magical darkness

[Daddison]

Do rules for uncanny dodge and evasion still apply if you are stuck in a globe of magical darkness?

[Geddy2112]

Yes, neither ability specifies anything about darkness.

However, just because uncanny dodge prevents the character from being flat footed or losing their dex bonus to invisible creatures, the darkness will effectively blind the character, negating their dex bonus to AC.

Likewise, if a character does not get a reflex save, then evasion does not come into play.

[Daddison]

Ok - so, let me lay down a scenario...

Drow (group of 6 / ECL 7) ambush a group of PCs (group of 5 / ECL 6). Two of the drow immediately hit the party with darkness. The other 4 cast chain lightning into the magical darkness at the party.

The party is comprised of 1 monk, 1 duskblade, 1 rogue/cleric, 1 ranger, and 1 barbarian.

What would be the technical mechanics for damage (or to hit for that matter) for this scenario? Would it auto hit, since they are blinded/flat-footed and unable to evade the damage?

Would cone of cold work better for this since it is an area effect? Would concealment be an issue here?

[Psyren]

Given that Uncanny Dodge even applies to attacks you can't see, I don't see why it wouldn't work in pitch darkness either. The whole point of the ability is that you can react to things your senses aren't detecting. Whether you can't see it because it's invisible or you can't see it because it's dark shouldn't matter.

[Geddy2112]

Since the drow have darkvision, they can see their targets and cast their spells normally. Chain lightning does not roll to hit, therefore they just cast it and it goes off.

RAW, the party gets saves against the chain lighting, even if they can't see it. Darkness even has an FAQ that says it supresses nonmagical light, but not magical light. Chain lightning is magical light and the characters would see it. Even if they could not see it, the party would get saves so long as they are not otherwise unable to make a reflex save. If a party member with evasion saves, they take no damage.

If the drow used a spell that hit touch AC, characters who are surprised are flat footed unless they have uncanny dodge. Characters unable to see in the darkness are blinded and lose their dex bonus to AC(effectively flat footed).

[RoyVG]

There is a difference between regular darkness, and the Darkness spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm), because the latter causes Shadowy Illumination and those have different effects.


In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. A creature can’t hide in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover.

In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.

In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a -2 penalty to AC, moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and most Strength and Dexterity-based skill checks.


Darkness (as in the Spell) looks like an area where there is not as much light, it's simply darker, it's not a sphere of absolute black.

[Khedrac]

Also remember that in 3.5D&D darkness is not "pitch darkness", it is merely "shadowy illumination" (thus many claim it will raise the light levels in a pitch-dark" area).
This means it grants concealment (20% miss chance) not total concealment (50% miss chance).

Concealment is only relevant for effects requiring an attack roll - so chain lightning would not be affected even if the drow had a miss chance (as noted the drow's darkvision is not affected by the darkness so they do not have a miss chance.

The characters are not blinded, they can see their attackers who therefore gain no special benefit on attacks (but the drow do gain the benefit of a miss chance against the party's attacks).
Whether the party are flat-footed or not has no effect on saving throws or evasion.
Uncanny Dodge simply allows the characters who are flat footed to retain their dexterity bonus to AC.

If you rule that the party is in total darkness due to the suppression of their light sources then the rules for being unable to see do apply (bonus to attack rolls against them, flat footed {though uncanny dodge still applies}, half movement speed etc.) but there is no effect on saving throws.
Note an unconscious character still gets a reflex saving throw against AoE effects.

[MisterKaws]

Since the drow have darkvision, they can see their targets and cast their spells normally. Chain lightning does not roll to hit, therefore they just cast it and it goes off.

RAW, the party gets saves against the chain lighting, even if they can't see it. Darkness even has an FAQ that says it supresses nonmagical light, but not magical light. Chain lightning is magical light and the characters would see it. Even if they could not see it, the party would get saves so long as they are not otherwise unable to make a reflex save. If a party member with evasion saves, they take no damage.

If the drow used a spell that hit touch AC, characters who are surprised are flat footed unless they have uncanny dodge. Characters unable to see in the darkness are blinded and lose their dex bonus to AC(effectively flat footed).

Drow can't see through magical darkness, only some fiends, invocation users, and unorthodox casters can.

In addition, both Reflex saves and Uncanny Dodge work against invisible enemies just fine, and enemies concealed by magical darkness are simply treated as invisible.

[Daddison]

So, would there even be a benefit for the Drow to cast darkness as a precursor to blasting the party with lightning or cone of cold?

[Psyren]

Drow can't see through magical darkness, only some fiends, invocation users, and unorthodox casters can.

This is true but as an FYI, there's a feat in Drow of the Underdark that gives them this ability.

[Khedrac]

Drow can't see through magical darkness, only some fiends, invocation users, and unorthodox casters can.Point - I thought that was the case but I was in a hurry and could not find that rule with a quick glance at the SRD - mea culpea (thanks for the correction).


So, would there even be a benefit for the Drow to cast darkness as a precursor to blasting the party with lightning or cone of cold?
Well at worst the party now have 20% miss chance with aimed attacks which might be to their benefit.
If you are ruling that since it suppresses non-magical light sources so the party is in total darkness then probably yes - they are flat footed against all attacks.
Otherwise not really, 3E darkness was a big nerf from previous versions.
The main benefit is if one of the drow does not have anything better to do in the surprise round it is a debuff for a mundane heavy party.

[Daddison]

So, then, if the drow are on a surface raid, in dense woods, with no moon and they use this against a party to suppress their campfire, lanterns, and torches, etc., the party would be flat-footed?

This would still have no effect on uncanny dodge and evasion and the party could use it, correct?

One of the party has low-light vision.

[Gruftzwerg]

the usage of darkness for drows changed over the d&d editions.

In 3.5 darkness used by drows is mostly to compensate their light sensitivity. the mischances apply to ally and foes alike.

[Troacctid]

The miss chance only applies against creatures within the area of Darkness, since lighting-based concealment is adjudicated based on the target's square, per the Rules Compendium update on light and darkness. Anyone inside the area can see out of it just fine. So the Drow would most likely cast the Darkness around themselves as a defensive measure. Because it has such a long duration and moves with them, they would probably do so long before the fight begins.

Remember that in 3.5, Darkness creates an area of shadowy illumination, which is equivalent to candlelight or moonlight. "Darkness" is a bit of a misnomer.