First time DM looking for advice

[McSpazzy]

Hey, so after years of waiting I've finally found other people to play DnD with, so I'm seeking some general DM advice (I was nominated because apparently I have the best sense of how the game works?) and also I have a few questions about the module we were thinking of starting with (Treasure Hunt)?

First of all, is Treasure Hunt still a good first adventure (none of us have ever played DnD before) to play if we're going to be using 3E? What if any rules conversions would we have to do, is it structured for completely different gameplay, etc.

Second, how long should we expect that adventure to take?

And lastly, like I said, what general advice do you have for a first time player/ DM?

[NevinPL]

First of all, is Treasure Hunt still a good first adventure (none of us have ever played DnD before) to play if we're going to be using 3E? What if any rules conversions would we have to do, is it structured for completely different gameplay, etc.
I don't really know what you're talking about, so...


Second, how long should we expect that adventure to take?
As long as it takes.
As long as you and the players want, have fun playing it.


And lastly, like I said, what general advice do you have for a first time player/ DM?
That question is "very popular", so if you use the forum search engine, you get a lot of threads.

My advice is to remember, that the game should be fun for everyone (Rule of Fun, IIRC it's called), that is both players, and the DM.
Remembering and reminding from the start, that PC's are not the center of the world(s), can save you from some nasty things in the future.
Not trying to make everything perfect, by the book, according to your plan, is also something to keep in mind.

[Waazraath]

And try to find out what the different players like: combat, social interactions, puzzles... and try if you can accomodate to everyone's wishes (including your own).

I liked the DM tips in the Dungeon Master Guide 2 - it's less about rules, more on different types of gaming, and social stuff in a game.

[ComaVision]

If by Treasure Hunt you mean the 1E module: You do not want to be trying to convert 1E to 3.5E your first time DMing. Grab a newer module like Sunless Citadel instead, which is worth a few sessions of gameplay.

[Bobby Baratheon]

If you run a module, make sure to adapt to your players rather than force them to adapt to the module. When I first started DMing, a common mistake I made was to try and "railroad" the players, or force them to follow a specific path and to play a certain way. It's okay to have a plot planned in advance, but adjust to the players. If they kill an important NPC they weren't supposed to kill, just replace that NPC in the plot with someone else and keep moving. It's more fun for players if they feel like they have agency within the game.

[McSpazzy]

As long as it takes.
As long as you and the players want, have fun playing it.
Fair enough, I guess I was hoping more for advice on how to break up the module and stuff like that, as well as getting an idea of how much time we would be asking everyone to commit to, especially since some of the people playing are kinda on the fence about the game in general.



That question is "very popular", so if you use the forum search engine, you get a lot of threads.
Yeah, I probably should have looked, but I didn't think to, and I was mostly looking for answers about the AD&D Treasure Hunt 4N module.

WHICH it looks like I maybe shouldn't plan to use, so back to the drawing board anyways?


My advice is to remember, that the game should be fun for everyone (Rule of Fun, IIRC it's called), that is both players, and the DM.
Remembering and reminding from the start, that PC's are not the center of the world(s), can save you from some nasty things in the future.
Not trying to make everything perfect, by the book, according to your plan, is also something to keep in mind.
This is great advice, thank you!



And try to find out what the different players like: combat, social interactions, puzzles... and try if you can accomodate to everyone's wishes (including your own).

I liked the DM tips in the Dungeon Master Guide 2 - it's less about rules, more on different types of gaming, and social stuff in a game.

Yeah, we're all trying to figure it out at this point, haha.
The Dungeon Master's Guide 2, is that the same as the core rulebook called the Dungeon Master's Guide, or is it different?


If by Treasure Hunt you mean the 1E module: You do not want to be trying to convert 1E to 3.5E your first time DMing. Grab a newer module like Sunless Citadel instead, which is worth a few sessions of gameplay.

Good to know, it's pretty highly recommended for a first game, and I saw a few people say it would be pretty easy to convert, but I have no way of actually gauging the difficulty of something like that, hence asking! I'll start looking again.

[NevinPL]

Fair enough, I guess I was hoping more for advice on how to break up the module and stuff like that, as well as getting an idea of how much time we would be asking everyone to commit to...
I don't know it, so can't help you there. Nonetheless, it depends on DM and players. Some like slow, some like fast play, some like dungeoncrawls, some urban, or wilderness environments, etc., etc.
Official 3E adventures have "stops" mentioned in them IIRC, but as a "rule of thumb", you break as needed - some groups can only take\make 2-3 hours, some do all nighters.
There's no law for, or against either of those approaches.


...especially since some of the people playing are kinda on the fence about the game in general.
Then for the first time I would suggest not an module, adventure, but some "DnD 101" - creating characters, getting to know the mechanic via the "old, but gold": "You meet in a tavern" cliché. Maybe kill some band of goblins\marauders\whatever, that happen to "just then" raid that settlement. Or track the thief who stole your Wizard's spellbook.
Just dial the rules\mechanic enforcement down.


WHICH it looks like I maybe shouldn't plan to use, so back to the drawing board anyways?
Yeah, I wouldn't "convert" an AD&D module, to 3.x rules. Especially if this was my first time with DnD.
Use the mentioned "Sunless Citadel", it's an official 3E adventure for level 1 characters, and quite nice.


The Dungeon Master's Guide 2, is that the same as the core rulebook called the Dungeon Master's Guide, or is it different?
No it's not. It's a sort of a second part, supplement to the "default" DMG.

[ksbsnowowl]

Yeah, I have no idea what Treasure Hunt is, and I've been DM'ing for nearly a decade, and playing since 2nd ed days. I would highly recommend using a module designed for the edition you are planning to play. The Sunless Citadel (http://www.dmsguild.com/product/3727/The-Sunless-Citadel-3e?term=sunless+ci&it=1) is an EXCELLENT starter adventure, for both the DM and a group of brand new players.

I started running that module (and the series that follows) 18 months ago, and we've all had a blast with it. I wrote a campaign journal, which you can read HERE (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14113.0). It might help you figure out the whole DM'ing thing, and the flow of a 3-4 hour session. At the very least, it will give you insight into The Sunless Citadel, and help you determine if that's maybe an adventure you would like to run.

[Dousedinoil]

Before you start, make sure you explain a few things.

1. Make sure they know their alignment and that they know the difference between playing what the person would do and what the character would do. New players have a hard time getting into character. Get them to Introduce their character and quickly talk about them before you start.
2. Tell them that they can do whatever they want but they have to do it together. I told one group this and they still tried to split the party. It's not fun when everyone is waiting for one player to have his/her own story.
3. Don't explain all the mechanics right off the bat, combat can be overwhelming at first and they don't need to know how grapple works within the first 5 minutes of players. Just make sure you know the rules. Let them do whatever and interpret it for them.
4. Make sure you know your audience. It's hard when you first play but some people like combat, others RP. Some people like silly campaigns while others want it to be serious. Giving your NPCs weird voices and bringing out jokes is a good way to set the tone.
5. If possible bring in an experienced player (or someone that plays the game in a fun way) for the other players to model after. People like to copy others and it doesn't hurt to have someone help answer questions out of character and start the roleplaying.
6. Don't push stuff. If your players don't want to do something or aren't comfortable don't force them to. Dont force a specific quest on your players and if they are uncomfortable talking in character, they can be the silent guy of the party until they feel more comfortable.

I mean, I'm still a relatively new DM but this is what I learned pretty quickly. I had one group that liked to sit back and have the story come to them. They didn't want a sandbox. They wanted lots of structure and guidance. Another group almost instantly ditched the main quest line and went around stealing stuff. It's surprising how quickly new players just start stealing and murdering helpless npcs.

[Scorponok]

The best piece of advice I can give you is to remember that D&D is a cooperative storytelling game. It's not your story, though you create the world. It's not only the PCs stories either. Let them do what they want, but there should be consequences for whatever actions they decide to take.

[Ortesk]

I remember when I first ran a game. I was 16, and been playing for 4 years. I was nervous. My other players were 10 years older, and been playing for a decade. I remember pouring 40 hours into making the back story. The world, the plot. I really gave it my all.

Second session I ran, a player had to miss so I just ran them through a goblin encounter, then werewolves. Well they ran from the wolves, and I inserted some powerful werebear paladin to save them. Some guy who I had no backstory on, just a random NPC. Two sessions later, the players found him for advice. He became the main mentor to our cleric.

The main foe of the entire campaign, they killed him on the first encounter. They tossed a heart stop spell at him and he rolled a 1. Really messed up the game for me.

I am telling you all of this to tell you the greatest bit of knowledge I know. Just roll with it. Make the starting city, make a loose overall plot (Give it room to grow and evolve)and just roll with it. Just have the players make whatever they want, stick to the PHB, and give them pre determined stats (I like 18, 16,16, 14, 12, 8. But scale it back if you feel that is strong) I never use modules, make the story around them. You have 4 players? Maybe they are a mercenary unit, just starting to adventure. Maybe they fight for gold, land, titles, power, or simply the thrill of battle (Ask your players, they know what sounds best to them) and go from there. Start them with some weak encounters, and don't be scared to give them extra goodies. Make your game organic. If they save the village, then the villagers might give them free ale.

Sometimes throw them at something they can not beat, sometimes throw them at nothings. Ask them what they play i skyrim, or some similiar game, and use that as the basis for what they play. And as far as a plot, nothing better than the old stuff. Villian gonna destroy the world, some halflings are trying to destroy the ring that can bring a god back, or whatever. Draw from the massive amount of movies and stories at your disposal.

But I wouldn't use a module, it lacks the custom touch that makes it memorable. Don't be afraid to kill a character if they murder a hobo (or something else silly), and just have fun. DND is a game, not a job. We only have to accept it if we want it

[NevinPL]

It's surprising how quickly new players just start stealing and murdering helpless npcs.
Either you did the number one DM mistake - make PC's the center of the multiverse, or you didn't "straighten out" that misconception.

[flare X2]

Depends on how familiar your players are with the system but if its their first time playing i'd say its ok to make their characters before hand (but don't give them a backstory, let the players fill that in game). This way you can jump straight into the story and hopefully engage your group, especially if their on the fence.
Start with a simple combat so that you and your players can learn how things work and try to end the combat with a hint of the story to come and where to go next (have one of them whisper a clue before his death or a note on why their attacking the players). Also no spell casters for the first session, they get complicated quick.
Also try to have a social conflict, an uptight guard who won't let the players in the castle without convincing (or bribing) for example. Showing that more than hacking and slashing can happen in DnD.
And most importantly take notice of what your players enjoy, did they spend time and thought on a meticulous plan in combat? add more combat. Did they try to convince the lord that he was being foolish, rather than abandoning him as a lost cause? add more social conflicts.
And finally if the session goes well ask questions between sessions about the characters and the world. Involve the players in the world building, and let them answer in as much detail as they want. I'm running a Sci-fi game and asked players what their favorite film/song/book etc was and through that process I learned that James Cameron's Terminator has lasted and is considered a classic in the same way that Beowolf or Don Quixote is.

[SkeeveTheGreat]

Either you did the number one DM mistake - make PC's the center of the multiverse, or you didn't "straighten out" that misconception.

In a game so tied to story telling, I've always disliked this sentiment. If the Pcs aren't the center of that particular multiverse (not Faerun or Eberron but the universe of the particular campaign your running) then what is the point of telling or playing through that story? I get that their must be consequences, but I feel like that the pcs are not the center of the multiverse is a bad way to describe how you should look at their actions.

Anyway, one thing I've always disliked as a player is always feeling like, especially at higher levels, my character is one of the least powerful in the setting. The other 2 cats who DM in my little circle tend to crank everything in the campaign to the point where a 10th level wizard struggles with frankly insignificant issues. For example, in one of the campaigns I'm playing in my character is a level 12 warmage. Not the most powerful of pcs sure, but a decent blaster. A couple sessions ago I started a bar fight. This wasn't something I did to mess with my DM or the story, it made sense in the role playing of that character. Turns out everyone in the bar is a font of hit points and had an armor class on scale of our parties paladin. Now unless I fundamentally misunderstand the power level of the average Npc something is wrong there. Sometimes your characters need to feel their power in relation to the average person. Not everything is a struggle.

[Pex]

It is certainly true a player's character should not be so powerful it dominates the game, but do keep in mind it is ok and supposed to happen that a player's character is powerful in some way. The difference between the two could take practice to learn but eventually becomes obvious. To dominate the game means no other player's character needs to do anything. It also means a character curb-stomping over every obstacle you place before it single handedly. A normal power level is when the players work together and overcome something, especially when you thought it was hard but they made it easy. Sometimes a player by himself will overcome an obstacle single handedly. It's ok for that one instance. It's only a problem when it's all the time. Don't be afraid of large numbers, such as a PC doing 25+ damage in one attack or rolling lots of dice.

On the opposite end, the players inherently do not know everything about a situation encounter as you do. You may place some obstacle where the solution is easy or obvious to you, but the players haven't a clue. When running a mystery, use the "three clues rule" http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule . Also, do not have a particular adventure hinge on a PC having a very specific spell or succeed at a particular skill or else the game halts because the party can't move the plot along any farther. If they succeeded on the skill it's ok that would result in an easier time of it of whatever, but failure just means they have to find another way.

You are not the enemy of the PCs. It's not your job as DM to kill off PCs. Certainly the bad guys are trying to do it, but keep in mind when the bad guys are CR equal to the party, the party is supposed to win using up 20-25% of their resources. This is not to say pull punches and never let a PC die should that be what happens, but you're not out to "get" the PCs.

[NevinPL]

I can't, wont get into a discussion, so lets label that as a "difference of opinion", with a bit of assumption, and straw man :)

[Minwaabi]

In a game so tied to story telling, I've always disliked this sentiment. If the Pcs aren't the center of that particular multiverse (not Faerun or Eberron but the universe of the particular campaign your running) then what is the point of telling or playing through that story? I get that their must be consequences, but I feel like that the pcs are not the center of the multiverse is a bad way to describe how you should look at their actions.

Anyway, one thing I've always disliked as a player is always feeling like, especially at higher levels, my character is one of the least powerful in the setting. The other 2 cats who DM in my little circle tend to crank everything in the campaign to the point where a 10th level wizard struggles with frankly insignificant issues. For example, in one of the campaigns I'm playing in my character is a level 12 warmage. Not the most powerful of pcs sure, but a decent blaster. A couple sessions ago I started a bar fight. This wasn't something I did to mess with my DM or the story, it made sense in the role playing of that character. Turns out everyone in the bar is a font of hit points and had an armor class on scale of our parties paladin. Now unless I fundamentally misunderstand the power level of the average Npc something is wrong there. Sometimes your characters need to feel their power in relation to the average person. Not everything is a struggle.

I'd argue that in that situation the DM was still making the PC the center of the universe. That door swings both ways. Why else was everyone in the tavern so powerful?

But I think the main advice/real lesson here is the same a lot of folks have said: find out what the players (and DM) wants. Some people like a story that fits into a larger world, others do want to be the center of the universe. Some want to be Hitler, or FDR, or Churchill, others are happy being the hero of one battle and being just part of a larger story, or even a resistance fighter that maybe no one ever hears of. Each of those stories could be compelling, but some people will like some stories better than others.

[Amphetryon]

The first advice I generally give to a new DM is: You will screw up, and it will be okay.

3.5 has lots of little fiddly bits to remember and track. It is all but inevitable that you will misremember a rule, or ruling, at some point. If there's a DM for whom this is not true, I have not heard the tale. When you discover there is a discrepancy between how the rules work and how you've ruled them to work, own it. 'Guys, I just realized that my ruling on X was wrong, because the book says that X should be handled like this, and we handled it like that.' At that point, decide if you wish to retcon the ruling to fit the rules as written, declare the ruling a one-off that won't change in the present but will change to the rules as written in the future, or amend the rules as written with a house-rule that matches how it happened in your campaign.

All of those options are potentially viable. You could even put it to a vote. Just own your mistakes, address them, and move on.

[SkeeveTheGreat]

I can't, wont get into a discussion, so lets label that as a "difference of opinion", with a bit of assumption, and straw man :)


I get, and agree with what your saying. It's just a difference of how it's said. They surely aren't the only thing going on in most stories, and much like real life there is a swirling and distinct set of political, mundane, extrodanary, and ridiculous stuff going on. People must live and die in every setting, or at least it has to be implied, for the stories set in any setting to have weight. However I think that saying simply that the pc's aren't the center of the universe can, send the wrong message depending on the state of mind of the reader.

Tl;Dr I definetly didn't intend to come off as though I didn't agree with you, or that your statement was invalid.




I'd argue that in that situation the DM was still making the PC the center of the universe. That door swings both ways. Why else was everyone in the tavern so powerful?

But I think the main advice/real lesson here is the same a lot of folks have said: find out what the players (and DM) wants. Some people like a story that fits into a larger world, others do want to be the center of the universe. Some want to be Hitler, or FDR, or Churchill, others are happy being the hero of one battle and being just part of a larger story, or even a resistance fighter that maybe no one ever hears of. Each of those stories could be compelling, but some people will like some stories better than others.


I think this is actually much better than my advice, mostly because my advice only covers my experience as a player.

[dantiesilva]

My advice would be, as many have already said do not get to attached to NPC villains. While they may be really cool in your eyes, and even in the players eyes, when the player has done over 300 damage at level eight to a "squishy" wizard the players start to have a lot less fun. I had a DM who's story was amazing, the NPC's each a piece of art in their own right that were living breathing people to us players. However we soon began to hate combat because we knew we were going to die, and more than likely half of us did. Before we brought down that one NPC. Or the NPC if they were really important would simply vanish. We would be out of spells for the day, almost dead, no resources left of importance and accomplished nothing. It makes your players think what they do doesn't matter and no matter how strong they get the villain's will always be stronger. Now I completely agree with the sometimes we have to retreat strategy, however try not to make it come up often. I think this is the best advice I can personally give in this regard.