Heat Metal spell question

[CrackedChair]

Alright, so I go to a 3 man D&D question once a week to play out a story. The party consists of a Fighter (Me), A bard, and a Cleric.

Now, most foes we fought were armored enemies wearing some form of chain shirt or whatnot, so the bard of the party picked up Heat Metal to deal a good bit of damage each turn to the enemies. But I was thinking about something...

See here, heat metal can heat ANY metal, right? Such as the one in my sword? Well, let's say that I allow the bard to heat up the blade of my longsword. Would this allow me to deal extra fire damage when it hits something? Or will it just burn my hand off if I use it? Would there be any way to grasp the sword then, in any case?

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

The spell specifically mentions "Object being held", so you would be taking damage, and you'd have to make a CON save to not immediately drop the sword. Not what you want at all.

[CrackedChair]

Ah, well, I guess you are right then, thanks.

But I can still figure out a way to protect myself from the heated metal, right? Maybe put some insulation on the handle and hilt as to keep it from burning?

[Zethus]

Honestly that's up to you and your DM. You wielding a sword that's also very hot may be worrying, but with enough insulation I wouldn't say it's impossible. Maybe the weapon die + 1d8 Fire damage, but you'd also take that damage unless you specifically are equipped to ward against it, and I doubt oven mitts are a thing in preindustrial fantasy environments. Even if they were, the metal is red hot, so the mitts wouldn't do much but catch fire. Plus, that kind of heat makes the metal malleable, causing it to bend and break much easier. I wouldn't recommend it, logically, but if you can convince your DM, that's all you.

Blacksmiths use tools to specifically keep themselves from getting burned and hold the cooler parts. I doubt you could wield a sword properly holding it with tongs.

[CrackedChair]

Hmm.. when you put it that way, I do think physics would deter me greatly for this.

Y'see, I got the idea for this combination when Playing Chrono Trigger, which introduces dual techs, which allow 2 characters to use a skill to deal a devastating attack. One attack was just like I described, heating up a sword, which allows you to deal physical damage and fire damage.

But it looks like science wins the day once again, now I feel a bit silly. Thanks for the answers, guys!

[Zethus]

Hmm.. when you put it that way, I do think physics would deter me greatly for this.

Y'see, I got the idea for this combination when Playing Chrono Trigger, which introduces dual techs, which allow 2 characters to use a skill to deal a devastating attack. One attack was just like I described, heating up a sword, which allows you to deal physical damage and fire damage.

But it looks like science wins the day once again, now I feel a bit silly. Thanks for the answers, guys!

I mean, while that would be fun, D&D doesn't really enable that apart from very specific skills from Bard and the Wizard (and other mage classes but meh), and even so those aren't very... combo-oriented. I'd LOVE to have a system like that, but D&D isn't the engine for it. If it was more like a video game, perhaps, yes. For example; a character with the power to see different outcomes based on decisions made and a character who can time travel could perhaps use their powers to not simply time travel, but to reverse an action completely from a timeline, erasing any chance of a paradox and creating no alternate timelines.

[RulesJD]

Tell the bard to always keep some crappy daggers around for use with this spell.

If you run into an enemy with no metal on them, cast it on the blade, sink it/throw it into the target, and then snap the blade off inside the enemy. Bam, still get the damage + disadvantage.

[Temperjoke]

Hmm.. when you put it that way, I do think physics would deter me greatly for this.

Y'see, I got the idea for this combination when Playing Chrono Trigger, which introduces dual techs, which allow 2 characters to use a skill to deal a devastating attack. One attack was just like I described, heating up a sword, which allows you to deal physical damage and fire damage.

But it looks like science wins the day once again, now I feel a bit silly. Thanks for the answers, guys!

Well, maybe instead of a sword, you might try this with a glaive, spear, or halberd? I mean, there is the risk of the shaft burning, but if the DM allows it, then the metal end could be heated and be used a safe distance from yourself.

[CrackedChair]

Well, maybe instead of a sword, you might try this with a glaive, spear, or halberd? I mean, there is the risk of the shaft burning, but if the DM allows it, then the metal end could be heated and be used a safe distance from yourself.

Well, that could work, but as somebody else pointed out, heated metal is still pretty malleable, and if my DM knows that, if I try using the halberd or Glaive, then it very well may break when it strikes.

It's honestly all up to the DM when it comes to what happens, anywho.

[Temperjoke]

Well, that could work, but as somebody else pointed out, heated metal is still pretty malleable, and if my DM knows that, if I try using the halberd or Glaive, then it very well may break when it strikes.

It's honestly all up to the DM when it comes to what happens, anywho.

This is true, although if you're using Heat Metal on your weapon instead of your opponent, then they're probably unarmored.

Ooh, think of the intimidation factor! Someone poking at your face with a red-hot spear point is not a fun prospect.

[CrackedChair]

Im probably gonna have to give props for that, it is rather intimidating.

I guess I might as well ignite my fantasy by just hopefully finding a Flametongue sword out of some loot...

[Temperjoke]

Just keep a flask of oil that you pour on your sword before combat, then have someone cast Prestidigitation on it to light it. Bonus points for keeping a second flask of potent alcohol to blow across your flaming sword to breathe fire at your enemy.

[JeffreyGator]

Maybe your (lore?) bard can pick up elemental weapon at level 6 for your purposes.

+1 to hit and +d4 elemental damage and you don't hurt yourself with it.

[CrackedChair]

That does sound like a plan, he's still level 4, though, so it might take a few Redshirt smacking for him to get it.

Also, Love that idea of using the oil flasks. I might see myself using it next session.

I mean, it's just stuff like that, that brings out the ADOM or Nethack player in me, you got all these options and all these items that do various things, and the only limit is your imagination... and by proxy, the DM's.

[RickAllison]

The gnomish katar! Wooden handle with a detachable blade. The blade is actually the scissors katar that releases the catch on the blades when they fan out. The scissor blades provide resistance to keep it in the body (especially with some barbs...). A niche tool, but potentially useful.

[MBControl]

Okay, so buy a bag of 1000 ball bearings.

I don't think I need to say the rest. Infact, there are a ton of fun things you and your buddy can do now.

- bad guy stumbling around and falling on red hot ball bearings.
- torture an enemy by putting a ball bearing in each nostril.
- use them in a sling? not sure if that works.
- a bucket of smoldering bearings propped above a door like the ol' bucket of water trick.
- if somebody has mage hand, this just got stupid.

[krugaan]

The gnomish katar! Wooden handle with a detachable blade. The blade is actually the scissors katar that releases the catch on the blades when they fan out. The scissor blades provide resistance to keep it in the body (especially with some barbs...). A niche tool, but potentially useful.

And the ever popular dwarven not-quite-"hammer-of-thunderbolts"-harpoon!

Features include:

- Barbed metal head, lodges inside the victim, perfect for heat metal!
- trailing wire with convenient loop to secure to wrist, automatic hit for those shocking grasp / lightning bolt / call lightning spells!
- erm ... "stylish" dwarven engineering! Looks good with beards!
- almost as good as a hammer of thunderbolts (according to some)!
- buy two, get the next one half off with qualifying purchase! (restrictions may apply)

[CrackedChair]

Okay, so buy a bag of 1000 ball bearings.

I don't think I need to say the rest. Infact, there are a ton of fun things you and your buddy can do now.

- bad guy stumbling around and falling on red hot ball bearings.
- torture an enemy by putting a ball bearing in each nostril.
- use them in a sling? not sure if that works.
- a bucket of smoldering bearings propped above a door like the ol' bucket of water trick.
- if somebody has mage hand, this just got stupid.

Ohhhh yesss... this will go nicely when we resume our campaign.

I'll be sure to ask for some when we stop by a town!

[INDYSTAR188]

Hmm.. when you put it that way, I do think physics would deter me greatly for this.

Y'see, I got the idea for this combination when Playing Chrono Trigger, which introduces dual techs, which allow 2 characters to use a skill to deal a devastating attack. One attack was just like I described, heating up a sword, which allows you to deal physical damage and fire damage.

But it looks like science wins the day once again, now I feel a bit silly. Thanks for the answers, guys!

Love that game! It might make for a pretty wild (and awesome!) campaign.

[JackPhoenix]

You must spent a bonus action to do damage to the creature in physical contact the heated piece of metal, so heated weapon propably won't work (up to the DM if he allows that). Without that, the "heated" weapon is perfectly safe to touch.

It does't make much sense, but that's magic for you


Okay, so buy a bag of 1000 ball bearings.

I don't think I need to say the rest. Infact, there are a ton of fun things you and your buddy can do now.

- bad guy stumbling around and falling on red hot ball bearings.
- torture an enemy by putting a ball bearing in each nostril.
- use them in a sling? not sure if that works.
- a bucket of smoldering bearings propped above a door like the ol' bucket of water trick.
- if somebody has mage hand, this just got stupid.

You can heat one metal object...so, sadly, no bag of ball bearings, but only one of them.

[CrackedChair]

You must spent a bonus action to do damage to the creature in physical contact the heated piece of metal, so heated weapon propably won't work (up to the DM if he allows that). Without that, the "heated" weapon is perfectly safe to touch.

It does't make much sense, but that's magic for you



You can heat one metal object...so, sadly, no bag of ball bearings, but only one of them.
Well, there goes my excitement...

[MBControl]

I would say, since metal is a conductor of heat, if all the metal is in contact with each other, heating one would heat the others.

Talk to your DM. It's his call.

[Zethus]

I would say, since metal is a conductor of heat, if all the metal is in contact with each other, heating one would heat the others.

Talk to your DM. It's his call.

That's not how that works at all. Heat =/= electricity. Metal does conduct heat, but hitting someone with a sword wouldn't cause their armor to also become glowing red-hot. If anything, some fire might spring up briefly or a burn mark might be left. Even if the sword was stuck in the armor, the entirety of the armor wouldn't become hot, it'd be localized and spread slowly.

[CrackedChair]

Really, I've would not have expected this much thread participation for what started out as a simple question to keep my fighter from winning a Darwin Award.

Actually, you know what, let's just keep thinking up clever uses for Heat metal. Our bard's 2nd level spell slots are going to be so used after we get done with the story.

[Zethus]

Really, I've would not have expected this much thread participation for what started out as a simple question to keep my fighter from winning a Darwin Award.

Actually, you know what, let's just keep thinking up clever uses for Heat metal. Our bard's 2nd level spell slots are going to be so used after we get done with the story.

As was previously stated, heating a dagger which is then thrown or perhaps even a crossbow bolt (if you do it fast enough) that stay in the target could work. Really I think the only way it would work is by transferring a manufactured metal item to another creature, then activating Heat Metal. Otherwise you're at risk.

[CrackedChair]

As was previously stated, heating a dagger which is then thrown or perhaps even a crossbow bolt (if you do it fast enough) that stay in the target could work. Really I think the only way it would work is by transferring a manufactured metal item to another creature, then activating Heat Metal. Otherwise you're at risk.

I guess I gotta use the Ready action to proc an attack once the bard casts the spell to do it quick enough so I don't burn myself.

There's also the chance of missing completely, thereby wasting a spell slot...

Interesting, never really found much use for ready until now.

[SharkForce]

why don't you just make sure the metal object is firmly embedded in the target *first* and then have the bard cast heat metal? 0.o

[CrackedChair]

why don't you just make sure the metal object is firmly embedded in the target *first* and then have the bard cast heat metal? 0.o

Well, the plan was never really thought out.

There's also the problem with the target trying to pull it out. Most enemies we faced were humanoids and thus a dagger should be simple to pull. Granted, they have to succeed on a CON saving throw just to keep a grasp and pull it, but it's just the oft chance they will succeed, which makes it cool, but inefficient sometimes.

Unless we get a dagger that is especially hard to pull out of a body, we might just have to keep saving the spell for armored foes.

[Segev]

why don't you just make sure the metal object is firmly embedded in the target *first* and then have the bard cast heat metal? 0.o

Get yourself a barbed adamantine chain-link net, perhaps? Drop it on somebody and then let the bard cast heat metal.

[CrackedChair]

That sounds sick, and awesome at the same time.

Man, this talk about heat metal is slowly turning me into a psychopath.

[Orion3T]

Hitting someone with a heated sword isn't going to deal any significant extra damage unless the contact lasts a half second or so. It deals damage in the described use because of prolonged contact. If heated to red-hot temperatures it's likely to be softened enough that blows against armour etc will deal significant damage to the sword.

There's even some chance a hot blade will deal less damage as it could cauterise any wounds it causes, reducing bleeding.

Sounds like fun though, while the usage described in the spell sounds cool I do also think this spell has potential for creative use. There's no rule for using it on metal armour IIRC, but it seems that ought to be a legitimate use and have some effect. Maybe it would become a concentration spell and deal increasing damage each round. 1d4 first round and increasing by 1 die per round. Something like that anyway.

I just wouldn't be inclined to use it on my own blade.

[Segev]

Actually, using it on metal armor is an example in the spell. (http://www.5esrd.com/spellcasting/all-spells/h/heat-metal)

[Orion3T]

Actually, using it on metal armor is an example in the spell. (http://www.5esrd.com/spellcasting/all-spells/h/heat-metal)

Oops my bad, that's what I get from going by memory. I stand corrected. I guess I didn't notice or dismissed the option thinking the weapon was the obvious choice.

I would not use it on my own armour either though. :smallbiggrin:

[RickAllison]

Oops my bad, that's what I get from going by memory. I stand corrected. I guess I didn't notice or dismissed the option thinking the weapon was the obvious choice.

I would not use it on my own armour either though. :smallbiggrin:

What about a Battlerager Barbarian? Heat your armor, slam into them for extra damage!

[CrackedChair]

What about a Battlerager Barbarian? Heat your armor, slam into them for extra damage!

That sounds amazing. A barbarian who took the totem path of the bear can wear some metallic medium armor, take a tavern brawler feat, smack em with an axe, then give them a big, warm hug.

This is just as ridiculous as dual wielding lances.

[krugaan]

That sounds amazing. A barbarian who took the totem path of the bear can wear some metallic medium armor, take a tavern brawler feat, smack em with an axe, then give them a big, warm hug.


They can't wear armor and get their unarmored armor bonus.

They could have, like, nipple rings or something?

[SharkForce]

They can't wear armor and get their unarmored armor bonus.

They could have, like, nipple rings or something?

you don't need the unarmoured bonus unless you don't wear armour. barbarians work perfectly fine in armour anyways.

[Daishain]

Elemental warding is common enough that a gauntlet/glove enchanted to let you hold a blade regardless of its temperature would not be at all out of the question. But at that point, it would be much easier to just enchant the weapon directly.

[CrackedChair]

Elemental warding is common enough that a gauntlet/glove enchanted to let you hold a blade regardless of its temperature would not be at all out of the question. But at that point, it would be much easier to just enchant the weapon directly.

Our bard is close to level 6, so he might pick up elemental weapon spell(?) soon enough. I'm not forcing him though, although it is a rather good spell for any party with a melee oriented class.

[MBControl]

That's not how that works at all. Heat =/= electricity. Metal does conduct heat, but hitting someone with a sword wouldn't cause their armor to also become glowing red-hot. If anything, some fire might spring up briefly or a burn mark might be left. Even if the sword was stuck in the armor, the entirety of the armor wouldn't become hot, it'd be localized and spread slowly.

This was in reference to a bag of ball bearings, not a hot sword hitting a shield or armor. I agree the sword thing would make no sense.

[Mith]

It would amount to the same thing though. Even though you would be heating the same amount of metal, the spell only targets one piece of metal, so it doesn't work. The silly thing is that it effects the entirety of a targets armour IIRC, so it is also an inconsistent spell.