My take on the Monk Kensai

[Gfrobbin84]

I know I know there is a million of these but I feel most of the others out there are OP and/or overly complicated. So having wanted a weapon based monk for a while I decided to come up with one such option for my players in my upcoming campaign. Please let me know what you think and any modifications I should make.

Way of the Kensai

You have devoted your martial training to the mastery of one weapon above all others. This has allowed you to accomplish feats that most others only dream off with your chosen weapon but your skill in others has suffered.

Disciples Form:
At 3rd level you must pick one simple or martial melee weapon you gain proficiency in this chosen weapon(if you didn't already) but you now have a -1 to attack rolls with all other weapons. You now treat this as a monk weapon for all purposes and use either the weapons damage or your monk unarmed damage for all damage rolls with this weapon whichever is greater. Also pick one fighting style from below.

Defense: While you are wielding your chosen weapon, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Great Weapon Fighting: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new
roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.

Dual Weapon Fighting: Wielding two versions of your chosen weapon, one in each hand, you can make attacks with your chosen weapon in place of the bonus unarmed attacks granted by your Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows class feature. Also you can use your chosen weapon to deflect missiles using your deflect missiles class feature but you can't catch or throw the missile back if you do.

Ki Weapon:

At 6th level you can meditate over your weapon during a short or long rest. Afterward as long as you have at least 1 ki point you can score a critical with your chosen weapon on a 19 or 20. Also at the end of a short or long rest where you meditated over your weapon you can invest your ki into your weapon increasing its effectiveness. At 6th level you can invest 1 ki point to give your weapon a +1 magical bonus until your next short rest provided it doesn't already have a magic bonus. At 11th level you can invest 3 ki points to give it a +2 bonus and at 16th you can invest 5 ki points to give it a +3 bonus.

Perfect Defense:

At 11th level while wielding your chosen weapon and struck by a melee attack you can use your reaction to parry the attack and reduces it's damage the same as if it was a missile attack and you used your deflect missiles feature.

Perfect Form:

At 17th level while wielding your chosen weapon and taking the attack action you can now make 3 attacks instead of 2.

[Mongobear]

I like it, but a few things:

1a) You should allow it to work for Ranged Weapons as well. Maybe specific Thrown weapons such as a Kunai/Shuriken (Dagger) as well as some of the Japanese short/longbows.

1b) If the above is done, add in the Archery Fighting style for the bows and/or allow the Dual Weapon Style to allow offhand attacks with Thrown weapons.

2) Dual Weapon Style should just be part of the archetype/tradition. The actual Fighting Style should be Two-Weapon Fighting for Monk Kensais who want to get their dual wield on.

3) Ki Weapon makes the resource VERY limited, I think it should just change the Ki-Empowered Strikes feature from basic Monk to allow your weapon of choice to count as Magic, instead of penalizing those who choose Two-Weapon Styles, or those who want to use Ki for other abilities.

4) With Flurry of Blows/Martial Arts, a high level Monk will always be able to Attack 4 times, 5 if they are Two-Weapon Fighting, that is just as much as a Fighter, albeit at the cost of Ki. I think this feature should do something like "Advantage on Damage rolls with the chosen weapon." Or "Spend 3-5 Ki points to cause the attack to deal Maximum damage."

[Gfrobbin84]

I like it, but a few things:

1a) You should allow it to work for Ranged Weapons as well. Maybe specific Thrown weapons such as a Kunai/Shuriken (Dagger) as well as some of the Japanese short/longbows.

1b) If the above is done, add in the Archery Fighting style for the bows and/or allow the Dual Weapon Style to allow offhand attacks with Thrown weapons.

2) Dual Weapon Style should just be part of the archetype/tradition. The actual Fighting Style should be Two-Weapon Fighting for Monk Kensais who want to get their dual wield on.

3) Ki Weapon makes the resource VERY limited, I think it should just change the Ki-Empowered Strikes feature from basic Monk to allow your weapon of choice to count as Magic, instead of penalizing those who choose Two-Weapon Styles, or those who want to use Ki for other abilities.

4) With Flurry of Blows/Martial Arts, a high level Monk will always be able to Attack 4 times, 5 if they are Two-Weapon Fighting, that is just as much as a Fighter, albeit at the cost of Ki. I think this feature should do something like "Advantage on Damage rolls with the chosen weapon." Or "Spend 3-5 Ki points to cause the attack to deal Maximum damage."

1. I might add archery for bow users but this actually going to be used in a modern game so most people will probably use guns for ranged. Also I just feel ranged builds don't work for monks because you can't use your unarmed bonus attacks at range.

2. I made them their own style because two-weapon fighting doesn't work for monks since their bonus attacks from martial arts and flurry of blows use their bonus action as well. Also monks already get to add their full Dex to all their attacks.

3. Ki Weapon is mostly to give them improved crit as long as they hold onto at least 1 ki which isn't to costly. The empowerment is mainly if they are lacking an actual magical weapon. I didn't think about the cost doubling for dual wielders so I'll add a line about it effecting both weapons in those cases.

4. This is why only the dual wielders get to make unarmed bonus attacks with their weapons. So monks with 2 handed weapons won't be attacking as much with them as fighters.

[Mongobear]

1. I might add archery for bow users but this actually going to be used in a modern game so most people will probably use guns for ranged. Also I just feel ranged builds don't work for monks because you can't use your unarmed bonus attacks at range.


Gun-Fu was a common trope in the late 80s and early 90s for a LOT of Action movies. You could just houserule that Guns=Bows for the modern setting

Also, I think I might have made a big assumption on this archetype, which isn't actually a part of it. Do Monks of this Archetype not get to Flurry with their Weapon of Choice? I thought that was the whole benefit of this archetype, but I may have just assumed badly.

If this isn't how the archetype works, that is another suggestion I could make to make it stand out and be different.



2. I made them their own style because two-weapon fighting doesn't work for monks since their bonus attacks from martial arts and flurry of blows use their bonus action as well. Also monks already get to add their full Dex to all their attacks.


This is probably my mistake from the assumption I made on how this Archetype interacted with Flurry of Blows.



3. Ki Weapon is mostly to give them improved crit as long as they hold onto at least 1 ki which isn't to costly. The empowerment is mainly if they are lacking an actual magical weapon. I didn't think about the cost doubling for dual wielders so I'll add a line about it effecting both weapons in those cases.


I think them gaining Imp. Critical and have Ki-Empowered Strikes carry over to their chosen weapon is fine for a 6th level ability.

Unless the game is being run with ZERO magic items, the +1 to +3 boost is either going to come way too late to matter, as the group most likely already found suitable magic items and the Monk already has a +1 Weapon or better



4. This is why only the dual wielders get to make unarmed bonus attacks with their weapons. So monks with 2 handed weapons won't be attacking as much with them as fighters.


Now I am really confused, and I know I have read something wrong.

I thought that with this Monastic Tradition that you can use the Bonus Action Flurry of Blows the attack with your chosen weapon? So, going by that interpretation, a Monk of 17th level or higher can make 2 Attacks with the Attack action, then use a Bonus Action and spend Ki to Flurry, attacking twice more with the weapon again.

Is this not how the ability works?

[Gfrobbin84]

The base 3rd level ability basically gives you proficiency in 1 melee weapon of your choice and allows you to count it as a monk weapon for all purposes. So that means battle axes, great swords, great axes could all potentially become monk weapons allowing them to be used with Dex and able to trigger your unarmed bonus attacks. However just like any other monk those attacks have to be unarmed attacks, so you don't have monks making 4 or 5 great sword attacks. If they take the dual wield style they can make all of those attacks with their weapons but since they are 1 handed weapons their damage will be capped at the same 1d10 that a purely unarmed monk would get on all of their attacks.

[Mongobear]

The base 3rd level ability basically gives you proficiency in 1 melee weapon of your choice and allows you to count it as a monk weapon for all purposes. So that means battle axes, great swords, great axes could all potentially become monk weapons allowing them to be used with Dex and able to trigger your unarmed bonus attacks. However just like any other monk those attacks have to be unarmed attacks, so you don't have monks making 4 or 5 great sword attacks. If they take the dual wield style they can make all of those attacks with their weapons but since they are 1 handed weapons their damage will be capped at the same 1d10 that a purely unarmed monk would get on all of their attacks.

So, you'd get 3 Attacks as an Action, then you could BA Flurry for 2 more, all dealing 1d10+Dex? Id have to do math, but I think this out DPRs an equal level Fighter, because of their reliance on Crit/Kill for the 5th Attack from GWM, especially if their BA Attack comes from PAM.

I think my idea of Leaving them with 2 Attacks/Action, and letting them Bonus Action Flurry with a Weapon is the better option for Balances sake. Yes they can get 4 Greatsword attacks this way, but it takes their Action AND Bonus action(plus Ki points).

This way, you could change the 17th level ability to something that more accurately shows their "Martial Perfection" than a 3rd attack.

[Gfrobbin84]

Well with the way I wrote it a dual wielding monk would get 5 attacks with 1 handed weapons when they spend a bonus action and a ki point to do so. A 2 weapon fighter gets 5 attacks with 1 handed weapons for just the cost of a bonus action.

[Foxhound438]

>>> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything but you should try to continue this in the proper sub-forum.

I like the look of it, flat giving 3 attacks on your action might be too strong though. Shadow functionally gives you a third attack at the same level, but costs your reaction and requires a friend. Maybe have some required condition, like Hoard Breaker does; or perhaps give a line multiattack instead? "As an action, you can rush in a 20 foot line, not provoking opportunity attacks, and moving through other creatures' spaces. If this move ends inside another creature's space, you move to the nearest unoccupied space, not provoking opportunity attacks. You make an attack against each creature you pass through this way using your kenasi weapon. You can then use your martial arts or flurry of blows as a bonus action."

Or something. Generally I'd avoid making "strictly better" features, so just 3x cut would be out the window for me.

You might also want to specify the weapon in Ki weapon must be non-magical (as with magic weapon). You really don't want players to be able to stack +3 onto flametongues (not an issue if you don't plan to give those out, but it's good to build in restrictions)

[Gfrobbin84]

>>>

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything but you should try to continue this in the proper sub-forum.

I like the look of it, flat giving 3 attacks on your action might be too strong though. Shadow functionally gives you a third attack at the same level, but costs your reaction and requires a friend. Maybe have some required condition, like Hoard Breaker does; or perhaps give a line multiattack instead? "As an action, you can rush in a 20 foot line, not provoking opportunity attacks, and moving through other creatures' spaces. If this move ends inside another creature's space, you move to the nearest unoccupied space, not provoking opportunity attacks. You make an attack against each creature you pass through this way using your kenasi weapon. You can then use your martial arts or flurry of blows as a bonus action."

Or something. Generally I'd avoid making "strictly better" features, so just 3x cut would be out the window for me.

You might also want to specify the weapon in Ki weapon must be non-magical (as with magic weapon). You really don't want players to be able to stack +3 onto flametongues (not an issue if you don't plan to give those out, but it's good to build in restrictions)

I think you're right about Perfect Form. I'll try maybe a counter attack as a reaction to being attacked you can use your reaction to make an attack against the attacker. Going to make some edits and post in the right forum tomorrow.

[Mongobear]

I think you're right about Perfect Form. I'll try maybe a counter attack as a reaction to being attacked you can use your reaction to make an attack against the attacker. Going to make some edits and post in the right forum tomorrow.

I don't think a "Counter Attack" is the way to go, honestly, with how already defensive the basic Monk chassis is, it'll almost be redundant. If you want something like this, allow their Perfect Defense ability to redirect the attack at another creature within reach if you totally negate the damage, or make it a carbon copy of the Ranger? ability which does this already. I think it was Misdirection, I could be wrong.

Going off of older edition Kensai's, they had an ability called "Ki Damage" which made it so that their weapon attack did maximum damage, you didn't even have to roll dice. Alternatively, you could tack on more synergy with their Improve Critical feature, and allow them to spend Ki Points to perform some crit shenanigans, maybe Spend Ki to increase damage multiplier, or allow yourself to spend Ki and turn all hits for 1 round into crits, this isn't synergistic, but it does give the Kensai some good Nova options, which is what Monk really lacks.

[Gfrobbin84]

You know that is a good idea since I already have a reaction based ability maybe like 5 ki points so all your attacks for one round are crits or do max dmg.

[BladeWing81]

Way of the Kensai

You have devoted your martial training to the mastery of one weapon above all others. This has allowed you to accomplish feats that most others only dream off with your chosen weapon but your skill in others has suffered.

Disciples Form:
At 3rd level you must pick one simple or martial melee weapon you gain proficiency in this chosen weapon(if you didn't already) but you now have a -1 to attack rolls with all other weapons. You now treat this as a monk weapon for all purposes and use either the weapons damage or your monk unarmed damage for all damage rolls with this weapon whichever is greater. Also pick one fighting style from below.

Dual Weapon Fighting: Wielding two versions of your chosen weapon, one in each hand, you can make attacks with your chosen weapon in place of the bonus unarmed attacks granted by your Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows class feature. Also you can use your chosen weapon to deflect missiles using your deflect missiles class feature but you can't catch or throw the missile back if you do.

Ki Weapon:

At 6th level you can meditate over your weapon during a short or long rest. Afterward as long as you have at least 1 ki point you can score a critical with your chosen weapon on a 19 or 20. Also at the end of a short or long rest where you meditated over your weapon you can invest your ki into your weapon increasing its effectiveness. At 6th level you can invest 1 ki point to give your weapon a +1 magical bonus until your next short rest provided it doesn't already have a magic bonus. At 11th level you can invest 3 ki points to give it a +2 bonus and at 16th you can invest 5 ki points to give it a +3 bonus.


I like this version of the kensai a lot but I have questions on the interactions of dual wielding style and the ki weapon feature. let's say I want longsword as my Kensai weapon and take dual weapon fighting at level 6 would my offhand longsword also get the improved critical or is that only for my mainhand longsword? same goes for the latter ability to get +1,+2 or +3 does the offhand longsword get that bonus too?

[Gfrobbin84]

I like this version of the kensai a lot but I have questions on the interactions of dual wielding style and the ki weapon feature. let's say I want longsword as my Kensai weapon and take dual weapon fighting at level 6 would my offhand longsword also get the improved critical or is that only for my mainhand longsword? same goes for the latter ability to get +1,+2 or +3 does the offhand longsword get that bonus too?

Yes it would effect both for practitioners of the dual wield style. I'm going to do an edited write up later today when I have more time and post it in the home brew section.

[Gfrobbin84]

I just posted an updated version in the home brew forum so please place any further comments there.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?484937-My-take-on-the-monk-Kensei&p=20668473#post20668473