Simple Dual Wielder fix

[X3r4ph]

As part of the Dual Wielder feat I would add: you can make an additional attack with your off-hand weapon, but you forego your reaction for that round.

Thoughts?

[PoeticDwarf]

As part of the Dual Wielder feat I would add: you can make an additional attack with your off-hand weapon, but you forego your reaction for that round.

Thoughts?

So a HUGE damage boost low level. (3d6+9 vs 2d6+3 reroll 1/2 greatsword) and on higher levels it's cool. Hmmm, this is too simple

[SetArk]

On my group, we usually just give add a +1 on Dex, and the feat feels moar balanced.

[Rysto]

Too powerful on a high-level paladin, I would think. Getting Improved Divine Smite 4 times per round is amazing on its own, and then the paladin could spend 4 spell slots in a round to really bring the pain.

[Waazraath]

I don't think it needs to be fixed in most instances; only something like fighter 11+. For rogues, paladins and rangers, I think 2wf is often competative as it is. With this fix, it gets too good for most other users imo. Not that many classes have something good to do with their reaction.

[smcmike]

As part of the Dual Wielder feat I would add: you can make an additional attack with your off-hand weapon, but you forego your reaction for that round.

Thoughts?

Is this extra attack tied to the attack action, or the bonus attack action, or is just a free-floating use of a reaction as a (second) bonus action?

[coredump]

Way too powerful. A guaranteed Reaction attack every round? Too much.

[X3r4ph]

So a HUGE damage boost low level. (3d6+9 vs 2d6+3 reroll 1/2 greatsword) and on higher levels it's cool. Hmmm, this is too simple

You are right about the first 4 levels. An extra attack here is too powerful. Perhaps it should be tied up to you extra attack class feature? So, at 5th level you can begin to swing an extra time?

[X3r4ph]

Too powerful on a high-level paladin, I would think. Getting Improved Divine Smite 4 times per round is amazing on its own, and then the paladin could spend 4 spell slots in a round to really bring the pain.

From what I have gathered from this old thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-449285.html with this important math to back it up: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d-9xDdath8kX_v7Rpts9JFIJwIG3X0-dDUtfax14NT0/edit#gid=1301284741
Two-weapon Fighting falls short of Great Weapon Master with a margin that is about the same as an attack. So, while they on that thread suggests Rend, accumulated bonus damage (+3 per hit) or an extra off-hand attack at level 11. I offer an interesting trade (supposedly): Do you wanna give up your reaction? Which can be used for a lot of things.

Granted. At low levels you have very little to use you reaction for other that opportunity attacks.

[X3r4ph]

Is this extra attack tied to the attack action, or the bonus attack action, or is just a free-floating use of a reaction as a (second) bonus action?

I was thinking it was part of you bonus action. But, still a choice.

When you use your bonus action to make an off-hand attack, you can chose to expend your reaction for this round, to make another attack with your off-hand. You can not use your reaction for the rest of the round.

[X3r4ph]

I don't think it needs to be fixed in most instances; only something like fighter 11+. For rogues, paladins and rangers, I think 2wf is often competative as it is. With this fix, it gets too good for most other users imo. Not that many classes have something good to do with their reaction.

Rogues gives up their precious bonus action to make another potential hit. I don't think that is overly powerful. However, you are right about rangers and paladins. Hunters Mark and Improved Smite will tag on a few extra dices. But as I have mentioned earlier, if this math is right: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d-9xDdath8kX_v7Rpts9JFIJwIG3X0-dDUtfax14NT0/edit#gid=1301284741 giving Dual Wielders an extra attack only makes them compete with GWM.

[X3r4ph]

Way too powerful. A guaranteed Reaction attack every round? Too much.

I have come to the realization that at low levels it is terribly overpowered. Do you still feel this would be overpowered at higher levels? Here it will compete with Shield spells, Sentinel, etc?

[djreynolds]

We use two weapon rend and it is easy to install.

If you hit with both weapons, that's the catch, you get 3 the options.

You may rend for double your proficiency modifier for up +12 damage, most likely piercing.

You may kick off and freely disengage, nice for rogues. Could be OP for rogues.

You may shove or prone an opponent with an athletics check. For guys dueling versatile weapons with strength.

Players must have the duel wielder feat as the prerequisite.

It gives a damage option, dex and strength as well.

It works, not "THE WAY" but a simple fix.

[Rysto]

From what I have gathered from this old thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-449285.html with this important math to back it up: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d-9xDdath8kX_v7Rpts9JFIJwIG3X0-dDUtfax14NT0/edit#gid=1301284741
Two-weapon Fighting falls short of Great Weapon Master with a margin that is about the same as an attack.

Is that with or without a one level Fighter dip for the Two-Weapon Fighting style? If my math is correct, getting TWF on a paladin makes a big difference. By my math TWF is significantly better on a paladin than GWF after improved divine smite kicks in. When you bring feats into the picture it gets cloudier, but basically the paladin needs both advantage and a very good to-hit for GWM to catch up to Dual Wielder. Polearm Master is the runaway winner, of course.

[JackPhoenix]

Suck for a rogue if you want to use off-turn OA sneak attack.