Outdated machines

[pickledillusion]

Should I have posted this in Friendly Banter??

Anyway, the credit card machines we use in our shop is so outdated now. Not only is it slow but I'm afraid that it may have security issues as well (though I've never had any security problems so far). So I'm looking for a new one right now that is decent in its speed in processing sales and can accept digital wallet payments as well since my current ones don't. Any suggestions?

[halfeye]

Is it broken?


If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[BannedInSchool]

Is it broken?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6a/9a/9d/6a9a9d5cbb3e0365c1ba8804c01192e3.jpg

[Knaight]

Is it broken?

It sounds like it's failing its design parameters (speed, probably security), which makes whether it is broken or not more about the semantics of what constitutes broken than anything.

[Drumbum42]

Is it broken?

Ok, so when dealing with Credit Card security, that doesn't really give me a warm and fuzzy.

Target: 40 Million Cards stolen (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/05/the-target-breach-by-the-numbers/)
P.F. Chang's: ~300k Cards stolen (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/06/banks-credit-card-breach-at-p-f-changs/)
Home Depot: 56 Million Cards stolen (http://www.wsj.com/articles/home-depot-breach-bigger-than-targets-1411073571)

And so on......

Also, if I remember correctly credit card companies are starting to lay blame on the owner if they don't use things like "chip and pin" which is becoming standard in the US. Now, chances are that this will never happen, BUT as a customer I feel better when the card reader wasn't using security from an age when windows XP was that new flashy thing.

ps: Krebs on security is a great site for seeing more info on this (I read it all the time): http://krebsonsecurity.com

[Tyndmyr]

Square works pretty good. I'm fond of it's integrated inventory, etc as well.

Good option, if you don't have an integrated POS at present. If you do, well, upgrade path is likely restricted. Explore your options.

[TheThan]

How about trashing it and going cash only?

It saves you money in not having to buy a new credit card machine. It potentially saves customers from having to pay excess credit card fees and transaction fees. And it automatically defeats credit card fraud. Not to mention the only way to steal from you and your customers is to physically rob you/ them.

The down side is that it’s not as convenient and it takes a little bit less mindless (in my mind that’s actually an advantage but not everyone would agree). But are those advantages worth the inconvenience of carrying cash?

I’ve always believed so and yeah I pay for things in cash as much as I can. Now some might complain about it; and there’s no way to get around that. Their frustration is what they get for not being bothered to read signs.

[blunk]

That's a pretty specialized question. Seems like you'd have better luck looking on sites (or trade publications) for merchants, talking to your current vendor, etc.

But who knows, you could get lucky here.

[Jay R]

How about trashing it and going cash only?

...

The down side is that it’s not as convenient and it takes a little bit less mindless (in my mind that’s actually an advantage but not everyone would agree). But are those advantages worth the inconvenience of carrying cash?

The biggest downside is lost sales. Any customer who walks in without enough cash walks out without buying anything. This could very easily be the majority of your sales.


Not to mention the only way to steal from you and your customers is to physically rob you/ them.

Think it through; this is not an advantage. At the end of the day, you will have more cash in your store than anyone else, and the robbers will know it. It's the only way to steal from you, all right, but it's also far more valuable to do so.

[Tyndmyr]

How about trashing it and going cash only?

It saves you money in not having to buy a new credit card machine. It potentially saves customers from having to pay excess credit card fees and transaction fees. And it automatically defeats credit card fraud. Not to mention the only way to steal from you and your customers is to physically rob you/ them.

The down side is that it’s not as convenient and it takes a little bit less mindless (in my mind that’s actually an advantage but not everyone would agree). But are those advantages worth the inconvenience of carrying cash?

I’ve always believed so and yeah I pay for things in cash as much as I can. Now some might complain about it; and there’s no way to get around that. Their frustration is what they get for not being bothered to read signs.

In many areas and markets, this is not even vaguely reasonable.

I would estimate about 90% of my business is done via credit card, for instance. Swapping back to cash only is a suicidal business model for most.

[Knaight]

But are those advantages worth the inconvenience of carrying cash?

I’ve always believed so and yeah I pay for things in cash as much as I can. Now some might complain about it; and there’s no way to get around that. Their frustration is what they get for not being bothered to read signs.

This is a case for carrying cash as a customer, not only accepting it as a merchant. On the merchant side, this is financial suicide, as there are a lot of people who make a point of not using cash for things.

I like cash as a customer, and every time there's a new credit card leak I like it a little bit more, but there's not enough people with our preferences out there to support most stores.

[cobaltstarfire]

I was taught that it's really best to have both cash and a credit card available in case of emergency.


Don't most people use Debit cards now though? They use the same machine as a credit card, but don't have as many risks as a credit card does if it gets lost/skimmed/stolen.

[Lethologica]

I was taught that it's really best to have both cash and a credit card available in case of emergency.


Don't most people use Debit cards now though? They use the same machine as a credit card, but don't have as many risks as a credit card does if it gets lost/skimmed/stolen.
Don't they? My cursory understanding is that credit cards are more secure since you aren't actually handing out the keys to your bank account--you're handing out the keys to a third-party account that you pay into, and the third party can insulate you from fraudulent use more easily than the bank can. I suppose the risk is that a stolen credit card allows the thief to spend up to the limit, whereas a debit card can 'only' cost you what you have.

[BannedInSchool]

In many areas and markets, this is not even vaguely reasonable.
It's not about doing something reasonable. It's about doing the right thing. If that's not going to produce a desirable result then it's the world's fault for being wrong, and you should still do it. :smallwink:

[Jay R]

It's not about doing something reasonable. It's about doing the right thing. If that's not going to produce a desirable result then it's the world's fault for being wrong, and you should still do it. :smallwink:

First you have to show that it's the wrong thing. You can't just assert that it's a bad thing and then use that as a reason to reject all the evidence showing that it's a good thing.

[cobaltstarfire]

Don't they? My cursory understanding is that credit cards are more secure since you aren't actually handing out the keys to your bank account--you're handing out the keys to a third-party account that you pay into, and the third party can insulate you from fraudulent use more easily than the bank can. I suppose the risk is that a stolen credit card allows the thief to spend up to the limit, whereas a debit card can 'only' cost you what you have.

Yeah I've also been told that one shouldn't keep all their money in their checking account, specifically for that reason.

Fortunately these days banks are all too happy to help you reverse issues with both credit and debit cards as long as you catch it quickly enough, I'm not sure which one will hurt your credit more if it gets stolen and used.

I haven't had any issues so far with any of the cards I use, though the guy has had to replace his debit card twice. Whenever mass data leaks have happened (like at Target in the guys case) his bank automatically deactivated his card and sent him a new one before he had even heard of the leak.

[Leewei]

Ok, so when dealing with Credit Card security, that doesn't really give me a warm and fuzzy.

Target: 40 Million Cards stolen (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/05/the-target-breach-by-the-numbers/)

...

Also, if I remember correctly credit card companies are starting to lay blame on the owner if they don't use things like "chip and pin" which is becoming standard in the US. Now, chances are that this will never happen, BUT as a customer I feel better when the card reader wasn't using security from an age when windows XP was that new flashy thing.

ps: Krebs on security is a great site for seeing more info on this (I read it all the time): http://krebsonsecurity.com

I worked at Target HQ during the breach. Krebs is an excellent site for situations like this one. He broke the story and provided great insight into what had happened and how (and eventually who did it).

One thing the various breaches have in common is malware on the point-of-sale devices (i.e. the card readers) distributed over the stores' networks from their headquarters. The thieves needed access to the headquarters' systems to pull this off, and had to devote a substantial amount of time and effort toward that end. Mom and pop stores are unlikely to be victimized by these crooks because there just isn't much to be stolen.

It's still a good idea to get something more modern because the toolkits developed by these thieves are making their way into the hands of less-skilled criminals. The time may someday come when small retailers have this information stolen. More immediately relevant, your customers will love you for protecting their credit card numbers, and the credit card companies will not be able to stick you with the bill for fraud.

[halcyonforever]

Most often the credit card machine comes through the processor - or is limited to a selection from them. So if you are tied in with a processor you will be stuck with their options. Much like a cable modem / provider limit.

I've looked at square but I think their fees are higher because they anticipate a lower volume.

[pickledillusion]

No, they aren't broken and I'm not trying to fix them. They are outdated though so I'm trying to replace them with newer ones with better security and better features.
I'm looking into Square but I'm leaning more to TSys (http://tsysmerchantsolutions.com/) since they work pretty great as well. The bookshop besides my shop uses them so I've seen them in action.