Eldritch Scion vs Bloodrager

[Estralita]

I love the magus class.A lot. One of my minor goals in gaming is to try out as many of the magus archetypes as I can. And considering that one thing that bugs me about playing one at the moment is the need to prepare all my spells beforehand, Eldritch Scion seemed like an obvious choice.

However, poking around, I've seen mixed reviews, and little actual instruction on how to play an Eldritch Scion, and since I'm relatively new to PF, I'm concerned about putting one together properly. I've also seen a lot of people talking about Bloodragers as being better for the part, but they seem to play pretty different to me. So How do they compare?

For the record, we'd be starting at level 9.

[Psyren]

They're apples and oranges; go with the one whose playstyle you prefer, there is no clear "better one." The Bloodrager is a specific style of gish - the buff up and smash things kind, as opposed to the swords-and-sorcery-blend kind. Their superior martial chassis (full BAB, bloodline powers, less need for mental stats, and ability to buff for free while entering a bloodrage) make them better suited to that style of play. Magi meanwhile are better spellcasters (5ths and 6ths, more utility things like divinations, more debuffs like stinking cloud/enervation, more blasting spells), and most of their damage comes from spell combat and spellstrike rather than from a buffed physical attack. Against some monsters (e.g. ones with high spell resistance or energy immunity) the bloodrager will shine, but the magus brings more to the table overall with its ability to control the battlefield, deal with ranged foes, deal with swarms etc. This also depends heavily on the spells you choose, the bloodlines you pick (some good ones are worse on the ES due to the need to enter Eldritch Focus to use their powers), the arcana you pick, other archetypes you mix in etc.

[Estralita]

The reason I ask is that I've seen people say, when someone asks about ES, " They suck, play a Bloodrager/Sorcerer " I want to see how accurate that is.

I'm thinking Destined Bloodline. Does it work with Fate's Favored?

[Firebug]

The most trouble people have with the Eldritch Scion is that they look at it from the standard Magus Optimization perspective. That is, Intensified/empowered/etc Shocking Grasp spam. And with a metamagic cost reducer on Shocking Grasp to keep it as a 1st (or 2nd with both) level slot. This is a near non-starter as an Eldritch Scion because they are a spontaneous caster that means that Intensified Shocking Grasp is a full-round action and not the standard action that Spell Combat requires. There are a couple ways around it (spontaneous metafocus feat, the metamagic-like arcanas). Also, the fact that until level 8 (which you will be skipping) it costs you a pool point to spell combat. And that you cannot spend pool points to get spells back, which can effectively increase your total spells per day. Incidentally, the normal Magus spells per day and the Eldritch Scion(Bard)'s spells per day are the same. And the loss of skill points, because you won't have as high of an Int since you are now Charisma based.

But you do get some cool things as an Eldritch Scion. You never have any 'wasted' spell slots per day because you can always cast something useful whereas if you were a regular magus you might find out that you didn't really need that feather fall/spider climb/daylight today. If you do decide to go the Spontaneous Metafocus route you can convert every higher level spell down into Intensified/Empowered Shocking Grasp if you wanted. The bloodlines add a bunch of interesting things, but most of the effects are only active while in Mystic Focus, which takes a swift action to activate. A lot of your pool powers also require swift actions so they are at a premium... and some of the bloodline effects are also swift actions so you actually can't use them until round 2 of Mystic Focus. If you have a preferred set of spells that you plan on using all the time, then Eldritch Scion (or Mindblade) is a better option, because either you will be saving the pool points that you would have been using to re-memorize your favorite spells, or you will have more versatility in a day because the regular Magus decided to memorize 5 shocking grasps and no other 1st level spells, while you can still cast just as many and have another 5 options for your 1st level slot. Essentially, as a spontaneous caster you have more freedom to choose 'just in case' type spells.

As far as the bloodlines go:
Abberant: Reach 5' increase, crit to stagger
Abyssal: Auto Enlarge Person, claws
Arcane is effectively "I spend a swift action to buff myself with haste/displacement + blur/protection from arrows/resist energy/spider climb for 2 rounds"
Black Blood: Reach, cold resist, bonus on certain saves
Celestial: Bless as a spell known, your attacks bypass DR/Good, once every 2 rounds reroll a save/skill/ability check
Destined: Luck to AC/Saves while in focus, 1 reroll every 2 rounds on an attack roll
Draconic: Claws some resist energy/nat armor, breath weapon 1/day
Elemental: Bonus movement type fly/burrow/swim/+30 land while in focus, resistance to 1 element
Fey: Entangle, Hideous Laughter as spells known, crit to confuse, charge through difficult terrain, blur if you move more then 10', level 12 auto-haste
Infernal: Bonus to saves, fire resist
Kyton: Persuasive Goad, Pain Strike as spells known, crit to sicken, climb speed, resist cold and "armor bonus" for free
Undead: False Life as spell known, charge to shaken, free ghost touch, cold resist, dr/- for non-lethal

From personal experience, I usually saw the Magus in the party (12-18) spend about 1/2 of his pool points every day rememorizing spells. In one particular case, to cast dimension door 4+ times in a row to get the party up to where the "rogue" (barbarian/rogue) was scouting by himself for some reason and found himself face to face with 'dragon' type creature at the top of a 1000' cliff and the rest of the party literally 1 mile away... from the base of the cliff.

[Psyren]

The reason I ask is that I've seen people say, when someone asks about ES, " They suck, play a Bloodrager/Sorcerer " I want to see how accurate that is.

There's no "accuracy" to that either way, it's a preference. It's like someone saying "lattés suck, drink a cappucino instead." For them, lattés do suck, but unless you share their preferences that doesn't mean anything.

If you're looking for tier, both are 3 (albeit the Bloodrager being lower because it has a harder time contributing out of combat, though it's still better off than the Barbarian and Ranger.)


I'm thinking Destined Bloodline. Does it work with Fate's Favored?

Yep!



But you do get some cool things as an Eldritch Scion. You never have any 'wasted' spell slots per day because you can always cast something useful whereas if you were a regular magus you might find out that you didn't really need that feather fall/spider climb/daylight today.

While I definitely agree with this, I will point out a tactic that prepared casters too often forget - leave spell slots empty! It only takes a few minutes to fill them in during the day. If you find yourself needing something situational, you can then drop it in. This is most useful for divinations (if the party gets stuck) and traversal spells like spider climb or invisibility sphere. Often, the time it would take for you to prep your silver bullet spell and quickly bypass the obstacle is equal or less to the time it would take you to try and overcome whatever it is manually, and usually much less risky.