Conan...the Barbarian?

[JellyPooga]

Inspired by the "Barbarians as a Race" thread and the fact that I watched C the B the other day, I got thinking about Conan in D&D terms and realised that although he is the iconic Barbarian, in D&D he probably wouldn't have any levels in Barbarian...one or two at most.

Have a think. He's not illiterate, in fact he's actually quite well educated (in a way), so that rules out pure Barbarian (unless he wasted some skill points on becoming literate). He doesn't 'Rage' as such except possibly once or twice in the Pit fights (and that only in the earlier fights...his later fight show a lot of restraint). About the only pure Barbarian features that Conan has are the incredible toughness (DR, d12 HD), he's more skilled than a straight Fighter would be given his intelligence (4+Int skill points, better list) and he's very aware of his surroundings in a fight (Uncanny Dodge).

His background as a Pit Fighter might warrant a couple of levels of Barbarian, but I'd be more inclined to make them Fighter levels because Barbarians get more skill points and he didn't learn anything but combat during those years. After the Pit fighting, he was sent to be trained by the greatest weaponsmasters of the East...this is going to translate as more Fighter levels, though maybe a level of Monk might not be amiss, especially given his 'Discipline of Steel' which may also translate as some of the Monks abilities.

So, though it is only my interpretation, here is my chronological progression for Conan "the Barbarian":

Levels 1-5)Barbarian - This is Conan as a kid and later as a Pit Fighter. His fighting style is crude, but effective. He shows little restraint, but few get the drop on him. He's one tough mutha.
Level 6 + 7)Fighter - Coming out of the Pit Fights, Conan is trained well, his martial technique improves, but little else. His alignment at this point changes slowly to Lawful and thus he loses his Rage ability.
Levels 8, 9 and 10)Monk - Trained by the weaponsmasters of the East and driven by the Discipline of Steel, Conan becomes a living weapon and is also educated in philosophy and mathmatics, among other things.
Levels 11+)These levels are everything after he escapes, so I'm not entirely sure, but it's possible that he either alternates Monk and Fighter levels, or just takes Fighter or just Monk levels (though Monk levels would not exceed 6, I doubt he gets the abiltiy to heal his own wounds at any point). It's even possible that he gets a level or two of Rogue (through his association with Mako). At some point he loses a level through being ressurected (possibly), but it has little effects on his 'build'. Prestige Class-wise, he might qualify for Exotic Weapon Master with that Bastard Sword he uses, likewise, the Mage Slayer class might be appropriate, given his grudge against a Sorcerer.

So, at level 10, my Conan looks like this:

Barbarian 5/Fighter 2/Monk 3

Rage 2/day (unusable due to Lawful alignment)
Trap Sense +1
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Fast Movement (+10ft)

Unarmed Strike (1d6)
AC Bonus (+Wis mod. +0) [He takes off his armour to fight people]
Flurry of Blows
Improved Grapple [He is Mr. Grapply-doo]
Evasion
Combat Reflexes [If Conan doesn't have it, who does?]
Still Mind [He's resistant to Thulsa Dooms enchantments]
Unarmoured Speed Bonus (+10ft)

Power Attack [Obviously]
Endurance [Pushing the 'Wheel of Pain' all those years has to amount to something]
Diehard [He is definitely hard to put down]
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword [The sword he uses throughout the film is a Bastard Sword]
Two Weapon Fighting [In the Pits, he uses two weapons simultaneously]
Cleave [He goes through mooks like a hot knife through butter]
Improved Bull Rush [He's bound to have this, he's just too big not to]

So there we are then, anyone disagree with my sentiments? Comments? I'm not really looking for any paticular opinions, I just thought I'd state my own.

[Piccamo]

You could also use Superior Unarmed Strike from ToB to represent becoming a living weapon. The other bits could be shown with knowledge ranks.

[Jayabalard]

Just for reference: There were a couple of AD&D modules with Conan; since in AD&D there wasn't a barbarian unless you had unearthed arcana (or oriental adventures, maybe it was in both), they statted him out as a fighter/thief in order to give him all roguish skills (climbing, trapfinding and so on) in addition to fighting ability.

his background is barbarian; his first few levels would certainly be in that.

After that I'd agree, he went more of a trained fighter, so fighter levels would be appropriate.

But I'm not so sure on the monk bit... I'll have to go back and do some reading and re-watch a movie or 2

[Spiryt]

Strange, i always have impression that D&D class ( at least in 3.5) is based on Conan. Powerful warrior, but also Trap sense e.c.

And why pure Barbarians should be illiterate? It's only two skill points.

[Matthew]

Nah, not Monk. Maybe Kensai. It all depends on your view of Conan, of course, and which version of his Biography you follow. I could see a level of Barbarian, followed by Fighter and a smattering of Rogue. In fact, I think that's roughly how he was statted out with a advent of D20. Conan D20 has the answer somewhere.

[Dan_Hemmens]

Strange, i always have impression that D&D class ( at least in 3.5) is based on Conan. Powerful warrior, but also Trap sense e.c.

It almost certainly was, but that doesn't mean they made a good job of it.


And why pure Barbarians should be illiterate? It's only two skill points.

Two skill points you could spend on something else.

Two skill points is a +2 modifier, which is actually quite a lot in D&D.

[Matthew]

Found it: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/kingconan.pdf

Looks like they went with fifteen levels of Barbarian.

This fan site (which somebody referenced in another Thread about this) has a different view: http://www.enworld.org/Inzeladun/conan.htm

[Iku Rex]

Conan doesn't really work as a DnD character, since he doesn't depend on magic equipment. Anyone interested should check out the Conan RPG (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=7). It has a unique d20 system designed for the Hyborian age.

Mongoose has the 20th level King Conan stats (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/kingconan.pdf) [pdf] on their website:


Medium-Size Humanoid (Cimmerian barbarian 15/
soldier 2/thief 1/pirate 2)

Hit Dice: 10d10+50+15+6+2+4 (137 hp)
Initiative: +20 (+6 Dex, +14 Refl ex save)
Speed: 25 ft.* (plate armour)
DV (Dodge): 29 (+13 level, +6 Dex)
DV (Parry): 25 (+7 level, +8 Str)
DR: 14 (+10 plate armour, +2 visored helm, +2 natural)
Attack: Greatsword +26 melee; or Bossonian longbow +24
ranged
Full Attack: Greatsword +26/+21/+16/+11 melee; or
Bossonian longbow (+8) +24/+19/+14/+9 ranged
Damage: Greatsword 2d10+8, or Bossonian longbow
1d12+8

Special Attacks: Ferocious Attack, To Sail A Road Of Blood
And Slaughter, Sneak Attack +1d6/+1d8, Sneak Attack Style
(broadsword), Greater Crimson Mist, Versatility (profi cient
will all weaponry, double threat range)

Special Qualities: Fearless, Bite Sword, Trap Sense +5,
Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Mobility,
Improved Mobility, Greater Mobility (not usable in current
armour), Damage Reduction 2/-, Seamanship +1 (+1 to DV
on board ship), Pirate Code (Baracha Rockets and Smoke),
Trapfinding, Barbaric Code of Honour.

Space/Reach: 5 ft. (1)/5 ft. (1)
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +20, Will +13 (+16 vs.
Corruption, +15 vs. fear or Terror)

Abilities: Str 26, Dex 22, Con 21, Int 20, Wis
19, Cha 21

Skills: Balance +16, Bluff +28*, Climb +20, Decipher Script
+13, Hide +15, Intimidate +15, Gather Information +10,
Jump +10, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Knowledge (geography)
+15, Listen +13, Move Silently +25, Perform (song) +6,
Profession (sailor) +12, Ride +15, Search +8, Sense Motive
+14, Spot +13, Survival +15, Swim +13

Feats: Track, Diehard, Endurance, Fighting-Madness,
Leadership, Sleep Mastery, Dabbler (Counterspells), Striking
Cobra, Navigation, Combat Expertise, Improved Sunder,
Greater Sunder, Improved Trip, Brawl

Possessions: Greatsword, superior black-painted plate
armour (maximum Dex bonus +3), superior visored helm,
arming sword, poniard, Bossonian longbow, 24 arrows.

The above possessions and game statistics assume Conan is
fully prepared for war, and attired accordingly. If attacked
at his palace, he might be unarmoured, and if expecting
something more like a skirmish than all-out war, he is more
likely to wear a simple mail shirt or mail hauberk than the
full plate armour he is given here. Although Conan has
had access to Akbitanan weapons at times during his career,
he does not appear to use them when king of Aquilonia,
presumably wielding Aquilonian-made weaponry instead.

...

(Edit: I see Matthew beat me to it.)

[Deepblue706]

What's with the absurdly-high mental stats? Conan did some clever things, but he was also a complete dork.

[Matthew]

Dunno. Not that sure how he got Strength 26 either. Check out the alternate Fan builds posted above. I think they give him too low an Intelligence at 12 (I'd have said 14), but I guess it all comes down to your own view

[Telonius]

Mental stats ... depends on which version of Conan you're looking at. In the original Robert Howard stories, I'd put him as an Int of 16. 18 is pushing it, and 20 is too high, imo.

[JellyPooga]

Nah, Conan isn't brainy by a long shot. He's educated, which makes him think a lot, but he has to think about something a lot to make any conclusions.

He's not an intelligent man, just thoughtful. High Intelligence is indicative of being able to make conclusions quickly or come up with original thought. Conan can do neither, but he is certainly not dim.

I'd peg him at around the 9 to 12 mark myself (9 if you're feeling harsh, 12 if you're feeling generous).

As far as Strength goes, he should, by all rights have a base Strength of 18, which may or may not increase as he goes up in levels (thus 23 would be possible at level 20). Given that he is not magically enhanced in any way, 23 is the highest possible Strength that Conan can possess.

As for other Stats, this is what I'd assign to my 10 level build:
Str: 18 (+1 @ level 4) = 19
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 10 (+1 @ level 8) = 11
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Str and Int I've explained my reasoning. Dex - He's quite light on his feet, but nothing particularly exceptional. Con - He's one tough mutha, but possibly not so much that it warrants an 18...I get the impression that there are tougher people out there. Wis - He's certainly not slow on the uptake and quite aware of his surroundings...about 14 seemed right. Cha - He's not a great orator and nor is he persuasive, but he's physically attractive (well...he's supposed to be) and his evident competance at what he does makes him a natural leader.

Oh yeah, just for reference, I'm basing this entirely off of the Film.

[Iku Rex]

What's with the absurdly-high mental stats? Conan did some clever things, but he was also a complete dork.The Conan RPG gives PCs +1 to all ability scores at level 6,10,14 and 18, in addition to the usual +1 every 4 levels. Conan also gets +2 Str and -2 Int from his race.

"Str 26, Dex 22, Con 21, Int 20, Wis 19, Cha 21" means starting scores of "Str 22, Dex 18, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 17" before you subtract the regular +5 from levels. Say +2 Str, +2 Int and +1 Dex, leaving us with "Str 20, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 17". Everything beyond that is experience enhancing his natural talents.

Remember, this is the Conan from the books, not the movies. He has barbarian instincts (Wis 15+). He has a wide set of skills and speaks many languages, and he's a skilled tactician (Int 14+). He can take over a ship or a barbarian horde practically on a whim and women throw themselves at him at every opportunity (Cha 17+).

Edit: I forgot the Cimmerian racial adjustments. Changed post appropriately by lowering starting Int and putting more points into Int as Conan matures. :smallredface:

[Tallis]

Well, I'm most familiar with the comic version of Conan. Based on that I would not give him monk levels or lawful alignment. I'd go Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue, mostly barbarian. His alignment would be neutral or chaotic neutral with some good tendencies.

[Damionte]

Conan isn't a barbarion his whole career. He starts off as a barbario, he is later formally trained a s a fighter, he learns to read and write, and then becomes a rogue after he's given his freedom.

Also misconceptions asside, conan is not stupid. he just sounds stupid due to his actors accent. It's kind of the Sylverster Stallone syndrome. Stallone is no idiot, in fact he's definately smarter than the avg joe. That accent and drawl though make him sound so stupid that it's just the way he comes off.

[Lapak]

Book Conan was cunning and adept with languages, but not hugely book-smart. Even late in his career, he wasn't the most able writer in the world. On the other hand, he had a fantastic sense of what not to do in any given situation and massive strength of will. I'd peg him as average-Int, high-to-very-high Wis, and assume he spends a fair amount of skill points on languages.

He definitely had force of personality in spades, so he had high CHA.

I'm going to go slightly against the grain on his physical stats - he was probably slightly above average in DEX, around 13 or so, but his endurance gets played up a lot more than his strength in the books. He is overmatched in raw muscle many times and has to work around that problem, but he endures and endures and endures through both hardship and injury. I'd say Strength in the 15-16 range at the start of his career and CON of 18.

[Iku Rex]

Some quick quotes found through a listing of online Howard books (http://arthursclassicnovels.com/arthurs/howard.html).


I'm going to go slightly against the grain on his physical stats - he was probably slightly above average in DEX, around 13 or so, ...From The Phoenix on the Sword. (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600811h.html)

The room was large and ornate, with rich tapestries on the polished-panelled walls, deep rugs on the ivory floor, and with the lofty ceiling adorned with intricate carvings and silver scrollwork. Behind an ivory, gold-inlaid writing-table sat a man whose broad shoulders and sun-browned skin seemed out of place among those luxuriant surroundings. He seemed more a part of the sun and winds and high places of the outlands. His slightest movement spoke of steel-spring muscles knit to a keen brain with the co-ordination of a born fighting-man. There was nothing deliberate or measured about his actions. Either he was perfectly at rest--still as a bronze statue--or else he was in motion, not with the jerky quickness of over-tense nerves, but with a cat-like speed that blurred the sight which tried to follow him.Blurry cat-like speed > Dex 13.


I'd say Strength in the 15-16 range at the start of his career and CON of 18.From Shadows in Zamboula (http://arthursclassicnovels.com/arthurs/howard/zamb10.html) (emphasis mine)
Slightly taller than Conan and much heavier, Baal-pteor loomed before him, a daunting image of muscular development. His mighty arms were unnaturally long, and his great hands opened and closed, twitching convulsively. Conan released the hilt of his imprisoned sword and fell silent, watching his enemy thorugh slitted lids.

"Your head, Cimmerian!" taunted Baal-pteor. "I shall take it with my bare hands, twisting it from your shoulders as the head of a fowl is twisted! Thus the sons of Kosala offer sacrifice to Yajur. Barbarian, you look upon a strangler of Yota-pong. I was chosen by the priests of Yajur in my infancy, and throughout childhood, boyhood, and youth I was trained in the art of slaying with the naked hands -- for only thus are the sacrifices enacted. Yajur loves blood, and we waste not a drop from the victim's veins. When I was a child they gave me infants to throttle; when I was a boy I strangled young girls; as a youth, women, old men, and young boys. Not until I reached my full manhood was I given a strong man to slay on the altar of Yota-pong.

"For years I offered the sacrifices to Yajur. Hundreds of necks have snapped between these fingers -- " he worked them before the Cimmerian's angry eyes. "Why I fled from Yota-pong to become Totrasmek's servant is no concern of yours. In a moment you will be beyond curiosity. The priests of Kosala, the stranglers of Yajur, are strong beyond the belief of men. And I was stronger than any. With my hands, barbarian, I shall break your neck!"

And like the stroke of twin cobras, the great hands closed on Conan's throat. The Cimmerian made no attempt to dodge or fend them away, but his own hands darted to the Kosalan's bull-neck. Baal-pteor's black eyes widened as he felt the thick cords of muscles that protected the barbarian's throat. With a snarl he exerted his inhuman strength, and knots and lumps and ropes of thews rose along his massive arms. And then a choking gasp burst from him as Conan's fingers locked on his throat. For an instant they stood there like statues, their faces masks of effort, veins beginning to stand out purply on their temples. Conan's thin lips drew back from his teeth in a grinning snarl. Baal-pteor's eyes were distended and in them grew an awful surprise and the glimmer of fear. Both men stood motionless as images, except for the expanding of their muscles on rigid arms and braced legs, but strength beyond common conception was warring there -- strength that might have uprooted trees and crushed the skulls of bullocks.

The wind whistled suddenly from between Baal-pteor's parted teeth. His face was growing purple. Fear flooded his eyes. His thews seemed ready to burst from his arms and shoulders, yet the muscles of the Cimmerian's thick neck did not give; they felt like masses of woven iron cords under his desperate fingers. But his own flesh was giving way under the iron fingers of the Cimmerian which ground deeper and deeper into the yielding throat muscles, crushing them in upon jugular and windpipe.

The statuesque immobility of the group gave way to sudden, frenzied motion, as the Kosalan began to wrench and heave, seeking to throw himself backward. He let go of Conan's throat and grasped his wrists, trying to tear away those inexorable fingers.

With a sudden lunge Conan bore him backward until the small of his back crashed against the table. And still farther over its edge Conan bent him, back and back, until his spine was ready to snap.

Conan's low laugh was merciless as the ring of steel.

"You fool!" he all but whispered. "I think you never saw a man from the West before. Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man -- like this!"

And with a savage wrench he twisted Baal-pteor's head around until the ghastly face leered over the left shoulder, and the vertebrae snapped like a rotten branch.I'm going to go with a well-above average Str here. :smallsmile:

[Fawsto]

Guys, don't overate Conan or any other Character you turn into D&D just because Epic Level handbook says so.

Conan is,at most, a lvl 8 character. Assuming with it, that he is one of the best among the best fighters in his world.

And as was properly stated, he is not a straight Barbarian. I can see some Fighter levels there. But not monk. Definatly, not Monk.

[Macrovore]

Have a think. He's not illiterate, in fact he's actually quite well educated (in a way), so that rules out pure Barbarian (unless he wasted some skill points on becoming literate). He doesn't 'Rage' as such except possibly once or twice in the Pit fights (and that only in the earlier fights...his later fight show a lot of restraint). About the only pure Barbarian features that Conan has are the incredible toughness (DR, d12 HD), he's more skilled than a straight Fighter would be given his intelligence (4+Int skill points, better list) and he's very aware of his surroundings in a fight (Uncanny Dodge).

you basically described a straight Warblade.

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

Guys, don't overate Conan or any other Character you turn into D&D just because Epic Level handbook says so.

Conan is,at most, a lvl 8 character. Assuming with it, that he is one of the best among the best fighters in his world.

And as was properly stated, he is not a straight Barbarian. I can see some Fighter levels there. But not monk. Definatly, not Monk.

I definatly Agree, that the Conan that people think of, cimmerian wanderer is definatly around level 6-8. However, saying Conan got to 15 or so is not that unlikely- if you follow his chronology, you get nearly half a century of adventure, and an older man who can still beat mythical amounts of a@@ without the use of magic items.

[Matthew]

The Conan RPG gives PCs +1 to all ability scores at level 6,10,14 and 18, in addition to the usual +1 every 4 levels. Conan also gets +2 Str and -2 Int from his race.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.

Anyway, for D&D purposes, I would go with an initial array of:

Conan (Barbarian 1)
Strength 18, Dexterity 15, Constitution 18, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14, Charisma 15,
Feats:
Skills: [28 Points]
Equipment: Long Sword