Thoughts on poison in 5e

[Spacehamster]

First thoughts:
Too expensive for v limited use, I mean sure for example purple worm poison does loads of damage ONCE(3 possible times with ranged attacks) for couple thousand gold, the common poison does v little damage with v easy save for 100g which also seems too limiting to wanting to play a poison themed character. :)

Do you guys agree poison is too expensive for what it gives in return?

[Segev]

Don't you get something like 10 hits with a poisoned weapon before the poison is used up?

Still, yes, it seems too weak for being an expendable.

[Spacehamster]

Could be cool for an alpha strike build tho I guess, like 2 paladin / rest arcane trickster, hit enemy with blade poisoned with purple worm poison + dueling from pally + booming blade + whatever max level spell slot + sneak attack, would be pretty grisly results. :)

[Spacehamster]

Don't you get something like 10 hits with a poisoned weapon before the poison is used up?

Still, yes, it seems too weak for being an expendable.

They errataed it that you have one minute to land a hit with a melee weapon but once you hit the poison is used. :(

[supergoji18]

I once compiled a list of everything in the game that either was resistant or immune to a certain type of damage.

Poison had so many creatures immune to it that it filled the entire page.

My opinion on it as anything more than something for humanoids to play with is very low. I'd dare to say it is the post useless tool in D&D outside of a campaign of intrigue and politics. Even then, its very easily countered by a detect poison spell or a purify food and drink spell.

[LordFluffy]

They errataed it that you have one minute to land a hit with a melee weapon but once you hit the poison is used. :(

Which really makes no sense. Ammunition = 3 effective does while melee = 1. I would houserule it to 3 hits or 3 pieces of ammunition or some combination of the two.

[Spacehamster]

Which really makes no sense. Ammunition = 3 effective does while melee = 1. I would houserule it to 3 hits or 3 pieces of ammunition or some combination of the two.

Think it's one hit with melee weapon cause you are almost guaranteed to get the hit off on one minute on combat while there is no guarantee that all 3 arrows/bolts hit.

[Dr. Cliché]

Well, one thing worth mentioning is that you're rarely going to be saving up for magic items in 5th, so you might not have much else to spend money on. :smallwink:

On a more serious note, I think you're largely correct. I think a big problem is that you have to either coat your weapon in advance or else waste an action to do it in the first round of combat (in which case, you could probably do the same or better damage by just attacking instead). And, whilst you might concievably save it for bosses, you'd have to be really sure that there's about to be a boss fight. Imagine if you thought you'd reached the BBEG's inner sanctum and coated your weapon with Purple Worm Poison, only to be faced with an elite mook instead. Do you stay out of the fight, or kiss goodbye to the 2000gp worth of poison you were saving for the boss?

That said, I don't think poison is an entirely worthless mechanic:

- Whilst poisons are expensive to buy, players who kill a monster might want to use the body for something. So, it's nice if they can make some poison out of its liver or such. In this case, the poison is very much a bonus.

- Intimidation. Many poisons don't induce pleasant deaths, and morally ambiguous characters may use them to threaten mooks with painful, prolonged deaths if they fail to cooperate.

- It's a useful tool for the DM, who (within reason) doesn't have to worry about expenses, when the mook coated his weapon etc.

- Ingested, Inhaled and Contact poisons can also be used by the DM or players for more surreptitious killings. e.g. a rogue might try to kill an irksome prince by slipping poison into his drink during a party. Or, a faceless enemy may be causing 1 noble to drop dead each day at the stroke of midnight. Perhaps he's doing this to convince people he has supernatural powers, and says that the deaths will continue until he gets what he wants.

[Segev]

Yeah, poisons are far, far too little in terms of effect for their cost. Just not worth it. Which is sad, because that also means the Assassin has a worthless class feature. I won't say it's useless - you can technically use it - but it has no worth because of how rarely it will come up and how crippling it is to your finances for so little effect if you try to MAKE it come up.

[Spacehamster]

Could make a feat that makes poison more useful: Enter "master poisoner" your expertise in the questionable art of poisoning has yielded you the following benefits:

- +1 AGI(careful coordination as to not poison yourself)
- when harvesting poison successfully you gain an extra dose out of it.
- your knowledge of poisons lets you use cheaper toxins to dilute the crafted poison you are making without making it weaker thus netting you two doses per craft instead of one.

[Cloverdung]

Do not forget the Condition - Poisoned: All attacks and ability checks are at disadvantage.

So, even if you only do minimal poison damage during a melee attack, if the creature fails their poison save they are under the condition poisoned.

[Joe the Rat]

Only if the poison in question gives the poisoned condition - which not all do.
I'm okay with lesser damage (or no damage) coupled with status effects, and I want more. Give me paralysis poisons, and charm poisons, and blindness or deafness poisons, or more of those sleep damage drow poisons.

[Vogonjeltz]

First thoughts:
Too expensive for v limited use, I mean sure for example purple worm poison does loads of damage ONCE(3 possible times with ranged attacks) for couple thousand gold, the common poison does v little damage with v easy save for 100g which also seems too limiting to wanting to play a poison themed character. :)

Do you guys agree poison is too expensive for what it gives in return?

Don't forget that it's generally illegal to purchase poisons.

I'd expect that only characters with the right skills to simply harvest it (read: free after the kill) would bother, and then only when the opportunity presents itself.

As for manufacturing it...well, maybe? It is one of the only ways to add extra damage especially at lower levels.
I suppose it could be cool to make an Assassin character.

[Gastronomie]

Perhaps it'll be a fun idea to let the party rogue (especially an assassin) craft poison from bodies of slain monsters.

And if it's not usable in combat, use the fact they're ridiculously overpriced to your advantage and sell them in the black market.

[Slipperychicken]

They errataed it that you have one minute to land a hit with a melee weapon but once you hit the poison is used. :(

DMG Errata didn't change that, Sage Advice did. They said the rules say it lasts the full minute, but their advice was to make it just one hit.


Still, the ruling makes me wonder how the MM assassins are making their poison last so long, or how they can afford all of that wyvern venom for their attacks.

[Rub]

Only if the poison in question gives the poisoned condition - which not all do.
I'm okay with lesser damage (or no damage) coupled with status effects, and I want more. Give me paralysis poisons, and charm poisons, and blindness or deafness poisons, or more of those sleep damage drow poisons.

Is there a list of different poisons and their effects? Where can I find this?

[hymer]

Is there a list of different poisons and their effects? Where can I find this?

DMG p. 257.

@ the discussion in general: I think one of the real problems with poisons is that they are rather procedure heavy. First you roll to see if you hit, and you roll your regular damage. Then there's a save, maybe a scramble for stats to see if this monster is immune or resistant. And then you roll poison damage. And then a futile looking in rulebooks on whether poison damage multiplies on a critical hit.
Clearer rules and getting rid of the save would make it far more streamlined.

[RickAllison]

DMG Errata didn't change that, Sage Advice did. They said the rules say it lasts the full minute, but their advice was to make it just one hit.


Still, the ruling makes me wonder how the MM assassins are making their poison last so long, or how they can afford all of that wyvern venom for their attacks.

It was DMG Errata:


Injury poison can be applied to weapons, ammunition,
trap components, and other objects that deal piercing or
slashing damage and remains potent until delivered through a
wound or washed off

Emphasis mine. If the archer firing his three arrows is able to retrieve any poisoned ones that missed, he can still fire those for a chance at inflicting the poison.

[mgshamster]

What if you decreased the cost by a factor for the purposes of crafting?

Call the prices in the DMG the "black market" costs for a society in which they're illegal. Divide by 10 or even a 100 for societies where they're legal; make crafting cheaper for those players who want to use it.

I did this in PF and it worked fairly ok.