Show of hands: Who here was asking for 4 sequels to James Cameron's "Avatar"?

[-Sentinel-]

Because it's happening. (http://collider.com/avatar-2-sequels-james-cameron-2018) Woo-hoo.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Avatar is bad or anything, as a stand-alone movie... but I just can't find it in me to get excited about sequels. James Cameron is a talented director with a lot of financial clout and creative freedom, and it saddens me to see him spend so much of the rest of his career on a rather bland franchise. Not to mention that there are only so many big blockbusters that the market can support annually.

Still, better this than Transformers sequels, I guess.

[Giggling Ghast]

Oh. Well. (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=roRQ2mNwMMQ)

What, uh ... what about the Avatar universe remains for exploration? "Earth comes back to get their asses kicked some more?"

[AdmiralCheez]

Yeah, I thought Avatar told a pretty complete story. Like, unless Earth attacks in retaliation or something, I just don't see how a sequel could fill all that time with pretty pictures and alien culture. There's just nowhere for the plot to go.

[Kitten Champion]

Four of them? Was there really that much story there?

I didn't even hate Avatar, it was a popcorn flick at its popcorniest and visually ambitious without feeling limited by Star Wars prequel-esque blue-screen phoniness, but it didn't even have half the appeal of Terminator and that franchise has systematically destroyed itself with inferior sequels which aggressively use up the good will of the original by abusing its own nostalgia over the course of decades. In no way am I sufficiently invested in seeing Cameron see just how much blood he can derive from a relatively unimpressive stone for a whole goddamned quintet.

[DigoDragon]

"Earth comes back to get their asses kicked some more?"

Couldn't Earth just nuke the blue cats from orbit? A few high-altitude bombers would probably catch the tribe by surprise in the same way Google Earth photographs your home's roof. :3

Granted it would be a pretty short movie, but on the plus side, it would be a pretty short movie.

[McNum]

Four more? I mean other than "The humans sent their diplomatic corps last movie. It ended in a bloodbath. Now they're sending their extermination corps to ensure another one, but on their terms!" what else is there? I mean the social dynamics of the Na'vi is... I suppose you could make a good movie about it, but really, without humans like... I forgot his name, so I'll call him Master Sergeant Murderface Killmore, since that's about as subtle a name as he deserves, would there even be a conflict?

It seems to me that if there was to be an Avatar 2, it should have been six years ago. While 3D was still reasonably fresh and hot. I just don't see any sequels be as big a smash hit as the first one was. That was a perfect storm of new technology and a really pretty film. But there has been a lot of pretty films since then, why would Avatar 2 be any different?

[-Sentinel-]

Couldn't Earth just nuke the blue cats from orbit?
Bonus points for the "Nuke the whole site from orbit" quote coming from another James Cameron movie.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind Cameron coming back to the Alien franchise, if he really wants to stick to established franchises.



It seems to me that if there was to be an Avatar 2, it should have been six years ago. While 3D was still reasonably fresh and hot. I just don't see any sequels be as big a smash hit as the first one was. That was a perfect storm of new technology and a really pretty film. But there has been a lot of pretty films since then, why would Avatar 2 be any different?
Yeah, it's just been too long. 3-D is no longer this fancy new thing, and there hasn't been anything to sustain interest in the Avatar franchise.

Plus, the Avatar film never gave me this feeling of a whole wide world that would be worth exploring in sequels.

[cobaltstarfire]

No one asked, they had planned to do more than the first one quite a long time ago, I'm not sure if that decision was after the movie had come out, but it wasn't long after it was released that word was bouncing around that there were plans for a couple more movies after Avatar.

[Seppl]

Four of them? Was there really that much story there?

It does not necessarily have to be a sequel to the old story. The main appeal is probably that Pandora is a nice setting that the audience is already familiar with and invested in. You could tell any story you want. Na'Vi murder mystery! Future Na'Vi Indiana Jones hunting for a long lost artifact from the legendary time the humans came from the sky! Young adult Na'Vi refusing their society and the neural bond!

Of course, knowing Hollywood, none of this will happen and we will get the same old story rehashed four times until the franchise is dead or gets rebooted.

[Giggling Ghast]

They had planned to do more than the first one quite a long time ago, I'm not sure if that decision was after the movie had come out, but it wasn't long after it was released that word was bouncing around that there were plans for a couple more movies after Avatar.

But it's been seven years since Avatar! Why has Cameron been sitting on his hands all this time? Surely producing the odd documentary can't take up seven years. Has he been rolling around on a pile of money while laughing maniacally? Storyboarding Navi sex scenes? Discussing plans for a Terminator/Titanic crossover?

[Donnadogsoth]

Speaking as someone who thinks the only really cool thing about Avatar was the spaceship in the beginning, and maybe those giant jungle leaves, I hope it all proves to be extremely unlucrative. Cameron has blown his creative wad.

[Kitten Champion]

It does not necessarily have to be a sequel to the old story. The main appeal is probably that Pandora is a nice setting that the audience is already familiar with and invested in. You could tell any story you want. Na'Vi murder mystery! Future Na'Vi Indiana Jones hunting for a long lost artifact from the legendary time the humans came from the sky! Young adult Na'Vi refusing their society and the neural bond!

Of course, knowing Hollywood, none of this will happen and we will get the same old story rehashed four times until the franchise is dead or gets rebooted.

It's an allegorical setting though, that's the problem.

Now, I don't really dislike allegorical works, many SF stories I've enjoyed use their settings to make interesting statements, criticisms, and explore thought-provoking ideas. However, when you go out of your way to make things fit your point, you don't provide the sort of dimensions necessary for their to be this broader world with living people and other stories to tell, just a world populated by... abstractions of your central premise.

There's just only so much you can do with that. I can't, for instance, see Cameron doing anything that would really cast the Na'vi in a negative light.

[Grinner]

It's a allegorical setting though, that's the problem.

Now, I don't really dislike allegorical works, many SF stories I've enjoyed use their settings to make interesting statements, criticisms, and explore thought-provoking ideas. However, when you go out of your way to make things fit your point, you don't provide the sort of dimensions necessary for their to be this broader world with living people and other stories to tell, just a world populated by... abstractions of your central premise.

There's just only so much you can do with that. I can't, for instance, see Cameron doing anything that would really cast the Na'vi in a negative light.

Four sequels is a bit much, I think, but there's definitely territory yet to be explored in the setting. For instance, it might be interesting to see how intertribal politics work.

[Joran]

Speaking as someone who thinks the only really cool thing about Avatar was the spaceship in the beginning, and maybe those giant jungle leaves, I hope it all proves to be extremely unlucrative. Cameron has blown his creative wad.

One of the weird things about Avatar is that it made a BOATLOAD of money, but it's had zero impact whatsoever on the popular culture. Looking at Star Wars, Gone with the Wind, and even Titanic, they had gigantic influences on popular culture and I can still quote dialogue from the movies today.

Avatar just seems like a large lacuna; an unmemorable film except for the sparkling visuals.

[Waddacku]

We could have been getting Battle Angel, but then Avatar happened.

[warty goblin]

I'll take it over any of the other things currently being franchised to death. With a very few - and non-recent - exceptions I don't like superhero movies, and I'm deeply unconvinced by the prospect of yearly Disney Star Wars, particularly since TFA included precisely zero really interesting or weird ecosystems*.

There's any number of ecotypes left to explore on Pandora on the other hand, and unlike even the creative Star Wars, there's a discernible evolutionary history going on there. That makes lots of room for really creative beasties grounded in the same overall anatomical structure and 'feel.' There's also the possibility that humans just plain don't show up anymore, so it's all Na'vi all the time. This strikes me as a marvelous possibility, possibly because of deepseated misanthropy on my part, possibly because nobody's really done something like that before. So color me cautiously optimistic on this front.


*The only non-hallway settings being another goddamn desert planet, my backyard, and my backyard with snow, respectively.

[cobaltstarfire]

But it's been seven years since Avatar! Why has Cameron been sitting on his hands all this time? Surely producing the odd documentary can't take up seven years. Has he been rolling around on a pile of money while laughing maniacally? Storyboarding Navi sex scenes? Discussing plans for a Terminator/Titanic crossover?

Heck if I know, there was never any word that he had trashed his planned avatar sequels so there was no reason for me to assume he wouldn't, or be surprised to hear word that it's still a thing.


There is one thing about Avatar I wish had caught on with movie making, and that's doing 3D good. Movies still mostly just slap the 3D on like it's an afterthought. Avatar is the only movie I've watched in 3D that actually used the medium well.

[Jeivar]

FOUR? FOUR more? How much white guilt is James Cameron dealing with??

[The Fury]

Avatar was a movie with a lot of apologists. Y'know, the sort of people that would say, "Avatar isn't about the story, it's about the experience!" I guess I could see those folks clambering for future sequels.

Fine, I'll admit that it is a fairly well-realized alien world. But so what? Maybe this just shows what a walnut-brained movie-goer I am, but I thought the story was contrived and transparently manipulative. I mean, the frequency that Avatar is compared to Dances With Wolves seems pretty apt to me-- and I hated Dances With Wolves for essentially the same reasons.

[Pronounceable]

Not even Uwe Boll movies deserve four sequels. Cameron should stop blowing steam and let the sleeping cats lie (in dignity).

[Donnadogsoth]

FOUR? FOUR more? How much white guilt is James Cameron dealing with??

He buys it wholesale from China. It comes in 55 gal drums and tastes like marshmallows.

[Ramza00]

I blame star wars the force awakens and to a lesser extent guardians of the galaxy. It reminded big hollywood that space opera / sci fi can be big as long as there is a franchise that people care about. So let's sign the contracts right now and get in writing the actor salaries now vs them asking for more money later since Hollywood already thinks there will be 5 movies.

Remember avatar 2 was delayed /moved to the star wars off years and with the force awaken grossing over 2 billion just for the movie, and avatar doing 2.7 billion it is easy to greenlight the funds right now and have in the contract a clause that if Avatar 2 or 3 fails (they had funding prior to now) that the movie funders retain a right to back out.

[Legato Endless]

It does not necessarily have to be a sequel to the old story. The main appeal is probably that Pandora is a nice setting that the audience is already familiar with and invested in. You could tell any story you want. Na'Vi murder mystery! Future Na'Vi Indiana Jones hunting for a long lost artifact from the legendary time the humans came from the sky! Young adult Na'Vi refusing their society and the neural bond!

It's a James Cameron film. It'll either be an action film or a disaster movie with a romance subplot.


I'll take it over any of the other things currently being franchised to death. With a very few - and non-recent - exceptions I don't like superhero movies, and I'm deeply unconvinced by the prospect of yearly Disney Star Wars, particularly since TFA included precisely zero really interesting or weird ecosystems*.

There's any number of ecotypes left to explore on Pandora on the other hand, and unlike even the creative Star Wars, there's a discernible evolutionary history going on there. That makes lots of room for really creative beasties grounded in the same overall anatomical structure and 'feel.' There's also the possibility that humans just plain don't show up anymore, so it's all Na'vi all the time.

It's a James Cameron film. Humanity will be in the next film, and whatever is wrong will be our fault.


For instance, it might be interesting to see how intertribal politics work.

Does that sound like a James Cameron film to you?


There's just only so much you can do with that. I can't, for instance, see Cameron doing anything that would really cast the Na'vi in a negative light.

KC gets it.

[warty goblin]

It's a James Cameron film. Humanity will be in the next film, and whatever is wrong will be our fault.

Excellent. So few movies contain those delicious yet subtle misanthropic notes. Even fewer of them also contain explosions.

[JoshL]

If the second goes well, that will determine my interest for the next two. I liked the first. I wanted more; or more specifically, I thought the first had a fairly generic story to get people used to the new technology and the general world setting. I wanted to see where it would go, and if it's going to go somewhere, then yeah, more is welcome.

I wouldn't say that Avatar had no impact. When it came out, 3d was a trend that came and went every few years, but never more than a novelty. Not saying that it's always used well, but I would say that we wouldn't have 3d tvs right now if Avatar wasn't the hit that it was.


But it's been seven years since Avatar! Why has Cameron been sitting on his hands all this time? Surely producing the odd documentary can't take up seven years. Has he been rolling around on a pile of money while laughing maniacally? Storyboarding Navi sex scenes? Discussing plans for a Terminator/Titanic crossover?

He was busy making the world's deepest solo dive to the bottom of the Mariana Trench (http://www.deepseachallenge.com/). Developing new technology to go there. And the cameras to film down there. Sort of why Avatar happened because of the Titanic money. Dude is pretty awesome, actually.

[Legato Endless]

I wouldn't say that Avatar had no impact. When it came out, 3d was a trend that came and went every few years, but never more than a novelty. Not saying that it's always used well, but I would say that we wouldn't have 3d tvs right now if Avatar wasn't the hit that it was.

Has this changed? When I type in 3d Tv onto Google, I get two links stating 3d television is dead. 3d Television sales only gives me more links stating it's dead or manufacturers are cutting back on production. Most of what tech talk has bubbled it's way past me for home entertainment recently has concerned the merits of 4k, oculus rift excitement, or things like Smart TVs. Is there things happening in the industry of late?

[tomandtish]

But it's been seven years since Avatar! Why has Cameron been sitting on his hands all this time? Surely producing the odd documentary can't take up seven years. Has he been rolling around on a pile of money while laughing maniacally? Storyboarding Navi sex scenes? Discussing plans for a Terminator/Titanic crossover?

Now THAT I would watch!

"He was sent to the past to save Jack Dawson and to kill the woman who did, in fact, let Jack go!"


Avatar was a movie with a lot of apologists. Y'know, the sort of people that would say, "Avatar isn't about the story, it's about the experience!" I guess I could see those folks clambering for future sequels.

Fine, I'll admit that it is a fairly well-realized alien world. But so what? Maybe this just shows what a walnut-brained movie-goer I am, but I thought the story was contrived and transparently manipulative. I mean, the frequency that Avatar is compared to Dances With Wolves seems pretty apt to me-- and I hated Dances With Wolves for essentially the same reasons.

It's extremely apt. It's Dances with Wolves with space elves. Part of why it never really caught on outside the movie itself is because there wasn't one shred of originality in the plot. The movie did well because at the time the special effects were incredible!

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe they'll base the screenplay off Avatars II: When Qwaritch Takes Revenge (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/AvatarsIIWhenQwaritchTakesRevenge).

[Hida Reju]

Now THAT I would watch!

"He was sent to the past to save Jack Dawson and to kill the woman who did, in fact, let Jack go!"



It's extremely apt. It's Dances with Wolves with space elves. Part of why it never really caught on outside the movie itself is because there wasn't one shred of originality in the plot. The movie did well because at the time the special effects were incredible!

No no no, its reverse slash fanfiction of the Smurfs where Smurffete is a dude instead of a girl.

[Alent]

Clearly, the second movie should take place on a floating mining platform, mining unobtanium from the Pandoran equivalent of the Mariana Trench, after selling the franchise to Disney so the cast can break out "Under the Sea" for the fancy 3D bio-luminescent lightshow.

(Should I have bluetexted that? I wasn't entirely being sarcastic, seeing as how bad the original movie was...)

[Giggling Ghast]

Now THAT I would watch!

"He was sent to the past to save Jack Dawson and to kill the woman who did, in fact, let Jack go!"

"Draw me like one of your T-888 girls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_%28Terminator%29), John."

[The Fury]

"Draw me like one of your T-888 girls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_%28Terminator%29), John."

Then she drops the robe revealing her bare endoskeleton, yeah?

[Zalabim]

Bonus points for the "Nuke the whole site from orbit" quote coming from another James Cameron movie.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind Cameron coming back to the Alien franchise, if he really wants to stick to established franchises.

I think I know what direction to take for the Avatar sequels now.

[Aotrs Commander]

Anyone reckon they'll actaully try and make the hexapods move like a hexapod creature should and not like a quadruped with and extra pair of legs? (I'm told.) 'Cos that's not, like, how biology works, SFX team.

[thirsting]

Hm. I wouldn't mind seeing mixed human-navi teams exploring new, dangerous planets together.

Just ... what ever those new movies do, I hope it/they are not about meeting new exciting life-forms, and then shooting them.

[DigoDragon]

(Should I have bluetexted that? I wasn't entirely being sarcastic, seeing as how bad the original movie was...)

Not sarcastic enough; 10 points from Griffyndor. ;)

The movie borrows a little from Dances with Wolves I think?



Then she drops the robe revealing her bare endoskeleton, yeah?

*spittakes coffee*



Anyone reckon they'll actaully try and make the hexapods move like a hexapod creature should and not like a quadruped with and extra pair of legs? (I'm told.) 'Cos that's not, like, how biology works, SFX team.

That sounds like the kind of effort not usually seen in big cgi-budget action films. Maybe they'll surprise, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[BannedInSchool]

It's extremely apt. It's Dances with Wolves with space elves. Part of why it never really caught on outside the movie itself is because there wasn't one shred of originality in the plot. The movie did well because at the time the special effects were incredible!
For me it's not that the basic plot is nothing new, but that not much was fleshed-out over that, like just a Cliff's Notes version. Ah, there we go. It's not four new movies, but expanding the original into four movies to give the story some texture. :smallwink:

Oh, and I was actually briefly excited when I thought the space smurfs might lose at the end, but then they won and I was disappointed.

[Kalmageddon]

Count me in the "how the hell is he going to fill 4 sequels?" crowd. News of Avatar getting a sequel began to surface right after the first movie and even then I thought that Avatar didn't need or deserved a sequel. The only story I could actually see happening for a sequel is humanity returning, nuking everything and the rest of the movie being about the struggle to survive of the Na'vi and whatever. You know, a "my god what have we done?" movie about human greed and all that good stuff that Cameron loves.
But... 4 movies? What.

[Tyndmyr]

It does not necessarily have to be a sequel to the old story. The main appeal is probably that Pandora is a nice setting that the audience is already familiar with and invested in. You could tell any story you want. Na'Vi murder mystery! Future Na'Vi Indiana Jones hunting for a long lost artifact from the legendary time the humans came from the sky! Young adult Na'Vi refusing their society and the neural bond!

Of course, knowing Hollywood, none of this will happen and we will get the same old story rehashed four times until the franchise is dead or gets rebooted.

Seriously? The Pandora setting is basically a cliff and two trees. Oh wait, one tree is gone, so...we have one tree now.

It was a popcorn flick, not grand worldbuilding. And it was fine for what it was, but it's not the beginning of some epic that needs four more films. God no.


We could have been getting Battle Angel, but then Avatar happened.

This. I'd take that over all four sequels. Original cool stuff is good. That's part of why Avatar was popular. Well, granted, it wasn't original in story structure, but it at least had some novelty attached to it in terms of 3d, visuals, etc. Beating that to death with sequels just misses the point.

Unless, of course, the sequels follow the adventure of cyborg Mr "order the destruction of a race while sipping coffee". That, that I would watch the **** out of. Back from the dead, for revenge.

[Bulldog Psion]

Then she drops the robe revealing her bare endoskeleton, yeah?


FOUR? FOUR more? How much white guilt is James Cameron dealing with??


He buys it wholesale from China. It comes in 55 gal drums and tastes like marshmallows.

See, this is why something like even this piece of eyerolling news is worth something. You can always count on some funny comments on this forum! :smallbiggrin:


We could have been getting Battle Angel, but then Avatar happened.

Huh, now that's an interesting title. What's Battle Angel?

[tomandtish]

Then she drops the robe revealing her bare endoskeleton, yeah?

...And now I'm picturing Summer Glau as a blue-skinned Na'vi cyborg...

...And now I have guilt.

[brionl]

Let's see...
Aliens vs Avatar
Predator vs Avatar
Terminator vs Avatar
Predator & Avatar team up vs Terminator and Aliens

Hmm, need one more. How about those other aliens from Abyss?

[Thialfi]

I Don't know what he has in mind to take up 4 more movies either, but I'm done doubting James Cameron. He is amazingly successful at everything he does.

[JNAProductions]

I Don't know what he has in mind to take up 4 more movies either, but I'm done doubting James Cameron. He is amazingly successful at everything he does.

I think this is stretching even Cameron's capability.

[Waddacku]

Huh, now that's an interesting title. What's Battle Angel?

Cameron's planned adaption of Yukito Kishiro's Battle Angel Alita (original title: Gunnm), an ultraviolent post-apocalyptic manga about cyborgs and what it means to be human.

[DigoDragon]

Cameron's planned adaption of Yukito Kishiro's Battle Angel Alita (original title: Gunnm), an ultraviolent post-apocalyptic manga about cyborgs and what it means to be human.

Sounds a bit like Terminator 2. Well, that should be easy for him to make! :smalltongue:

[jidasfire]

Master Sergeant Murderface Killmore,

This shall be the name of my new metal band.

[Xefas]

*raises hand* It was me. I asked for 4 sequels to James Cameron's "Avatar".

I just want to watch the world burn.

[Kitten Champion]

*raises hand* It was me. I asked for 4 sequels to James Cameron's "Avatar".

I just want to watch the world burn.

If that world's Pandora, I'm right there with you.

[tomandtish]

I Don't know what he has in mind to take up 4 more movies either, but I'm done doubting James Cameron. He is amazingly successful at everything he does.

Well, not quite EVERYTHING (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082910/).....

[The Glyphstone]

Well, not quite EVERYTHING (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082910/).....

If the Terminator 2 commentary can be trusted, he was sort of shanghaied into that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_II:_The_Spawning


"I was replaced after two-and-a-half weeks by the Italian producer. He just fired me and took over, which is what he wanted to do when he hired me. It wasn't until much later that I even figured out what had happened. It was like, "Oh, man, I thought I was doing a good job." But when I saw what they were cutting together, it was horrible. And then the producer wouldn't take my name off the picture because [contractually] they couldn't deliver it with an Italian name. So they left me on, no matter what I did. I had no legal power to influence him from Pomona, California, where I was sleeping on a friend's couch. I didn't even know an attorney. In actual fact, I did some directing on the film, but I don't feel it was my first movie."

[Bulldog Psion]

If that world's Pandora, I'm right there with you.

This thread is hilarious. Thank you, people, your barbs directed at the Avatar franchise are making me chortle and snicker amid my difficulties! :smallbiggrin:

[Tvtyrant]

What if they take the story in the opposite direction? Make it an inverse Ender's Game, with the loss of lives being responded to by the planet aggressively wiping out mankind. FTL travel was made possible by magic space oil, and the planet had the largest of it right? And the planet is "alive" so it makes more virulent anti-viruses in response to the invasion and counter attacks. Mankind loses and is forced to abandon Earth, their ships being chased by an all powerful sentient planet until they shake it off by going near a black hole. Lost and beaten, they are forced to confront their own weakness.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Hollywood: We'll Run it Into the Ground, Whether You Want To or Not.

Who was asking for eight sequels to Madagascar? I remember the first Madagascar. An indistinct miasma of pop culture references and lolrandom humour. Now, here we are, waist deep in four sequels and another one coming down the chute right into our horrified open mouths and eyes.

[Eldariel]

I mean, the first movie was dull and predictable, not to mention containing enough idiot balls to blot out the sun. They completely skipped out on any number of potentially interesting stories and instead went with the "humans are retarded, and space magic happens while our hero gets the girl". It shouldn't be hard for a sequel to improve upon that no matter what they do. If they have 4 tries, maybe one of them won't be a crime against humanity. Though looking at Uwe Boll's productions, I wouldn't count on that. They should definitely make them "alternate world" stories and undo the events of the first movie though and just play with the world if they want any chance of making it work out.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I would ask for it if only for

Avatar 2 : "Word gets back to the Imperium of Mankind"

Avatar 3 : "Na'vii Make good Tyranid food"

Avatar 4 : "Lets get us some blue cat girl slaves to sacrifice to Slannnesh so he doesn't eat our souls

Avatar 5 : "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!" (BLUE ONES SQUISH GOOD!)

[The Glyphstone]

They'd squish good only if you could ever hit them - they are innately blue-skinned though, which makes them insanely and impossibly lucky.

[Kitten Champion]

I'm just had rather sad thought, that Avatar 5 could actually be a reboot.

I thought it jokingly, but...

[ryuplaneswalker]

they'd squish good only if you could ever hit them - they are innately blue-skinned though, which makes them insanely and impossibly lucky.

dat just make em more fun for boyz to squish!

[Grim Portent]

They'd squish good only if you could ever hit them - they are innately blue-skinned though, which makes them insanely and impossibly lucky.

So that's how the Tau have survived so long in 40k. :smalltongue:



On topic, the only thing I'd really like to see set in the same setting as Avatar is a speculative/fiction documentary like 'the Future is Wild', 'Walking with Monsters' or 'Walking with Dinosaurs'. I'd like to see an exploration of the behavior and food chain of the wildlife of Pandora rather than bother poking around the rather dull cat people again, the ecosystem has a much greater potential for interesting stories than they do.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I always imagined that the whole planet was really a ship. the 'Gaia force' was the computer and them jacking in and activating defenses...

[Alent]

I would ask for it if only for

Avatar 2 : "Word gets back to the Imperium of Mankind"

Avatar 3 : "Na'vii Make good Tyranid food"

Avatar 4 : "Lets get us some blue cat girl slaves to sacrifice to Slannnesh so he doesn't eat our souls

Avatar 5 : "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!" (BLUE ONES SQUISH GOOD!)

I have to admit, I almost called it "Dancing with Spacewolves", and then realized the obvious and only logical place that could go.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I have to admit, I almost called it "Dancing with Spacewolves", and then realized the obvious and only logical place that could go.

There is a joke in here somewhere about Lensman Russ, the Spacewolf Gene Seed..and him being a Furry.

[The Fury]

*spittakes coffee*



That was exactly the reaction that I was hoping for!

[SaintRidley]

I'm interested. If nothing else, it will be gorgeous. And that's really all I cared about with the first - it was visually arresting in a way I'd never experienced in a movie before.


I have to admit, I almost called it "Dancing with Spacewolves", and then realized the obvious and only logical place that could go.

A Na'vi Werespacewolf in London.

[Knaight]

I'm expecting it to be mediocre at best, but that just makes it one more movie to ignore. It's not advancing some obnoxious agenda, it's probably going to push some of the technical stuff which will then allow other movies to benefit later, and if it ends up successful (which I expect it will) it will also signal to the industry that science fiction and space opera are viable again - although I suspect that we're already seeing a trend towards it, between the reboots of Star Wars, the reboots of Star Trek, and The Martian.

[GloatingSwine]

Sounds a bit like Terminator 2. Well, that should be easy for him to make! :smalltongue:

It's all but custom written for Cameron, cyborgs, mechanical fetishism (even in Titanic we get long pans of steamer engines to satisfy that), kickass female lead, and he's owned the film rights to it since what, '99?



* Or George Miller. There's a lot of Mad Max influence in the manga, with bits of Sin City thrown in for good measure. (There's a side story where Yukito Kishiro basically wholesale reproduces Frank Miller's stark black and white style from Sin City).

[Aotrs Commander]

On topic, the only thing I'd really like to see set in the same setting as Avatar is a speculative/fiction documentary like 'the Future is Wild', 'Walking with Monsters' or 'Walking with Dinosaurs'. I'd like to see an exploration of the behavior and food chain of the wildlife of Pandora rather than bother poking around the rather dull cat people again, the ecosystem has a much greater potential for interesting stories than they do.

They'd have to make 'em move right first...

I'd be far more interested in seeing that (like, I'd be interested in seeing it, like, at all), though.

[Sam113097]

I feel like James Cameron has missed any chance of capitalizing on the success of the first film... it'll be almost 10 years between Avatar and Avatar 2. Despite the film's great visuals, it lacked depth, and it really hasn't left that large of a mark on pop culture for how much money it made.

[Alent]

There is a joke in here somewhere about Lensman Russ, the Spacewolf Gene Seed..and him being a Furry.

Nah, only Men can wield Arisia's Lens. :smallwink: *ducks*

[Giggling Ghast]

What's the overlap between W40K and Avatar again? I know there's some basis for the "suffer not the alien to live" jokes.

[Alent]

What's the overlap between W40K and Avatar again? I know there's some basis for the "suffer not the alien to live" jokes.

The human forces are PMCs, but they appear to largely be former US Marine Corps guys... in space. This opens the door for Space Marines jokes hence the slippery slope into 40k humor.

[The Glyphstone]

What's the overlap between W40K and Avatar again? I know there's some basis for the "suffer not the alien to live" jokes.

That's...pretty much it, really. Humans traveling to an alien planet to kill them and take their stuff.

[DataNinja]

That's...pretty much it, really. Humans traveling to an alien planet to kill them and take their stuff.

That sounds like every space-based RPG campaign ever.

[Legato Endless]

That sounds like every space-based RPG campaign ever.

No! Sometimes...the aliens come to us? :smallwink:

[GreatWyrmGold]

This thread was about one-quarter bashing Avatar, one-quarter rational points against Avatar sequels, and one-half cheesy-yet-funny comments. I can't think of any of the last and don't want to join in the first*, so I'll do the one in the middle.

Loosely speaking, there are four kinds of movie plots:
1. The plots which are left unfinished, to be resolved in sequels. E.g: Star Wars V.
2. The plots which have some plot threads dangling—enough to make a sequel and have it feel like it's directly connected—but which resolves of them to feel like it came to a conclusion, letting the movie stand on its own. E.g: Star Wars IV.
3. The plots which more or less wrap themselves up at the end. E.g: Star Wars VI.
3b. Plots like 3 but with a sequel hook tacked on just in case the film succeeds.
4. The plots which wrap themselves up at the end, but the resolution itself generates the seed of sequels. I can't think of any movies like that, but Worm qualifies.

Avatar is definitely Type 3, as are many great films*. (It's hard to make a solid narrative while leaving major conflicts hanging.) This is the source of many poor sequels. Ice Age, for instance, was a solid movie, where the three protagonists (well, Manny and Diego at least) went through significant character development and changed over the course of the film; at the end, they had learned from and grown through their experiences. It wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good...but there wasn't anything to build a sequel on. After all, a lot of what made Ice Age such an enjoyable movie is that growth and change...but it's hard to replicate that sort of feeling with the same characters. The Ice Age sequels were worse in my opinion, and objectively different, because they couldn't feature that same sort of change.
The same is true of non-character-driven plots. The Maximum Ride books are an example. The initial trilogy is structured much the same as the original Star Wars trilogy—one book which stands on its own, one book which takes threads left unanswered from the first to build a plot, and one to conclude that plot. Then another book tried to prolong that conflict by introducing remnants of the Big Bad's organization, then another introduced a new Big-Bad-of-the-Book, then another introduced a Marty Stu love interest, then another book or two came out. The books weren't really tied together the way the first trilogy was, and the more disjointed plot didn't hold up so well. (In my opinion.)
Avatar didn't have as much character growth or whatnot, but it definitely had conflict. Like the initial Maximum Ride trilogy, Avatar's plot was wrapped up pretty well in the one movie, and like Maximum Ride, I can see them prolonging that conflict to an extent. Also like Maximum Ride, I expect a degradation in quality over several sequels, but unlike Maximum Ride, there wasn't a lot of quality in plot or characters to begin with.

*Which isn't to say I like Avatar. It's a shallow blockbuster with unusually consistent alien wildlife, that's about it.

[ryuplaneswalker]

What's the overlap between W40K and Avatar again? I know there's some basis for the "suffer not the alien to live" jokes.

It is in space, and has Humans killing Xenos, you needed more?

[Legato Endless]

Avatar is definitely Type 3, as are many great films*. (It's hard to make a solid narrative while leaving major conflicts hanging.) This is the source of many poor sequels.


This is all excellent, but in fairness to Cameron, he has made sequels to films that didn't require any before and succeeded triumphantly. It's a bad practice, but there is the rare exception. Terminator 2 thematically contradicts Terminator 1 pretty resolutely and completely changes the way it's internal mechanics work, enough that fans going forward have a popular sport of attempting unifying theories for the franchise. But it's also one of the most popular action films of all time. Examining and deconstructing the pantheistic utopia of Pandora might give you a decent sci-fi yarn if framed obliquely enough. Avatar isn't supposed to be subtle so...what happens when the biological supercomputer controlling your world starts to go crazy?

[Forum Explorer]

I feel like James Cameron has missed any chance of capitalizing on the success of the first film... it'll be almost 10 years between Avatar and Avatar 2. Despite the film's great visuals, it lacked depth, and it really hasn't left that large of a mark on pop culture for how much money it made.

That's a good thing IMO. Any sequel will have to stand on it's own merits instead. As for Avatar, it was an alright movie. Not spectacular or favorite movie of all time, but I wouldn't turn it away if someone hadn't seen it for the first time. Though maybe my tolerance for it is because I've never seen Dances with Wolves. Though for all the complaints about the humans being idiots, I'm afraid that it isn't anything I haven't seen before (People really are that stupid).

Anyways, a sequel to Avatar? Sure, I'll give it a shot. Cameron has enough goodwill (he generally does a decent to good job), that I'll watch a sequel to a mediocre film. 4 sequels? Well that's kinda a WTF moment, but now I'm genuinely curious to see what he's planning to justify so many films.

[Wookieetank]

Number of times I've seen Avatar:1, number of times I want to re-watch it:0, amount of interest in the sequels: none. We really didn't need another Fern Gully/Pocahontas film (both of which I feel covered the same material better), let alone 4 more sequels of a cheap knockoff. Maybe I'm just picky, but shiny movies for the sake of shininess has never interested me. Main reason why SW:AotC is the single least watched SW movie by me, all flash and no substance a poor movie makes.

[Yora]

I'm just had rather sad thought, that Avatar 5 could actually be a reboot.

I thought it jokingly, but...

http://replygif.net/i/272.gif

[Kitten Champion]

http://replygif.net/i/272.gif

On the plus side, Jai Courtney would make a better Jake Sully than Kyle Reese.

[Reddish Mage]

Number of times I've seen Avatar:1, number of times I want to re-watch it:0, amount of interest in the sequels: none. We really didn't need another Fern Gully/Pocahontas film (both of which I feel covered the same material better), let alone 4 more sequels of a cheap knockoff. Maybe I'm just picky, but shiny movies for the sake of shininess has never interested me. Main reason why SW:AotC is the single least watched SW movie by me, all flash and no substance a poor movie makes.

You had to go to the Star Wars movie no one noticed existed to pick a bad movie? Picking on Attack of the Clones is like picking on a toddler in crutches, pick on a REAL movie that's all flash and no substance, and for extra measure you have a sequel to toss around:

I propose the most deserving movie of the "all flash no substance" label ever: INDEPENDENCE DAY!

[Donnadogsoth]

I propose the most deserving movie of the "all flash no substance" label ever: INDEPENDENCE DAY!

It's stinkin' it up with the worst of 'em, but you have to hand to it the sheer title and associated titular concept, which was as good a concept as that of Battlestar Galactica.

[The Glyphstone]

Hey. ID is not a GOOD movie, but it can be a damn FUN movie, which things like AotC can't even live up to.

[Lacuna Caster]

http://i.imgur.com/aqBeym1.jpg

I appear to have wandered into the wrong crowd...


We could have been getting Battle Angel, but then Avatar happened.
That does sadden me a little. Apparently, Cameron feels it's more important to focus on the Avatar series because of the environmental subtext, whereas Alita is 'just' a 'kickass story'*.

I actually really enjoyed Avatar, partly on the basis of sheer craftsmanship, and partly because of sympathy for the agenda, but I honestly had no complaints about the narrative**. As I understand it, the initial sequel is supposed to involve deep-sea ecology of some kind, and Quaritch/Augustine are slated to make an appearance.

I think there's definitely room for a sequel, and it'd be interesting to see how the looming threat of terrestrial retaliation is handled. (Going by Terminator 2, Cameron does seem capable of moral nuance, so some delving into Na'vi politics might still happen.)

* I'd disagree, btw- Battle Angel has a good deal of commentary on the setting's divide between rich and poor as exacerbated by transhuman science, which is hardly the least relevant of modern-day political topics. But that's another discussion.

** There's nothing original about it, of course, but given that audiences flocked in droves to see Force Awakens, I don't know where this complaint is coming from.

[Legato Endless]

Hey. ID is not a GOOD movie, but it can be a damn FUN movie, which things like AotC can't even live up to.

If we're making this a contest, I'd enter Green Lantern as duller and shallower than either.

[Lethologica]

** There's nothing original about it, of course, but given that audiences flocked in droves to see Force Awakens, I don't know where this complaint is coming from.
Head over to the TFA thread for analogous complaints. Agree or disagree with the complaint, it's consistent between those movies.

[warty goblin]

Hey. ID is not a GOOD movie, but it can be a damn FUN movie, which things like AotC can't even live up to.
I for one quite like Attack of the Clones. It fulfills what is to my mind the greatest mandate of any Star Wars movie; have some cool looking weird stuff and some explosions. Plus it's chockablock full of a really 1950s pulp vibe that I totally dig. Clones vs droids! An arena execution! Insectoid aliens! Bounty Hunters! I'm a simple man, these things make me happy.


http://i.imgur.com/aqBeym1.jpg

I appear to have wandered into the wrong crowd...


That does sadden me a little. Apparently, Cameron feels it's more important to focus on the Avatar series because of the environmental subtext, whereas Alita is 'just' a 'kickass story'*.

I actually really enjoyed Avatar, partly on the basis of sheer craftsmanship, and partly because of sympathy for the agenda, but I honestly had no complaints about the narrative**. As I understand it, the initial sequel is supposed to involve deep-sea ecology of some kind, and Quaritch/Augustine are slated to make an appearance.

Wait, you mean I'm not the only person who will actually stand up for liking Avatar in public? Well met, good poster!

[Lacuna Caster]

I actually did kinda hate TFA, partly on the basis of how utterly colour-by-numbers it felt. I don't know if that's just internal bias, but with the possible exception of Empire SW was never my thing.


I propose the most deserving movie of the "all flash no substance" label ever: INDEPENDENCE DAY!

Oh, while we're on this topic- Lindsay Ellis already did a thorough dissection (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hj_RcvOyQA): Basically, ID actually does have a substantive structure in terms of plot development and character arc- it's just formulaic, politically vacuous and propped up by CGI explosms.

[The Fury]

Wait, you mean I'm not the only person who will actually stand up for liking Avatar in public? Well met, good poster!

...Actually I'm sort of surprised that more people didn't duck into this thread to defend Avatar earlier on. When I posted my initial comment I thought I was in the minority of not liking Avatar. Maybe disliking Avatar is cool now? I have no idea.

[Wookieetank]

You had to go to the Star Wars movie no one noticed existed to pick a bad movie? Picking on Attack of the Clones is like picking on a toddler in crutches, pick on a REAL movie that's all flash and no substance, and for extra measure you have a sequel to toss around:

I propose the most deserving movie of the "all flash no substance" label ever: INDEPENDENCE DAY!

Being a huge SW fan (see my screen name :smallwink:), AotC is the only movie I've ever been tempted to walk out of because of just how gawdawful bored I was by it. For once Twilight is actually the better love story :smalleek:. I found AotC so bad it kept me from seeing RotS in theater (which is a bit of a bummer, because I ended up really enjoying RotS).

I guess I should have clarified no substance as more of a lacking any real interesting/compelling reason to watch it. I thought Indepencence Day was great personally (looking forward to ID2 more than any other movie this year even). ID may have been a lot of flash, but it had interesting characters, showed any number of different family dynamics and teen angst that was justified for once (single dad family, where the dad is a bit off his rocker and the eldest son having to take care of the rest of the family, I'd have had a chip or two on my shoulder from those circumstances).

It all comes down to preference I suppose, because I'll be more than happy to go see any Transformers (still need more robots, less humans I'll admit), Jurassic Park/World and NuTrek movies where SW has a lot of ground to recover for me to be super hyped for their movies (hopefully optimistic about Rouge One at this point, still need to see TFA).

[Thrudd]

I liked Avatar, saw it in 3D. I didn't see it more than once. I can't imagine what could be included in four more sequels, but I suppose Cameron's got a plan. I heard early on that he planned to do some under water stuff to showcase his love of deep sea exploration and conservation. I'm sure it will be beautiful visually.

As for the world and the story, I'll reserve judgement. The first movie definately was self contained and somewhat simplistic, so sequels will really need to turn the world building up a notch. However, I would like to see some trippy inner exploration of the world consciousness, if they are going back to that setting.

[Tyndmyr]

...Actually I'm sort of surprised that more people didn't duck into this thread to defend Avatar earlier on. When I posted my initial comment I thought I was in the minority of not liking Avatar. Maybe disliking Avatar is cool now? I have no idea.

Eh, I don't hate Avatar. I went to it expecting "Dances with Wolves in Space", and that's basically what I got. And fairly pretty, too. No worries. Good time, but no urge to rewatch the movie, or revisit the world. Some movies are just like that.

[Knaight]

I liked Avatar, saw it in 3D. I didn't see it more than once. I can't imagine what could be included in four more sequels, but I suppose Cameron's got a plan. I heard early on that he planned to do some under water stuff to showcase his love of deep sea exploration and conservation. I'm sure it will be beautiful visually.

I suspect that it being underwater also has the potential to give it another area in which to advance filming techniques, assuming that it is actually filmed underwater with CGI added after the fact. As dull as Avatar was from a writing perspective, the technical side was top notch across the board, and it raised several bars for subsequent works. It doing more of that is an unalloyed good as far as I'm concerned.

I still don't plan on seeing them, but I watch maybe one film a year in theaters, so that doesn't say much.

[JNAProductions]

It wasn't a bad movie. I liked it-and I get the feeling a lot of people here did too. It's just that it was liked for its stunning visuals and being gorgeous, not for any great story.

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, I have no particular urge to be "cool," I simply despised Avatar on its own demerits from the moment I saw it on an Air Astana flight somewhere over Russia, until now. :smallbiggrin:

[Admiral Squish]

I'm... disappointed by this news. I'll admit, I enjoyed Avatar in a 'turn your brain off and look at the pretty lights' kinda way. I don't think anyone claims the story to be rich and involved and fascinating. A bunch of the themes never sat well with me, honestly. Namely the 'white guy comes and is suddenly a better native than the natives', the 'scientists are closed-minded', and the 'natives don't want the advantages of civilization' bits, all of which are just ridiculous. Still, it wrapped up neatly, there was a cool world, and the visuals were pretty incredible.
I can't help but feel that anything you do to revisit Pandora after that would be anything but a sad decline. Either the humans do the smart thing and bombard the planet from orbit, which means you don't have four movies worth of material, or you just spend four more movies pounding the message of 'humans are bad, save the environment' into our collective skulls with a sledgehammer.

[Lethologica]

I read at least one film critic who lauded Avatar for delivering an overtly anti-colonial, pro-insurgent message. In his words (https://www.quora.com/Was-Avatars-story-good-Why-or-why-not):


Human viewers sat in that film and cheered as indigenous people rallied and
decided that colonization and invaders must be not only resisted, but attacked mercilessly even if they are no longer attacking the indigenous people and even if they supposedly "try" to avoid hostilities and "try" to not directly attack the indigenous population. It doesn't matter -- nothing matters except fighting and defeating the colonizer, because it is not just a right but a moral obligation to resist until your last breath. And audiences cheered that, even when it meant these indigenous resistance fighters were launching an organized attack against former U.S. military personnel acting as private security firm trying to secure a vital precious energy resource.
Of course, I think the originality of the concept is drastically overrated. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to call this a 'timely' movie theme.

[DigoDragon]

I'll admit, I enjoyed Avatar in a 'turn your brain off and look at the pretty lights' kinda way.

Yeah, that's about what I think of when I look back at it. I wouldn't care to see it again, but it was a very pretty movie. In fact, possibly the last movie I ever saw in 3D. Though, I rarely saw any movies in 3D overall, so... maybe I'm not saying much.

Sadly, the two characters I liked the most end up dead (Grace and Trudy). :smalltongue:

[AMFV]

Because it's happening. (http://collider.com/avatar-2-sequels-james-cameron-2018) Woo-hoo.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Avatar is bad or anything, as a stand-alone movie... but I just can't find it in me to get excited about sequels. James Cameron is a talented director with a lot of financial clout and creative freedom, and it saddens me to see him spend so much of the rest of his career on a rather bland franchise. Not to mention that there are only so many big blockbusters that the market can support annually.

Still, better this than Transformers sequels, I guess.

I'm not sure, I'm going to wait till there's at least one sequel before I make my mind up.

[BannedInSchool]

Well, I didn't like Avatar, ID4, or the Matrix back before it was cool not to like them. :smallwink: I guess I wouldn't call them bad movies exactly. They're all well-made, but shallow. I am not entertained. Ooh, also didn't like Gladiator for the same reason. Pretty, but not an engaging story for me. :smalltongue:

[Lacuna Caster]

Sadly, the two characters I liked the most end up dead (Grace and Trudy). :smalltongue:

I can never get enough of Michelle Rodriguez.

[Giggling Ghast]

I never liked Avatar, but Independence Day is still pretty entertaining.

[Eldariel]

...Actually I'm sort of surprised that more people didn't duck into this thread to defend Avatar earlier on. When I posted my initial comment I thought I was in the minority of not liking Avatar. Maybe disliking Avatar is cool now? I have no idea.

I'm guessing this community has a larger concentration of the types who aren't particularly impressed by all-CGI-no-substance movies, especially compared to Cameron's earlier movies that actually score pretty well on verisimilitude and internal consistency, not to mention interesting characters and new angles of exploration on old themes. I highly doubt it's a hivemind phenomenon of any kind - people here seem to almost relish arguing trivial matters, and opinions in general appear very rarely influenced by the local atmosphere. Certainly, judging by IMDB ratings at least the popular opinion still remains that the majority enjoyed it even with all its flaws and thus the popular consensus will tie some of the wealthiest film producers and best CGI crews onto making the sequel. Then again, it seems the zeitgeist is sequels and remakes, so I suppose not much of value is lost.

[tomandtish]

...Actually I'm sort of surprised that more people didn't duck into this thread to defend Avatar earlier on. When I posted my initial comment I thought I was in the minority of not liking Avatar. Maybe disliking Avatar is cool now? I have no idea.

As some have said, there are those who didn't like it at all. There are those who loved it. And there are those of us who really admired the visuals. The CGI and the 3D were groundbreaking at the time and it was worth seeing once on a big screen to really get a feel for how they made those things work.



It wasn't a bad movie. I liked it-and I get the feeling a lot of people here did too. It's just that it was liked for its stunning visuals and being gorgeous, not for any great story.

Exactly.

And unless they have some substantially new breakthroughs in visuals, I'm not sure where they can go with this. The story of the first wasn't engaging, and high-end visual effect films are commonplace now.

[Murk]

Eh, we know too little to judge.

There's no need for it to go back to Pandora. There's no need for it to be set in the same era. Maybe it'll be an exploration of Hindu Avatar's? A spiritual journey through cgi? Maybe it'll be "Pocahontas underwater" instead of Pocahontas in Space.

I could see a series of films that feature the avatar technology and how it functions in different environments.
I could see a series that explores the concepts of avatars, technological, spiritual, how they function in war, in nature, in daily life (Avatar: the Midlife Crisis?)
I could see a series that really owns the Pocahontas theme and puts it first in space, then under water, then in a desert, then in a historical setting, then, say, inside the human brain!!! or whatever.

OK, that all sounds pretty ridiculous, but it's possible. Especially with five movies, I don't think we should expect to always revisit the settings from the first movie.
I hope not, anyway.

[Wookieetank]

Especially with five movies, I don't think we should expect to always revisit the settings from the first movie.
I hope not, anyway.

Tatooine sends its regards :smallwink::smalltongue:

[Murk]

Tatooine sends its regards :smallwink::smalltongue:

Well, Tatooine kind of became the running gag of the galaxy, I think. It was completely irrelevant but everybody ended up there.

Not sure why they suddenly gave it another name in the latest movie, though :smallwink:

[Wookieetank]

Well, Tatooine kind of became the running gag of the galaxy, I think. It was completely irrelevant but everybody ended up there.

Not sure why they suddenly gave it another name in the latest movie, though :smallwink:

You mean Jakarta isn't neighboring the Jundland Wastes? I just thought the characters didn't realize that their home territory name wasn't the planet's actual name :smallconfused::smalltongue:

[The Fury]

I'm guessing this community has a larger concentration of the types who aren't particularly impressed by all-CGI-no-substance movies,

In my experience a lot of this movie's fans either don't agree that it's "no-substance" or seem to think that claiming it's "no-substance" is missing the point. Yeah, I don't really get it either.


Well, Tatooine kind of became the running gag of the galaxy, I think. It was completely irrelevant but everybody ended up there.

Not sure why they suddenly gave it another name in the latest movie, though :smallwink:

No, no. It's totes a different planet... It's Not-ooine.

[Eldan]

I would have gone for This-ooine and Tat-ooine.

[Wookieetank]

I would have gone for This-ooine and Tat-ooine.

Were-ooine, There-ooine, Nacho-ooine, Mini-ooine, Macro-ooine, really they should just rename the 'verse Oonie at this point.

[warty goblin]

The reason Star Wars spends so much time on desert planets, and Tatooine in particular, is really very simple. Rey is totally Luke's daughter, and the Skywalkers aren't actually human, but a similar looking species with a very strange reproductive cycle:

1) At least one parent must abandon the young on a desert planet. Optionally, one of the parents may remain with the young, but this is not necessary.
2) The offspring manifests Force powers, and leaves the desert planet.
3) The offspring is instrumental in the overthrow of a galactic system of government. One or more limbs may be lost during this stage, signaling that the offspring is now an adult, and will soon select a mate.
4) During or shortly after step 3, the now adult offspring mates, and begins seeking a suitable desert world on which to abandon their offspring. It may also be necessary to ensure there is a galactic government sufficiently advanced for the new Skywalker to overthrow and mature. Like a wasp providing her young with paralyzed caterpillars, the Skywalker is a caring, if generally absentee, parent.

This is why nobody really tried particularly hard to hide Luke from Vader, who obviously knew Luke was there the entire time. Tatooine was an established Skywalker nesting site, Vader was merely waiting for his offspring to mature sufficiently to leave the planet and overthrow the galactic government. Leia did need to be hidden however, because she represented a significant mutation away from normal Skywalker reproductive cycles by not being quasi-abandoned on a desert planet. Note however that the Skywalker penchant for the destruction of interstellar ruling bodies remained intact in Leia, despite her atypical upbringing, suggesting that this trait is genetic, rather than a peculiar result of the usual nesting environment.

[Lethologica]

And Leia's son, despite lacking both abandonment and a desert planet, overthrew Luke's Jedi academy and then tried to overthrow the new Republic. His failure (?) signals his unreadiness to mate--which explains a lot, really.

[warty goblin]

And Leia's son, despite lacking both abandonment and a desert planet, overthrew Luke's Jedi academy and then tried to overthrow the new Republic. His failure (?) signals his unreadiness to mate--which explains a lot, really.

Exactly. Without a desert environment, with both parents around, and lacking a strong galactic government to overthrow, Ben Skywalker was unable to fully pupate, and so is left in an unpleasant, partly matured state. Rey, having benefited from full parental abandonment and a desert planet environment, is clearly the alpha Skywalker of this generation. Soon she will fulfill her destiny by squashing her malformed cousin, probably losing a hand in the process, and overthrowing the First Order again.

The only question is whether she is able to abandon her offspring in some desert hellhole while constructing a new galactic tyranny, as is right and proper.

[wobner]

We could have been getting Battle Angel, but then Avatar happened.

just found this on imdb and didn't see it mentioned here yet, thought people might be interested. it looks like Robert Rodriguez will be getting it(battle angel), and Cameron will still be working on it if I read that right

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni59763803?pf_rd_m=A2FGELUUNOQJNL&pf_rd_p=2418398782&pf_rd_r=0WNVPEVH4BST8QZCXNMG&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_t=15061&pf_rd_i=homepage&ref_=hm_nw_tp4

[Alent]

I'm guessing this community has a larger concentration of the types who aren't particularly impressed by all-CGI-no-substance movies, especially compared to Cameron's earlier movies that actually score pretty well on verisimilitude and internal consistency, not to mention interesting characters and new angles of exploration on old themes. I highly doubt it's a hivemind phenomenon of any kind - people here seem to almost relish arguing trivial matters, and opinions in general appear very rarely influenced by the local atmosphere. Certainly, judging by IMDB ratings at least the popular opinion still remains that the majority enjoyed it even with all its flaws and thus the popular consensus will tie some of the wealthiest film producers and best CGI crews onto making the sequel. Then again, it seems the zeitgeist is sequels and remakes, so I suppose not much of value is lost.

Personally, I felt like the issue was Cameron's accidental promise. I can't lay my hand on the source for the quote right now, but it was aired often back then and he basically said "I had the idea for this movie and the technology didn't exist to make it, so I spent ten years making the technology so I could tell the story..." or something to that effect. He was trying to explain why it took him so long to make Avatar, but what he ended up doing was setting up an impossible expectation.

On watching the movie, I loved the visuals, and overall enjoyed it, but it failed to deliver on the promise of "I need this technology to tell the story" because the story was already told decades prior with less technology. The story was executed so poorly as to be forgettable, which left me with mixed feelings about a sequel- I liked the movie for the visual spectacle, but the story... Ow. The story was both bad and wrote itself into a corner, the only logical next step is for the humans to come back and either glass the planet or burn away the atmosphere trying like an H:FY! thread.

The question of "How far will mankind go to win?" was the only question relative to a sequel, and the longer that question went unanswered the less people cared, to the point that now Cameron sounds delusional for thinking he can get one sequel, let alone four.

Cameron could blow us away with something we've never imagined- he's good at that- but if he's going to do that, he needs to just make the movie instead of promising four.

[Olinser]

There's plenty in the universe that can still be explored.

Earth seemed to have a relatively advanced interstellar program. So it would be easy to move the story to a different frontier world in the same universe.

As for the world itself - it wasn't stated outright, but the implication was definitely there that the ore they were after was either extremely rare or completely unique to the Na'vi world. So there is definitely a big reason for them to go back.

[Shrimpboy107]

Ok so the thing is, that movie was listed #1 for revenue in whatever year it came out, 2009 or something I wanna say. But like. Honestly I'm not too hype for the following films... like what else is going to go on? Idk, the movie was pretty good but I can't see a sequel doing anything more than ruining it tbh.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

4 Sequels? I dunno. I mean, I'm up for one, but I can't see where he can go after Avatar II: This Time, We Didn't Forget The Bloody Nukes.

Silly Cameron. Honestly, I don't think Avatar was actually that bad. Over-hyped, utterly unoriginal, whiny, preachy, mediocre at best, but not actually bad as long as you didn't treat it as more than a mindless pretty-scenery-and-explosion-fest. Really, the action sequences were fairly decent. Had it not been so massively hyped as James Cameron's Big Fat 'Masterpiece', it wouldn't get anywhere near the hate it does.

But this is the thing you're trying to make into a franchise? Hahahano.

[BannedInSchool]

Ooh, ooh! The first sequel will reveal that the original was just a hallucination/dream that whatshisface had when going into the tank for the first time. :smallwink:

[Kantaki]

Ooh, ooh! The first sequel will reveal that the original was just a hallucination/dream that whatshisface had when going into the tank for the first time. :smallwink:

Please not. That would mean we have to go through the whole mess again. The movie wasn't that that good.:smalltongue:

No seriously, four sequels? Not that I wouldn't like another Avatar movie, but four? I'm not sure how well that will work.

[Wookieetank]

No seriously, four sequels? Not that I wouldn't like another Avatar movie, but four? I'm not sure how well that will work.

Avatar 2: The Last Firebender
Avatar 3: The Last Earthbender
Avatar 4: The Last Waterbender
Avatar 5: The Last Airbender Reboot

...What? :smallwink:

[Vizzerdrix]

Discussing plans for a Terminator/Titanic crossover?

Oooooh! It could be a love story about a rogue terminator who goes back in time to be with the boat it loves, but it turns out hes MADE from recycled titanic bits, so in the end Titanic has to throw itself into the berg so the terminator can be made in the first place.

[Wookieetank]

Oooooh! It could be a love story about a rogue terminator who goes back in time to be with the boat it loves, but it turns out hes MADE from recycled titanic bits, so in the end Titanic has to throw itself into the berg so the terminator can be made in the first place.

This I could see myself going to see. The Avatar bit could come in where the terminator is actually a human uploaded into it through the Avatar Tech.

[Scowling Dragon]

I would be super entertained if the whole movie was a massive trolling series by Cameron. To the point that the first movie was just a set up for the reveal.

That the whole movie is nothing but the killed military dudes brother returning in a even bigger, ultra souped up, mech and the rest of the film is him just grinding all the Navi and rainforest into nothing but mush.

And its set to the Megas XLR sountrack


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZ4hCJyb4I

Then during the reception awards for special effects, Camercon skateboards in wearing sunglasses and a backwards hat, yells "Later Loosers!" and just explodes away.