spell. I may consider changing the Pegasus out, but it's not the most terrifying opponent...

4. The spell is called summon monster, not call deer out of the woods. You are drawing an entity from another plane and exerting arcane authority over it. It's alignment isn't terribly pertinent in such a case. It is a tool while under your control. It fights your enemies. But I'll also take this into consideration as I go forward.

Thanks for the reply!

[Grod_The_Giant]

I would definitely go with the single-scaling-spell; that's very much the 5e paradigm. I'd also like to see a little more variation in options. If you really want single-monster summons, I'd rename them to something more appropriate and put in some sort of scaling bonus to the creature's stats.

[comk59]

I would definitely go with the single-scaling-spell; that's very much the 5e paradigm. I'd also like to see a little more variation in options. If you really want single-monster summons, I'd rename them to something more appropriate and put in some sort of scaling bonus to the creature's stats.

I have to agree with pretty much all of this. The spells presented in the OP stick out like a sore thumb.

I DO actually like the idea of summon that can scale up but is always the same creature. What would we call that, Summon Ally?

[Demonic Spoon]

Do these all have a casting time of 1 action?

One thing worth noting is that, as of right now, in-combat summoning is the druid's thing; that and AOE control spells are the two things that make druids stand out from other casters, so you should tread carefully here. Nothing in the OP stands out as being awful, though, especially since I think these summon options are worse than what druids get.


3. Thank you for the cross-reference. I'm not terribly concerned about a wizard spell being slightly more powerful than a druid's spell. I may consider changing the Pegasus out, but it's not the most terrifying opponent...

I don't agree that this is better Conjure Woodland Beings, but wizard summoning should absolutely not be better than druid summoning.

[comk59]

I don't agree that this is better Conjure Woodland Beings, but wizard summoning should absolutely not be better than druid summoning.

I would say that their at-will in combat summoning should certainly not be better.

But I wouldn't mind wizards having some summoning spells that have longer casting times and durations. You know, requiring magical circles and skulls and big tallow candles.

[SliceandDiceKid]

I specifically DON'T want it to be one creature that scales. That flies in the face of porting the spell from 3.5. My reluctance to consolidate SM up into one spell (rather than the series of 1-9) is to prevent someone from taking the spell and having different options based on the slot they use to cast it. Maybe (not that I'm convinced) the spell should have a table of monsters, but I haven't made it that far. I do appreciate the input I've received. But if you think it needs more critters, express what you think those might be.

[comk59]

Well, I think the spell needs to be more focused than just "summon monster". You could have a few different ones maybe, like "Summon Magical Beast" or "Summon Outsider".

I'm not a huge fan of a spell that summons Demons AND Pegasi AND large spiders. It seems unfocused.

[Rhedyn]

If you want to bring the feel of 3.x summon monster, I would go this way.

Summon Monster/Nature
1st level conjuration
Range 60'
Components V, S
Duration: 1 minute
Cast time: 1 round

Be able to cast in higher slots for higher effect.

1st level: Player selects and summons one CR 1/4 creature (outsiders and celestial/fiend animals for Monster, fey, giants, and animals for Nature)
2nd: CR 1/2
3rd: CR 1
4th: CR 2
5th: CR 3
6th: CR 4
7th: CR 5
8th: CR 6
9th: CR 7

Be able to summon two of a lower category or three of two lower categories. (For example 5th level summon monster can summon one CR 3, two CR 2s or three CR 1s or lower)

If a monster is OP for summoning, change it's CR or change it's CR for purposes of the spell.

I think tables are unneeded for 5e. 5e has a few glaring mis-CR'd monsters that can be addressed as they come up. Pixies are not even a problem for all tables. Aside from that, mini tables are just not a thing much in 5e. 5e demands more elegant solutions even if those solutions do not provide everything that is desired (animal companions).

[SliceandDiceKid]

Do these all have a casting time of 1 action?

One thing worth noting is that, as of right now, in-combat summoning is the druid's thing; that and AOE control spells are the two things that make druids stand out from other casters, so you should tread carefully here. Nothing in the OP stands out as being awful, though, especially since I think these summon options are worse than what druids get.


I don't agree that this is better Conjure Woodland Beings, but wizard summoning should absolutely not be better than druid summoning.


Thank you. I suppose I overlooked the casting time. I hadn't considered anything other than 1 action yet. Maybe if I increased duration, it could be a longer casting time, but I prefer the "we're struggling to control it for as long as we do" mentality.

So you'd say that this isn't unbalanced?

Might be a late notice, but I'm making the spells for my campaign. I'm not looking into them for my personal use.

[Asmotherion]

I want to make the Summon monster 1-9 spells fashioned after the 3.5 spells, but obviously balanced for 5th edition and hopefully more concise than the 3.5 spell's description.

I'll edit this post as I work on it. THANKS!

-I was thinking duration concentration up to 1 minute for SM I, II, and III, 10 minutes for SM4-6, and 1 hour for SM7-9, but I might standardize it...

I'm currently doing one monster per spell to avoid drastic variation of power between options cast by the same spell.

SM1-giant wolf spider
SM2-death dog
SM3-pegasus
SM4-owlbear
SM5-chuul
SM6-bulette
SM7-chimera or drider?
SM8-shield guardian
SM9-hezrou that can't summon copy/paste paragraph from 3.5 spell.

Example:
Summon Monster I
1st level conjuration
Range 60'
Components V, S, M (something flavorful or expensive, not consumed by the spell)
Duration Concentration, up to 1 minute

This spell summons a giant wolf spider. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

If your concentration is broken, the creature(s) doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the summoned creature(s), it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack. An uncontrolled creature can't be dismissed by you, and it remains for the spell's duration.

At Higher Levels: when you cast this spell from a higher slot, the number of creatures summoned increases by one for each slot level above 1st.

To make it 5eish here:

Make all of them a level 1 spell. Casting it at higher levels adds to the CR of the monsters you can summon. So...


Summon Creature:
School: Conjuration
Components: VSM
Cast time: 1 minute
Range: 10 feet
Usable By: Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock (Invocation)
Duration: Up to 1 hour (concentration)
Ingrediants: A scroll with a pendagram in the middle of which the true name of the creature summoned is wrote. It must be inscribed with rare incs worth at least 50gp per HD of the creature, and signed with the caster's own blood.

You summon a creature whose true name you know, up to 1 HD. When you learn this spell, the DM gives you the true names of 3 creatures of CR 1 or less. The nature of these creatures must be discused with your DM, and you must explain in your backstory how you obtained them. As you unlock new spell slots, your DM will give you more names that will come in the form of visions. The spell creates a one way portal in the space occupied from the creature, and speaking it's true name puts it under the charmed condition. Creatures that cannot be charmed will not obey the caster's orders and might turn hostile if provoced, but will still be summoned. When the duration ends, either because the time is up or the caster looses concentration, the creature is free of the charmed condition, but does not return automatically to the place from where it was summoned. It might remain friendly or indiferent, depending on how you have treated it. As a bonus action on your turn, you can order a summoned creature. As an action wile the duration has not expired you can dismiss a summoned creature, and it returns to the space it occupied before it was summoned. If you lost concentration or the duration of the spell has ended, and the creature is unwilling to return or hostile towards your group, you may force it to make a charisma saving throw against your spell save DC. If it succeeds, you may not try to dismiss it again for 24 hours.
At higher levels: For every spell slot above 1 you use to cast this spell, you may summon creatures of a CR up to 2 higher whose true names you know. This is the total CR of creatures you may summon, and can be divided (for example, with a level 6 spell slot, you may call forth a CR 11 creature, or any combination of lower CR creatures whose total CR is no higher than 11). You can learn more true names of creatures from demonology tomes, holly books that have the true names of angels, druidic scripts, by interogating a creature etc.


I hope this homebrew spell fits your needs. :)

[SliceandDiceKid]

Well, I think the spell needs to be more focused than just "summon monster". You could have a few different ones maybe, like "Summon Magical Beast" or "Summon Outsider".

I'm not a huge fan of a spell that summons Demons AND Pegasi AND large spiders. It seems unfocused.

Yeah, because you're harnessing forces that generally can't be controlled by people! They're frightening to the standard non adventuring person (or someone who doesn't spend more time theory crafting than roleplaying)! Summon monster! TADA! Don't fear, I've got it under control.

[SliceandDiceKid]

If you want to bring the feel of 3.x summon monster, I would go this way.

Summon Monster/Nature
1st level conjuration
Range 60'
Components V, S
Duration: 1 minute
Cast time: 1 round

Be able to cast in higher slots for higher effect.

1st level: Player selects and summons one CR 1/4 creature (outsiders and celestial/fiend animals for Monster, fey, giants, and animals for Nature)
2nd: CR 1/2
3rd: CR 1
4th: CR 2
5th: CR 3
6th: CR 4
7th: CR 5
8th: CR 6
9th: CR 7

Be able to summon two of a lower category or three of two lower categories. (For example 5th level summon monster can summon one CR 3, two CR 2s or three CR 1s or lower)

If a monster is OP for summoning, change it's CR or change it's CR for purposes of the spell.

I think tables are unneeded for 5e. 5e has a few glaring mis-CR'd monsters that can be addressed as they come up. Pixies are not even a problem for all tables. Aside from that, mini tables are just not a thing much in 5e. 5e demands more elegant solutions even if those solutions do not provide everything that is desired (animal companions).


To make it 5eish here:

Make all of them a level 1 spell. Casting it at higher levels adds to the CR of the monsters you can summon. So...


Summon Creature:
School: Conjuration
Components: VSM
Cast time: 1 minute
Range: 10 feet
Usable By: Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock (Invocation)
Duration: Up to 1 hour (concentration)
Ingrediants: A pendagram in the middle of which the true name of the creature summoned is wrote.
You summon a creature whose true name you know, up to 1 HD. When you learn this spell, the DM gives you the true names of 3 creatures of CR 1 or less. The nature of these creatures must be discused with your DM, and you must explain in your backstory how you obtained them. As you unlock new spell slots, your DM will give you more names that will come in the form of visions. The spell creates a one way portal in the space occupied from the creature, and speaking it's true name puts it under the charmed condition. Creatures that cannot be charmed will not obey the caster's orders and might turn hostile if provoced, but will still be summoned. When the duration ends, either because the time is up or the caster looses concentration, the creature is free of the charmed condition, but does not return automatically to the place from where it was summoned. It might remain friendly or indiferent, depending on how you have treated it. As a bonus action on your turn, you can order a summoned creature. As an action wile the duration has not expired you can dismiss a summoned creature, and it returns to the space it occupied before it was summoned. If you lost concentration or the duration of the spell has ended, and the creature is unwilling to return or hostile towards your group, you may force it to make a charisma saving throw against your spell save DC. If it succeeds, you may not try to dismiss it again for 24 hours.
At higher levels: For every spell slot above 1 you use to cast this spell, you may summon creatures of a CR up to 2 higher whose true names you know. This is the total CR of creatures you may summon, and can be divided (for example, with a level 6 spell slot, you may call forth a CR 11 creature, or any combination of lower CR creatures whose total CR is no higher than 11). You can learn more true names of creatures from demonology tomes, holly books that have the true names of angels, druidic scripts, by interogating a creature etc.


I hope this homebrew spell fits your needs. :)

Busy here, but I'm not ignoring your posts. Thank you in advance!

[Asmotherion]

Busy here, but I'm not ignoring your posts. Thank you in advance!

modified it slightly. Hope you like it :D


PS: is meant to work well with the mechanics of Magic Cyrcle and Planar Binding, even if the creature cannot be charmed.

[comk59]

Yeah, because you're harnessing forces that generally can't be controlled by people! They're frightening to the standard non adventuring person (or someone who doesn't spend more time theory crafting than roleplaying)! Summon monster! TADA! Don't fear, I've got it under control.

.... What? What does this have to do with me preferring to have one spell for summoning Demons and Devils and a different spell for summoning large spiders?

[SliceandDiceKid]

.... What? What does this have to do with me preferring having one spell for summoning Demons and Devils and a different spell for summoning large spiders?

"Large spider" doesn't accurately depict what the spell summons.
Giant wolf spider probably earned it's name by being a GIANT scary spider that freaked people out.

I was addressing your concern about Pegasus from one of the spells and hezrou from a different spell.

I'm taking a bit of inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons Online.

I'm less worried about celestial/fey/fiend types, but that's an easy sticker to slap onto the substance of the spell.

[SliceandDiceKid]

If you want to bring the feel of 3.x summon monster, I would go this way.

Summon Monster/Nature
1st level conjuration
Range 60'
Components V, S
Duration: 1 minute
Cast time: 1 round

Be able to cast in higher slots for higher effect.

1st level: Player selects and summons one CR 1/4 creature (outsiders and celestial/fiend animals for Monster, fey, giants, and animals for Nature)
2nd: CR 1/2
3rd: CR 1
4th: CR 2
5th: CR 3
6th: CR 4
7th: CR 5
8th: CR 6
9th: CR 7

Be able to summon two of a lower category or three of two lower categories. (For example 5th level summon monster can summon one CR 3, two CR 2s or three CR 1s or lower)

If a monster is OP for summoning, change it's CR or change it's CR for purposes of the spell.

I think tables are unneeded for 5e. 5e has a few glaring mis-CR'd monsters that can be addressed as they come up. Pixies are not even a problem for all tables. Aside from that, mini tables are just not a thing much in 5e. 5e demands more elegant solutions even if those solutions do not provide everything that is desired (animal companions).

I like this approach! It is significantly different from my initial idea and there's nothing wrong with that. I was aiming for less control over what creature the caster could pick, but this is doable and I've not seen anyone complain about your approach. Lol I agree about the monster CRs being a bit off. That's why I hand picked critters.

(In my current approach) Whether or not I have explicit tables of monsters for the spells, I'd want creatures picked out ahead of time so I didn't have to stop to check on things.


To make it 5eish here:

Make all of them a level 1 spell. Casting it at higher levels adds to the CR of the monsters you can summon. So...


Summon Creature:
School: Conjuration
Components: VSM
Cast time: 1 minute
Range: 10 feet
Usable By: Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock (Invocation)
Duration: Up to 1 hour (concentration)
Ingrediants: A scroll with a pendagram in the middle of which the true name of the creature summoned is wrote. It must be inscribed with rare incs worth at least 50gp per HD of the creature, and signed with the caster's own blood.

You summon a creature whose true name you know, up to 1 HD. When you learn this spell, the DM gives you the true names of 3 creatures of CR 1 or less. The nature of these creatures must be discused with your DM, and you must explain in your backstory how you obtained them. As you unlock new spell slots, your DM will give you more names that will come in the form of visions. The spell creates a one way portal in the space occupied from the creature, and speaking it's true name puts it under the charmed condition. Creatures that cannot be charmed will not obey the caster's orders and might turn hostile if provoced, but will still be summoned. When the duration ends, either because the time is up or the caster looses concentration, the creature is free of the charmed condition, but does not return automatically to the place from where it was summoned. It might remain friendly or indiferent, depending on how you have treated it. As a bonus action on your turn, you can order a summoned creature. As an action wile the duration has not expired you can dismiss a summoned creature, and it returns to the space it occupied before it was summoned. If you lost concentration or the duration of the spell has ended, and the creature is unwilling to return or hostile towards your group, you may force it to make a charisma saving throw against your spell save DC. If it succeeds, you may not try to dismiss it again for 24 hours.
At higher levels: For every spell slot above 1 you use to cast this spell, you may summon creatures of a CR up to 2 higher whose true names you know. This is the total CR of creatures you may summon, and can be divided (for example, with a level 6 spell slot, you may call forth a CR 11 creature, or any combination of lower CR creatures whose total CR is no higher than 11). You can learn more true names of creatures from demonology tomes, holly books that have the true names of angels, druidic scripts, by interogating a creature etc.

I hope this homebrew spell fits your needs. :)

I think the casting time of a minute with only 1 hour duration goes beyond underwhelming. It's almost unusable in the majority of situations. I like a lot of the other aspects of what you've done. I'll mull over it a bit and get back to you. The true names and developing an approved list is definitely interesting.

[Segev]

There was a debate in another thread over whether conjure woodland beings allowed the caster to choose the creature or not. I, personally, see nothing in the text that implies the caster does not get to do so. However, in older (pre-3e) editions of (A)D&D, the various monster-summoning spells were randomized.

Perhaps one way to make this spell more suitable while allowing sufficiently-strong CRs of creatures would be to have it explicitly only set the CR, with the DM choosing the creature. Phrase it something like, "When the caster summons forth the creature, he names a task to which he intends to put it. The DM selects a creature of the appropriate CR suitable to the task." Then go on to point out that it doesn't need to be used strictly for that task, but that the task-specification is there to help target the "kind" of creature summoned.

[SliceandDiceKid]

There was a debate in another thread over whether conjure woodland beings allowed the caster to choose the creature or not. I, personally, see nothing in the text that implies the caster does not get to do so. However, in older (pre-3e) editions of (A)D&D, the various monster-summoning spells were randomized.

Perhaps one way to make this spell more suitable while allowing sufficiently-strong CRs of creatures would be to have it explicitly only set the CR, with the DM choosing the creature. Phrase it something like, "When the caster summons forth the creature, he names a task to which he intends to put it. The DM selects a creature of the appropriate CR suitable to the task." Then go on to point out that it doesn't need to be used strictly for that task, but that the task-specification is there to help target the "kind" of creature summoned.

I completely agree with you regarding conjure woodland beings.

It'd be interesting to have the caster declare a purpose and the spell attempts to find a creature that best suits the purpose. I like that.

A severe limiting factor for the spell is the lack of various monsters in 5E.

I can make more, but it's time consuming. I'd rather be writing story or preparing maps and encounters...

[Asmotherion]

The main idea behind true names is both to limit the options of a player, and add more rp to the whole experiance (It's different rp wise to summon a random demon that will simply be a battle tool than to summon, let's say Mephasm, your devilish servant). (Credit to NWN2)

I thought to make it more difficult to summon in battle by making the one minute casting time. Feel free to adjust it to your campain needs though. Maybe make the durationlonger? After all it does take the users concentration slot, wich is enough of a strain.

[SliceandDiceKid]

The main idea behind true names is both to limit the options of a player, and add more rp to the whole experiance (It's different rp wise to summon a random demon that will simply be a battle tool than to summon, let's say Mephasm, your devilish servant). (Credit to NWN2)

I thought to make it more difficult to summon in battle by making the one minute casting time. Feel free to adjust it to your campain needs though. Maybe make the durationlonger? After all it does take the users concentration slot, wich is enough of a strain.

Looks fun! I'll probably make casting time longer and extend duration. Maybe 8 hours to match Mage armor? Then the caster can plan to have a minion helping him if things go south. 10 minute casting time for 8 hours maybe?

[SliceandDiceKid]

Upon further reflection, some of the ideas have grown on me. Here's where I'm at:

It's now the Summon Monster spell
(Singular, rather than 1-9)

Summon Monster
1st level conjuration
Casting time: 10 minutes
Range: 60'
Components: V, S, M (A 5'X5' scroll with a pentagram drawn on it. It must be inscribed with rare inks worth at least 300gp)
Duration: concentration up to 8 hours


This spell summons a giant wolf spider. It appears where you designate and acts on your turn. When in combat, it attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

The creature follows you (unless instructed to do otherwise) and can be dismissed by an action if you maintain control over it.

If your concentration is broken, the creature(s) doesn't disappear. Instead, you lose control of the summoned creature(s), it becomes hostile toward you and your companions, and it might attack. An uncontrolled creature can't be dismissed by you, and it remains for the spell's duration.

If the creature drops below 10% of it's hit points, the magic which summoned the creature protects it from harm, sending it back from where it was conjured.

At Higher Levels: when you cast this spell from a higher slot, the creature you bring through the portal changes depending on the slot as follows:

Level 2-death dog
Level 3-centaur
Level 4-owlbear
Level 5-chuul
Level 6-otyugh
Level 7-chimera
Level 8-shield guardian
Level 9-hydra

(This is not a finished product, but rather my current draft).