Orphan Black in Absalom: Can It Be Done?

[Palanan]

Within the existing Pathfinder rules, is there a way to create a series of independent clones, à la Sarah and her sisters in Orphan Black?

I'm aware of the Clone spell, but that only creates a single duplicate to replace the original, and I'm looking for a way to propagate entire batches--genetically identical, yet each with an independent, self-aware and fully functioning personality. Can it be done?

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[Palanan]

So, is there really no way to do this in Pathfinder?

Would this require something closer to a template or a racial subtype?

[inuyasha]

There is always the Simulacrum spell and it's variants. I suppose if you wanted a character for this you could play an Alchemist with that one archetype in Ultimate Magic, I believe it's called the Clone Master?

[Palanan]

No, I don't want illusions or simulated duplicates--I'm looking for a way to generate humans who are physically identical, but each with their own mind, personality, talents, etc.

For another example, think the different models of Cylons from BSG. I'm looking to create a whole line of people whose bodies are mirrors, but whose minds are unique.

[Xuldarinar]

I think we have to consider something here.
The sisters in orphan black do not have a true separate original, but are instead based on one of the genetic codes possessed by a chimera. What we are looking for here, as a result, isn't to make copies of one individual but to create a group of identical individuals.

My vote would make all the clones Androids, but replace some of the racial traits, namely the Emotionless racial trait in all of their cases (except maybe for Helena, because reasons).

[mabriss lethe]

Not PF, but in Lost Empires of Faerun in 3.5, there's a monster called a Deepspawn. It can regurgitate clones of anyone it devours. The clones retain the original's hardwiring (classes, skills, feats, etc.) but have only a dim recollection of the original's memory. If the Deepspawn were to use this power to spawn humanoid infants, it could lead to what you want.

[Coidzor]

Alchemical Simulacra?

[Zanos]

You could kill the clones, then animate the corpse into some form of sentient undead, or a non-sentient one and awaken it.

[Haladir]

Are you asking as the GM or as a player?

If you're the GM, you can just say it happens by whatever means works best for the story: alchemy, dimensional manipulation, arcane magic, divine intervention, androids, clockwork creatures... the sky's the limit.

For plot elements, don't be constrained by the rules!

If you're a player... well, that's a different story.

[meschlum]

Polymorph any Item could be used to ensure the copies are identical (a +10 to look like yourself is fairly good, after all).

Use Stone to Flesh and Stone Shape, plus high Craft (sculpture) for identical appearances?

With a little GM approval, use flesh to ooze (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/flesh-to-ooze) to get copies of your original (via dispel magic after causing the original to split, or grow and then split). Technically, you get the original and an ooze, but reverting to (possibly mindless) body is an option.

Start with an animal or tree, Awaken it, then sculpt it into the desired shape, via one of the methods above (researching an Awaken Ooze spell would be highly convenient here). If you're working with plants, a variant bodythief (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/bodythief) that can make more than one copy of an original might be exactly what you're after!

[Inevitability]

1. Find a living, corporeal being with a skeletal system. This will be our 'template' creature.
2. Reduce the template creature's wisdom score to 0 through ability drain, to prevent its personality and memories from changing during the process.
3. Kill the template creature.
4. Reanimate the template creature as a zombie.
5. Destroy the zombie.
6. Cast Resurrection to return the template creature to life.
7. Cast Revive Undead to return the zombie to unlife.
8. Repeat from step 3 on until the desired number of copies has been created.
9. Cast Awaken Undead on all copies at once.

You end up with a virtually limitless number of sentient undead who are the same down to their individual memories.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Xuldarinar
What we are looking for here…isn't to make copies of one individual but to create a group of identical individuals.

Exactly this.


Originally Posted by Xuldarinar
My vote would make all the clones Androids, but replace some of the racial traits, namely the Emotionless racial trait in all of their cases (except maybe for Helena, because reasons).

What?! Helena is full of emotions. She loves Jesse, she loves her babies, she loves lighting fires, she loves gouging eyes out, and she especially loves razor-sharp and pointy things. Helena's got all kinda love. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Mabriss Lethe
Not PF, but in Lost Empires of Faerun in 3.5, there's a monster called a Deepspawn. It can regurgitate clones of anyone it devours.

Thanks for the reminder about this one. Not quite what I'm looking for right now (I want fully functional and self-aware minds) but definitely worth saving for later.


Originally Posted by Zanos
You could kill the clones, then animate the corpse into some form of sentient undead, or a non-sentient one and awaken it.


Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge
You end up with a virtually limitless number of sentient undead who are the same down to their individual memories.

Given that this is the Playground, I really should've specified I'm not looking for options involving undead. :smallsigh:

[Xuldarinar]

What?! Helena is full of emotions. She loves Jesse, she loves her babies, she loves lighting fires, she loves gouging eyes out, and she especially loves razor-sharp and pointy things. Helena's got all kinda love. :smalltongue:


Granted, but her emotions differ on some levels given her upbringing. IF anyone of them it was appropriate to have that trait apply to (not that it is truly accurate) it would be her.


Should we consider her to have weapon focus in the paper cutter, or just consider her to have Catch Off-guard? I'd think the latter but she does seem to be... overly effective with one.

[Palanan]

I figured it was EWP: Paper Cutter, although you could definitely argue she has a couple levels of brawler and picks up oddball feats as needed.

:smalltongue:



More seriously, and back on topic, it sounds as if there isn't a specific way to pull off mass cloning within the Pathfinder ruleset.

Mu ha.

.

[shaikujin]

Would PAO -> Black Pudding work?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by shaikujin
Would PAO -> Black Pudding work?

I have absolutely no idea what that is, what it involves, or whether it would provide what I'm looking for.

[shaikujin]

I have absolutely no idea what that is, what it involves, or whether it would provide what I'm looking for.

Apologies, I mean cast Polymorh Any Object (PAO) to turn into a type of Ooze type monster called Black Pudding.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/blackPudding.html

Black Pudding has an Ex ability called "Split". Piercing and Slashing weapons make it split into 2 identical Black Puddings, each with half current HP. Note that this is current HP, not max HP.

Keep using a piercing or slashing weapon to Split until current HP is below 10, heal back up and repeat as desired.

Dispel or wait for the Polymorph Any Object spell to expire on each split copy, and revert back to original form.

Voila, you now have a mass amount of clones that have full individual autonomy. Each of the same level as original, having the same memory at the point of splitting. These are real clones and not illusions.



Thing is, I am not very familiar with Pathfinder. PF seems to have nerfed some of the polymorph/shapechange abuses found in 3.5. But I think PAO work still work for this though.

[Gildedragon]

Make a bunch of paper golems
Incarnate Construct them
Wait that's 3.5....
Does Origin of Species exist in PF?
Alternatively Wish.

Also I think I read something about using a mirror of opposition. Put someone in a bag, grab the bag, get duplicated with the bag (and the bag's contents) since the person in bag wasn't directly duplicated they remain their original alignment... Or something like that

Another 3.5 option
Maybe MoO someone, take them into plane of mirrors. Kill mirror image of MoO creation, and original's mirror image. MoO original vanishes but their mirror image remains (they weren't created by MoO. Get out of plane of mirrors. Use another pair of ordinary mirrors to reproduce effect