Looking for ideas for pokemon style monster "Evolution" for the 5e monsters.

[Rfkannen]

The basic concept is that in the next game I am running, weak types of monsters can become stronger types of monsters like adventures have class levels. For example, a strong enough goblin becomes a hob goblin, which then becomes a bugbear, which then becomes an ogre. And then if the ogre knows learns magic it can turn into an oni.

Any ideas for other monster evolution?

ps. Oh also different kids of monsters can evolve into the same type. like both bugbears and orcs can become ogres. (Still not sure about whether bugbears should be able to turn into ogres.)
pps. Also, spiting paths would be cool. Like turning into different kinds of monsters based off of conditions.

[Arkhios]

Excuse me while I nitpick, but Ogre isn't a goblinoid. They are technically related ti giants instead.

I would rather keep the evolution within some boundaries. It just doesn't make sense to evolve from a goblinoid to giant and eventually to fiend.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Excuse me while I nitpick, but Ogre isn't a goblinoid. They are technically related ti giants instead.

Yeah but have you seen some of the Pokémon evolutions? Sometimes they have quite weird and make no sense.

Geodude > Graveler > Golem

So first you are a rock that can fly hover and have two arms.

You evolve and gain 4 arms and two legs. You can no longer fly hover.

If you evolve again (through a trade no less..) you lose two arms and are part lizard.

Also, as you level up you learn to make yourself explode...

So a goblin becoming an Ogre is a bit more logical haha.

[Joe the Rat]

Neat thing is that several of those (goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, gnolls, kuo-toa, dragons... probably a few more I'm forgetting) have stage/level versions. Goblins can upgrade to Goblin Boss, Hobbos have the Captain and Warlord options (which are FAR better than going Ogre).

Some other thoughts: Mud and Dust Mephits could become Gargoyles.
Magma and Steam mephits become fire worms, which become salamanders.
Orcs become Orogs become Ogres, which bifrucate into Ettins, or grow into Hill Giants.

[Rfkannen]

Excuse me while I nitpick, but Ogre isn't a goblinoid. They are technically related ti giants instead.

I would rather keep the evolution within some boundaries. It just doesn't make sense to evolve from a goblinoid to giant and eventually to fiend.

Yeah It might be a good idea to remove the ogre from that line, I kind of like the idea of goblins becoming a powerful monster, but ogre might not be the right one. It might be good to have ogres evolve from something to if I did get rid of the goblin ogre link though.

I think that I would keep ogre into oni though. Just because oni used to be called ogre mage.

[Arkhios]

Frankly, I find pokemon stupid anyway ;)

[Rfkannen]

Yeah but have you seen some of the Pokémon evolutions? Sometimes they have quite weird and make no sense.

Geodude > Graveler > Golem

So first you are a rock that can fly hover and have two arms.

You evolve and gain 4 arms and two legs. You can no longer fly hover.

If you evolve again (through a trade no less..) you lose two arms and are part lizard.

Also, as you level up you learn to make yourself explode...

So a goblin becoming an Ogre is a bit more logical haha.

lol yep. I guess one small humanoid into a bigger humanoid is less hard to beleive than geodude.


Neat thing is that several of those (goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, gnolls, kuo-toa, dragons... probably a few more I'm forgetting) have stage/level versions. Goblins can upgrade to Goblin Boss, Hobbos have the Captain and Warlord options (which are FAR better than going Ogre).

Some other thoughts: Mud and Dust Mephits could become Gargoyles.
Magma and Steam mephits become fire worms, which become salamanders.
Orcs become Orogs become Ogres, which bifrucate into Ettins, or grow into Hill Giants.

Oh I had not thought of level versions, that is useful. Thank you for pointing that out. IS a hobgoblin warlord really stronger than an ogre? I am away from book at the moment.

Good idea with the mephits, also I like the idea of an orc becomeing a hill giant, and then maybe working up the giant scale, all the way up to tempest!

[R.Shackleford]

lol yep. I guess one small humanoid into a bigger humanoid is less hard to beleive than geodude.

Make sure some Ogres can will themself to explode and pass out and you will be right on track.

[SlothIllusion]

Re:Monster a manga about a dude reincarnated as a goblin has a great example of this
https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0351/70/1411911636657.jpg

[Joe the Rat]

Instead of making it a line, I'd be inclined to Eevee the hill giant - you can branch into one of the five elemental giants (rock, fire, ice, air, water)

If you really want to get freaky, Devil "Promotion" really captures that "These are related?!" quality. Imp-Spined-Horned-Pit Fiend has some aesthetic connection, but the gap from Horned to Pit Fiend is pretty large. Bone seems like a distracting shift, but it's that or Malebranche are Magikarp.



Oh I had not thought of level versions, that is useful. Thank you for pointing that out. IS a hobgoblin warlord really stronger than an ogre? I am away from book at the moment.

Ogre's physically stronger, but a warlord will wreck one in one-on-one combat. The warlord has more than double the hit points, better AC and attack bonuses, three attacks to the Ogre's one, and an ability to boost his AC by 3 (to 23! if he's using a shield) against one attack... which is all the ogre gets. If you give the warlord a buddy (A standard hobbo who does nothing but dodge will work), he can pull martial advantage and do more damage on one of his attacks than the ogre can.

If you get the Oni evolution, then it favors the Oni heavily. Regeneration and at-will invisibility are a nasty combo.

[quinron]

An Orc is like a Tyrogue: If its Strength is higher, it evolves into an Ogre; if its Intelligence is higher, it evolves into an Orog. Ogres evolve into Hill Giants, Orogs into Onis. Once it's turned into a Hill Giant, it evolves again based on its environment: Fire, Frost, Stone, Storm, or Cloud.

[R.Shackleford]

Once it's turned into a Hill Giant, it evolves again based on its environment: Fire, Frost, Stone, Storm, or Cloud.

Only if you repeatedly hit it in the face with a fire/ice/lightning/wind stone until it evolves.

[supergoji18]

Orc -> Ogre -> Oni
Kuo-toa -> Aboleth -> Kraken
Flameskull -> Demilich -> Lich
Imp -> Horned Devil -> Pit Fiend
Quasit -> Glabrezu -> Balor
Barlgura -> Goristro
Zombie -> Revenant -> Death Knight
Aarakocra -> Couatl
Shield Guardian -> Iron Golem
Troglodyte -> Tarrasque (the magikarp -> gyarados of this setting)

[GanonBoar]

frankly, i find pokemon stupid anyway ;)
blasphemy!

[Knaight]

If you're going for bizarro metamorphosis*, it might help to do some building from the ground up, particularly with monster types that work really well for this (anything gelatinous, elementals, etc). Beyond that though, there's the whole matter of in setting justifications. The changes are generally bizarre, rarely make sense, and often have no setting backing. This isn't necessarily a problem, but it might as well be worked with. You also wanted a system involving branching both in and out of different categories. As such, I suggest the following.

The Great Chains of Being
The Chains, Conceptually: In the world, there is a natural order of things. The gods are on top, below them their greatest servants (e.g. angels, demons), below them humans, below them other animals (with some being better than others), below them plants, and at the bottom, minerals. At least, that's a natural order of things, and it's the way humans like to see it. The truth is much messier. Just about every god has their own natural order, instituted from on high, trickling down. There's a couple cases of old and primal magic unfettered to anything that could be called a mind yet possessing a will, which creates another natural order. These orders are largely separate, but there are places where they bleed into each other, where creatures feel the structure of several disagreeing chains at once.

The Chains, Mechanically: Pick a bunch of gods, forces of nature, really significant people, etc. Build a chain of being under each of them, breaking them up into layers. Everything from one layer can ascend (see below) into everything one layer up. Creatures can appear on multiple different lists, and when going up a layer may permanently remove themselves from one list, cutting off access to everything above it.

Ascent: For most, the chains of being are an unimportant concept. There's what belongs to what god, which comes up in thinking about the afterlife. There's the occasional bit of magic, spell or natural, which interacts with particular chains of being. Still, for the vast majority of creatures, it just doesn't come up. For the greatest of their kind though, their present form is just something holding them back, that they are strong enough to shed. It is possible to rise on the chains of being, moving up one layer on the list. How this is done varies - powerful magical rituals, divine favor, or sheer might and strength of will. What works depends on the god or force.

Drift and Pull: There are those that aren't rooted in just one chain, existing in a state of instability. These creatures are frequently renowned for their potential, and prone to abruptly drifting into one great chain or another, frequently rising high. More than that though, there are those strong enough to pull others. The gods themselves pull all in their chain, with the drifters being those pulled multiple ways. Yet there are lesser beings with lesser pull that can still have a great effect. The blessing of an angel can be a pull, into a slightly changed creature. The curse of a powerful fae can be a pull, shifting one towards the chains replete with fae or animal. Then there are the likes of necromancers, who borrow the power of a chain not their own, and pull others into it.

The Undead: There are several chains that can pull one in, entwined deeply with other chains. Of them the best known is the undead, a chain which can reach almost every other creature, given a strong enough pull from one who borrows the power of the chain. Then there are those who drift into it. What happens to the dead is in dispute, but reincarnation among their chain or joining the god at its head are considered the likely normal fates. The danger of the chain of undead is that it bypasses this, and once one is in it's very hard to get out.

Chain Effects: If using The Great Chains of Beings, use them thoroughly. Any effect previously aimed at a type of creature (e.g. Humanoids) is instead moved to a set of chains.



Natural Chain: The Protean
The Protean are a teeming group, made of distributed minds not bound to one body, bodies not bound to one form, and great piles of materials at the bottom of the chain, rising and merging into creatures above, and being thrown back down from those creatures. There are branches of The Protean, beings so distinct that while in one branch they can flow up and down the chain with surprising ease, crossing a branch involves an intricate ritual. Still, it can be done. The spirit of The Protean binds them together.

Assembling the Protean: First, build the branches. Ooze, Elementals, and anything possessing a hive mind can probably be safely chucked into the Protean. They are all distinct branches, but they can be shifted into each other. Does it seem weird? Absolutely. That's the Protean for you.

Special Rules: While it is typical for creatures to possess a unity of self, the members of The Protean Chain often do not. In addition to rising up the chain as individuals, it is possible for creatures of the Protean to merge, ceasing to be separate entities and becoming something newer and stronger. It is also possible for creatures of the Protean to split, decaying down the chain as new minds are born out of fragments of a greater psyche, into what all too often is a small piece of their flesh.

Divine Chain: The Winter Court of Mab
The fairy queen Mab is technically not a goddess, and rumor has it she was once a tiny pixie, on the chain of The Wild Glade. She rose up that chain though, becoming greater and greater. Then, with powerful magic, she broke it. Still a member of that chain, she somehow created a new one with no head, made a position atop it, and then moved in. Now, she is the queen of her winter court, a chain of many ranks. Her power is elusive and poorly controlled, and while she doesn't have the power to selectively make those rise to any real degree, she does have the capability to give a blessing that lets those pull power from up the chain, accelerating their own rise.

Assembling the Winter Court: The biggest group of the court is just going to be fae, slightly modified. Maybe this means making a template, maybe this is a case by case basis. In addition to that, winter themed creatures fit just fine. A winter wolf can rise up in the winter court of Mab, existing as they do between that and the (or a) world of beasts. A custom ice golem or three couldn't hurt, with bigger ones being further up the chain.

Special Rules: The Power of Mab is a supernatural ability that grants everything in the chain powers, with more and more powers the higher one goes. The Blessing of Mab allows one to pull powers from above their rank in the chain, usually by one, sometimes by two. Work out a set of winter themed powers to build this.


*I can suspend disbelief for the obviously ludicrous biosphere of Pokemon and similar, but I'm drawing a line at the terminology. It's just such an abuse of the term.

[R.Shackleford]

*I can suspend disbelief for the obviously ludicrous biosphere of Pokemon and similar, but I'm drawing a line at the terminology. It's just such an abuse of the term.

The use of that term is not even the weirdest thing...

Humans, in the pokemon world, are themselves pokemon.

[Knaight]

The use of that term is not even the weirdest thing...

Humans, in the pokemon world, are themselves pokemon.

Again, that I can suspend disbelief for. Is it weird? Yes. Does it propagate an actively wrong understanding about what a real world means? No.