Second Level Eldritch Knight Spells

[ShirAhn]

Hi,

According to some research I have done, when a eldritch knight reaches level 7 he can choose a new level 2 spell.

One of the following:

Aganazzar's Scorcher
Arcane Lock
Continual Flame
Darkness
Gust of Wind
Melf's Acid Arrow
Scorching Ray
Shatter
Snilloc's Snowball Swarm


None of these spells really make sense to me. The knight has excellent choices for first level spells like absorb elements, shield, minor illusion. None of these spells require a saving throw or spell attack. So the knight can go full melee and add these spells to his defense and sometimes offensive capabilities whilst keeping his Intelligence score mediocre. The character already has to focus on Dex(or Str) and Const as primary attributes. However second level spells almost all require either a saving throw (mostly CON) or spell attacks. The exception being darkness. Can anyone give advice on the situation? Am I missing something?

[Haveatya]

Shatter is good for breaking inanimate objects. Darkness is great for crowd control even if you can't see.

[Saggo]

Level 7 is pretty bare, but at 8 you get your next any school spell. That opens a wide set of possibilities, including but not limited to Blur, Mirror Image, Misty Step, and Magic Weapon. Level 2 slots are pretty significant at that point.

[Slipperychicken]

My DM just lets me pick whatever spells I want off the wizard list. EK casting is nerfed enough as it is.


Given that list of 2nd level spells, I'd feel tempted to just pick another level 1 spell instead.

[Asmodouche]

Arcane Lock isn't attribute dependant. That could be useful. Plus 10 DC to break down a wooden door should be about 25 which will keep out a lot of things.

[ShirAhn]

My DM just lets me pick whatever spells I want off the wizard list. EK casting is nerfed enough as it is.


Given that list of 2nd level spells, I'd feel tempted to just pick another level 1 spell instead.

Is EK viable enough? Lets say compared to Ranger (Hunter)? I dont have to be the perfect warrior, but I figured a Dex based High Elf with a shield gets about 17 AC and descent damage (1d8 +2 from duelist). Then with action surge his damage should be on par with most damage dealers. And he can use spells to make him more all round, shield for more AC when needed. I just love the thought of absorbing incoming spells with "Absorb Elements" and returning that damage in my next attack.

I agree that level 8 does give allot of cool options. I Guess Ill just try and it and if I feel underwhelming Ill talk to the DM. If anyone can give any thoughts or tips on the matter it would be greatly appreciated.

[Saggo]

Is EK viable enough? Lets say compared to Ranger (Hunter)? I dont have to be the perfect warrior, but I figured a Dex based High Elf with a shield gets about 17 AC and descent damage (1d8 +2 from duelist). Then with action surge his damage should be on par with most damage dealers. And he can use spells to make him more all round, shield for more AC when needed. I just love the thought of absorbing incoming spells with "Absorb Elements" and returning that damage in my next attack.
Eldritch Knight is always viable. It has the full Fighter chassis behind it, which has some of the best DPR regardless of archetype. Ranger will have better DPR for the first half primarily thanks to Hunter's Mark and Horde Breaker/Colossus Slayer, but as you noticed you'll be much harder to kill. When Fighter gets its 2nd Extra Attack and Eldritch Knight gets Haste, EK can surpass Hunter.

Although it technically works in practice, Dex-based Sword & Board doesn't mesh as well Str-based regardless of class, more so if you include feats. Str-based will higher AC and can use Heavy Armor Master, Long Sword is comparable to Rapier, and you'll have Shove and Grapple options with Athletics/Shield Master (and as good or better Dex saves). Thing is, Eldritch Knight especially can use two-handed weapons and still be very defensive, thanks to spells and heavy armor. All depends on your character concept.

[ShirAhn]

Eldritch Knight is always viable. It has the full Fighter chassis behind it, which has some of the best DPR regardless of archetype. Ranger will have better DPR for the first half primarily thanks to Hunter's Mark and Horde Breaker/Colossus Slayer, but as you noticed you'll be much harder to kill. When Fighter gets its 2nd Extra Attack and Eldritch Knight gets Haste, EK can surpass Hunter.

Although it technically works in practice, Dex-based Sword & Board doesn't mesh as well Str-based regardless of class, more so if you include feats. Str-based will higher AC and can use Heavy Armor Master, Long Sword is comparable to Rapier, and you'll have Shove and Grapple options with Athletics/Shield Master (and as good or better Dex saves). Thing is, Eldritch Knight especially can use two-handed weapons and still be very defensive, thanks to spells and heavy armor. All depends on your character concept.

Thank you for this, I think I made my choice. A human (feat) with 16 str and 16 const. Some dex and wis and low int and cha. Chain mail and a 2h sword (no shield). I guess with GWF. I think the Martial Adept feat gives me some cool flexibilty aswell. A chance for advantage with feinting attack or a little extra chance to hit with precision strike. Then only spells that dont require skillchecks or attavkroles like listed before.

I think i will have a sturdy allround character that seems allot of fun outside combat aswell.

[Night Eternal]

Eldritch Knight is always viable. It has the full Fighter chassis behind it, which has some of the best DPR regardless of archetype. Ranger will have better DPR for the first half primarily thanks to Hunter's Mark and Horde Breaker/Colossus Slayer, but as you noticed you'll be much harder to kill. When Fighter gets its 2nd Extra Attack and Eldritch Knight gets Haste, EK can surpass Hunter.

Although it technically works in practice, Dex-based Sword & Board doesn't mesh as well Str-based regardless of class, more so if you include feats. Str-based will higher AC and can use Heavy Armor Master, Long Sword is comparable to Rapier, and you'll have Shove and Grapple options with Athletics/Shield Master (and as good or better Dex saves). Thing is, Eldritch Knight especially can use two-handed weapons and still be very defensive, thanks to spells and heavy armor. All depends on your character concept.

im playing an ek right now I want to be able to do more damage but still not have a disadvantage and stealth and acrobatics . And what would be the alternative if I give up and go heavy armour what would I do

[Specter]

Even if your INT is low, grab Shatter for AoE damage. Against s mob it's much better than straight attacking.

Also, EK's Expertise is tanking. If you play your cards right, you may have a temporary AC of 28, and a lot of hit points for when that fails. Also War Magic makes the SCAG cantrips amazing.

There's the guide in my signature, for what it's worth.

[Saggo]

im playing an ek right now I want to be able to do more damage but still not have a disadvantage and stealth and acrobatics . And what would be the alternative if I give up and go heavy armour what would I do

Rather broad question, and again depends on character concept. If you're not using Heavy Armor, you're relying on Dex in some capacity. If you're relying on Dex, then a ranged build would be the most effective damage, long bows or heavy/hand crossbows. Use ASIs to max Dex and get Sharpshooter/Crossbow Expert, then get Medium Armor Master, you'll have 18 AC and no stealth disadvantage. Minor Illusion and Skulker or Wood Elf combo well here. Ray of Frost is good for keeping hostiles at a distance, or Greenflame/Booming Blade as a backup.

Pick spells for mobility and utility: Find Familiar (Owl Flyby Help shenanigans), Expeditious Retreat, Misty Step, and Haste for free picks. For normal picks, take Shield (because Shield), Darkness (place it near you for concealment inbetween attacks) Fireball (use ranged attacks on 3-4 targets for Eldritch Strike, then Action Surge Fireball), and anything else that catches your eye. Mobility and DPR a Rogue would envy, although I should point out Arcane Trickster multiclass meshes well here.

If you desperately want to be in melee pick Duelist or Two Weapon Fighting, but neither of those work as well (though they'll still work). Arcane Trickster would be a better Dex-based hybrid melee build.

If you want Heavy Armor... beg the DM for an item that gives stealth advantage to cancel it out.

[rhouck]

Do you have access to all of the Elemental Evil spells?

If so, Warding Wind is an interesting one for an EK. Concentration lasting up to 10 minutes.

A strong wind (20 miles per hour) blows around you in a 10-foot radius and moves with you, remaining centered on you. The wind lasts for the spell’s duration.
The wind has the following effects:
• It deafens you and other creatures in its area.
• It extinguishes unprotected flames in its area that are torch-sized or smaller.
• The area is difficult terrain for creatures other than you.
• The attack rolls of ranged weapon attacks have disadvantage if they pass in or out of the wind.
• It hedges out vapor, gas, and fog that can be dispersed by strong wind.

Has a variety of different effects that are such situationally useful. Standing in front of squishies makes it hard for archers to hit them. The difficult terrain means that it is very hard for enemies to run away from you (if you want to tank) or reach you (if you want to keep space). And small other effects that can protect against audible effects (e.g., banshee wail) and gases (e.g., any of the "cloud" spells).

[Tanarii]

The character already has to focus on Dex(or Str) and Const as primary attributes.Here's what you're overlooking.

EKs were designed to be (Str or Dex) / Int character. As it demonstrates right in the quick build. Con is intended to be a tertiary ability score for them, not a secondary one. They're intended to know and use saving throw and attack roll spells for AoE capability. And if a Str build, for ranged attack capability.

Edit: In other words, Shatter.

[djreynolds]

Take mirror image at 8th.

Better yet, multiclass into wizard to expand you selection. 2 levels of abjurer is quite nice, or 2 levels of evocation.

[PoeticDwarf]

Is EK viable enough? Lets say compared to Ranger (Hunter)? I dont have to be the perfect warrior, but I figured a Dex based High Elf with a shield gets about 17 AC and descent damage (1d8 +2 from duelist). Then with action surge his damage should be on par with most damage dealers. And he can use spells to make him more all round, shield for more AC when needed. I just love the thought of absorbing incoming spells with "Absorb Elements" and returning that damage in my next attack.

I agree that level 8 does give allot of cool options. I Guess Ill just try and it and if I feel underwhelming Ill talk to the DM. If anyone can give any thoughts or tips on the matter it would be greatly appreciated.

EK is way better than champion. Probably 'bove purple dragon knight and for tanks and utility above battle master. At least