Moving a grappled foe... How does it work?

[NewbieDMaster]

Just like the title says, I am wondering how the mechanics work when you are moving with a grappled foe.
In previous editions, I recall the target being moved into your square, making it easy to handle movement... You were just one square. But now, they stay in their square, and you stay in yours...
I know you can drag or carry the target at half speed, but what about rotating? It doesn't cost any movement to turn around... So can I rotate a grappled foe around me freely?
I can't find anything in the books or with a basic search...

[BiPolar]

Just like the title says, I am wondering how the mechanics work when you are moving with a grappled foe.
In previous editions, I recall the target being moved into your square, making it easy to handle movement... You were just one square. But now, they stay in their square, and you stay in yours...
I know you can drag or carry the target at half speed, but what about rotating? It doesn't cost any movement to turn around... So can I rotate a grappled foe around me freely?
I can't find anything in the books or with a basic search...

There are no "facing" rules in standard 5e, so the concept of rotating around is avoided. However, if you play with flanking/facing I'd still probably rule you can rotate around at no movement cost.

[R.Shackleford]

Grapple is a bad term for what 5e gives us. The term "Grab" should have been used.

Grappling implies actually wrestling a target but nothing in the mechanical rules really points to that. Fluff yeah, but not the mechanics.

From SRD
"Grappling
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the grappled condition (see appendix A). The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).

Escaping a Grapple: A grappled creature can use its action to escape. To do so, it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by your Strength (Athletics) check.

Moving a Grappled Creature: When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you."

Bold/underline by me.

There is no facing and things are vastly simplified. Just bring your enemy with you.

[RickAllison]

So the main problem I see with allowing free rotation is shenanigans with Spike Growth. Positioning can be very important, however. If you have a buddy with GFB, two enemies 10 ft apart are significantly less useful than two enemies 5 ft apart.

Houserule solution: It takes double the movement to move your grappled creatures with you, but it only takes regular movement to move independently of the target or move the target independently of you.

Still allows for Spike Growth shenanigans, but at least it codifies the rules for more reasonable purposes.

[NewbieDMaster]

Thank you for the very fast replies!


There is no facing and things are vastly simplified. Just bring your enemy with you.

I get that. And it is simple and it works... Most of the time... But let's say, for example, I wanna move my opponent into a bonfire...
F=Fire O=opponent M=me

F MO

In this scenario, would I have to move all the way around the fire? Or could I just back up to the fire and pivot my opponent into it?

[RickAllison]

Thank you for the very fast replies!



I get that. And it is simple and it works... Most of the time... But let's say, for example, I wanna move my opponent into a bonfire...
F=Fire O=opponent M=me

F MO

In this scenario, would I have to move all the way around the fire? Or could I just back up to the fire and pivot my opponent into it?

No official rules on this. See previous post on my proposed solution.

[NewbieDMaster]

Houserule solution: It takes double the movement to move your grappled creatures with you, but it only takes regular movement to move independently of the target or move the target independently of you.

That is a fine houserule RickAllison, and I may be inclined to use it.
Right now however, I am trying to find something RAW that handles how this works. If nothing exists, then I will of course have to sit down with my DMs and work out another houserule for our games.

Thank you for the reply.

[RickAllison]

That is a fine houserule RickAllison, and I may be inclined to use it.
Right now however, I am trying to find something RAW that handles how this works. If nothing exists, then I will of course have to sit down with my DMs and work out another houserule for our games.

Thank you for the reply.

Do post if you find anything, my grappling minotaur is quite fond of using GFB with his horns...

[Joe the Rat]

The other "no pivoting rules" option for this specific scenario is you spin around the opponent, grab, then push them in.

F MO

F O
...M

F OM

10-15 feet of movement (depending on how you diagonal), use remaining... 7-10 of actual move to push them in. Or save some move and just drag from the side. It's only half move for dragging the guy along. You aren't slowed if you move and he doesn't.


You could also make the argument that the half speed is about you using your move to move the other person - in which case you use 10-15 to move them around, then have 15-20 to move the last 7-10 into the fire. Again, this is an interpretation, not a solid ruling.

[NewbieDMaster]

The other "no pivoting rules" option for this specific scenario is you spin around the opponent, grab, then push them in.

F MO

F O
...M

F OM

10-15 feet of movement (depending on how you diagonal), use remaining... 7-10 of actual move to push them in. Or save some move and just drag from the side. It's only half move for dragging the guy along. You aren't slowed if you move and he doesn't.


You could also make the argument that the half speed is about you using your move to move the other person - in which case you use 10-15 to move them around, then have 15-20 to move the last 7-10 into the fire. Again, this is an interpretation, not a solid ruling.

Thank you! That is exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for.

[BiPolar]

Thank you! That is exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for.

To be clear, both Joe The Rat and RickAlison's suggestions are houserules because of the lack of official direction.

[R.Shackleford]

To be clear, both Joe The Rat and RickAlison's suggestions are houserules because of the lack of official direction.

Which is what the game wants.

The game was based around less finicky rules and for DMs to make decisions...

However the way it was made just puts the finicky rules on the shoulders of the DM and DMs looking for an official answer via Twitter/WotC website instead of in the pages of their book.

By selling an incomplete game marketed as "rules light" (its not rules light) they can get people paying attention to their social media presence and going to their website.

[BiPolar]

Which is what the game wants.

The game was based around less finicky rules and for DMs to make decisions...

However the way it was made just puts the finicky rules on the shoulders of the DM and DMs looking for an official answer via Twitter/WotC website instead of in the pages of their book.

By selling an incomplete game marketed as "rules light" (its not rules light) they can get people paying attention to their social media presence and going to their website.

That's all fine and dandy, but there are many cases where RAW completely handles a situation. This is not one of them and OP was asking for RAW.

[NewbieDMaster]

The game was based around less finicky rules and for DMs to make decisions...

I rather like this personaly. I have found it somewhat refreshing to be away with 3.5s book after book filed with odd corner rules that almost never come up in game.
The only problem is, some of my players like to argue about intent and what makes sense, and sometimes this can take up a HUGE portion of the game...
So I try to find RAW when I can... To prevent the long discussion...

[Hrugner]

Just like the title says, I am wondering how the mechanics work when you are moving with a grappled foe.
In previous editions, I recall the target being moved into your square, making it easy to handle movement... You were just one square. But now, they stay in their square, and you stay in yours...
I know you can drag or carry the target at half speed, but what about rotating? It doesn't cost any movement to turn around... So can I rotate a grappled foe around me freely?
I can't find anything in the books or with a basic search...

While facing isn't a thing, and rotating doesn't typically cost you movement, dragging requires your character to spend movement as described in the moving a grappled foe paragraph. Movement however doesn't require you to leave your five foot square; for example, you can jump up and down in place spending movement. Rotating your target requires you to move and bring the target with you, but moving within your square would let you move the grappled foe without moving out of your own square. We know the cost of dragging a grappled foe is twice the distance moved, so rotating them requires that same movement regardless of the specific type of movement used.

[R.Shackleford]

That's all fine and dandy, but there are many cases where RAW completely handles a situation. This is not one of them and OP was asking for RAW.

The RAW is ask the DM.

Edit: 5e doesn't have less finicky rules, it actually causes more finicky rules because you have to ask the DM for specifics.

You can have specific rules without getting finicky.

[BiPolar]

The RAW is ask the DM.

Edit: 5e doesn't have less finicky rules, it actually causes more finicky rules because you have to ask the DM for specifics.

You can have specific rules without getting finicky.

C'mon shackleford. If you want to go there then the RAW for any question is Ask the DM. While technically true, it ignores that there are a great many of functions that are clearly outlined in the source books.

But, if we want to go RAW, then I'd say that without facing rules, then there is no movement to change position, only movement to move them into a hex that causes damage (fire, etc.)

[R.Shackleford]

C'mon shackleford. If you want to go there then the RAW for any question is Ask the DM. While technically true, it ignores that there are a great many of functions that are clearly outlined in the source books.

But, if we want to go RAW, then I'd say that without facing rules, then there is no movement to change position, only movement to move them into a hex that causes damage (fire, etc.)

No.

RAW for what the rules state is RAW.

RAW for anything the rules don't state is ask your DM.

5e relies heavily on "rule 0" and make stuff up as you go. Now a DM would be able to change their minds or compromise.

[BiPolar]

No.

RAW for what the rules state is RAW.

RAW for anything the rules don't state is ask your DM.

5e relies heavily on "rule 0" and make stuff up as you go. Now a DM would be able to change their minds or compromise.

What do you mean "NO"?

No the rules aren't generally there for nearly all the system? No my interpretation of the grappling rules? No, you're just being belligerent?

[Temperjoke]

Guys, quit dragging arguments from other threads into new threads.