Does free gates break the game?

[gogogome]

I know free wishes break the game, but what about free gates? This is assuming the gate won't be used for free wishes.

The player in question is utilizing malconvoker + greater planar binding to bind a 20hd titan, who has a 1/day gate as an SLA

This brings up an additional issue of a titan wiping out everything... but then again I've been allowing him to bind balors so...

[heavyfuel]

Yes. Very much so.

You can now call infinite amount of creatures through the gates (not that you couldn't before, but it was a bit trickier).

[Flickerdart]

Without DM intervention, free gate takes the game and snaps it over the knee, perhaps moreso than wish ever could. Consider that a titan's gate can fetch any creature with 40 or fewer HD, which puts Epic abilities under the player's control.

Ways to make it work:
It's possible to make free gate sort of balanced, even without houserules. You will, however, need to make rulings or changes to the setting:

All or most powerful beings are unique
In your world, there's no such thing as a solar. There is Gabriel the Solar, Rafael the Solar, Michael the Solar, etc. Each of them is a specific unique being that occupies a specific place within the multiverse's hierarchy. Not only can such a creature not be commanded by gate, but even plucking it out of its place in the world has an impact much larger than the encounter. The PC can still use gate to grab collections of weaker beings, but anything that has more than 17 HD (or is capable of casting 9th level spells/SLAs) is only available as unique creatures.

Restrict extended durations
A free 1/day gate isn't a huge deal unless you use the gate to call a minion for longer than a day. Canny players will attempt to accomplish this by ordering a summoned being to willingly accept a spell cast at it (which counts as immediate, free service) and then dominate or mindrape it. You should rule that the duration depends on the task you require of the creature, not merely the orders you give it. Someone gating in a solar with the intent to dominate it requires that the solar serve it for days, which is an open-ended task that requires substantial payment.

The caster isn't guaranteed a "fresh" creature
Free gate means free spells, SLAs, etc. However, because gate pulls in a real creature from somewhere, there's no guarantee that the creature still has those abilities available for that day. Chances are that whatever the PC calls will still be a powerhouse, but if he wants it to cast specific spells for him, he's going to need to make a long-term contract and wait 24 hours.

[Kelb_Panthera]

In your particular case, it's not too worrying unless your players commit to the 15 minute adventuring day. It's free but it's also only 1/day. That's one encounter out of 4-5 that's basically in the bag but what about the rest? If it's easy to adjust for it shouldn't be an enormous issue.

Add one extra encounter to their day if you think he'll make use of it at every opportunity and don't even worry about it if you think he'll only use it as a last resort. In the latter case you need to account for it on boss fights but you'd need to do that if he was level 17+ and could cast it directly. He's made it a little more available and bypassed the xp cost but it's not as dramatic a power up as the phrase "free gates" conjures to mind.

BTW, how has he gotten that titan to agree to service? Planar binding isn't absolutely free service unless you allow it as the DM.

[Pluto!]

Does the most powerful ability in a game badly broken by lesser abilities break the game if its only drawback is removed?

[gogogome]

BTW, how has he gotten that titan to agree to service? Planar binding isn't absolutely free service unless you allow it as the DM.

Malconvoker's lies + moment of prescience. I think it makes sense MoP allows a character to know exactly what to say to make the titan "free", like appealing to their love of battle, get him to really like the malconvoker, fool him into thinking something he absolutely despises might happen, appeal to his warrior code thingy (he bested the titan by luring him into a trap and the jolly titan decides to grant him one service as congratulations) etc. MoP is a divination spell that gives perfect information to win a check right? It's insight bonus, and according to the d20srd insight bonus is precognitive knowledge.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Malconvoker's lies + moment of prescience. I think it makes sense MoP allows a character to know exactly what to say to make the titan "free", like appealing to their love of battle, get him to really like the malconvoker, fool him into thinking something he absolutely despises might happen, appeal to his warrior code thingy (he bested the titan by luring him into a trap and the jolly titan decides to grant him one service as congratulations) etc. MoP is a divination spell that gives perfect information to win a check right? It's insight bonus, and according to the d20srd insight bonus is precognitive knowledge.

Insight is just insight (precognitive in this case but not usually) but, yeah, that makes a fair amount of sense. Don't know that I'd rule the same but I can see where you were coming from.

[gogogome]

Insight is just insight (precognitive in this case but not usually) but, yeah, that makes a fair amount of sense. Don't know that I'd rule the same but I can see where you were coming from.

How would you rule it? Player wants free titan bodyguard, he has high natural charisma and a ton of feats and equipment that boosts his charisma further, and he uses an 8th level divination spell to gain precognitive 6th sense to know exactly what to say, so unless the titan has an unflinching code of no free service I don't think there's anything I can do to make it not free.

I mean like if the service is something like kill his own mother, I don't think there is any wording that would make him comply, so I don't think MoP would work here, but if there is even a tiny bit of chance a titan would accompany a character for free, I think MoP would make that tiny chance happen.

[Quertus]

Restrict extended durations
A free 1/day gate isn't a huge deal unless you use the gate to call a minion for longer than a day. Canny players will attempt to accomplish this by ordering a summoned being to willingly accept a spell cast at it (which counts as immediate, free service) and then dominate or mindrape it. You should rule that the duration depends on the task you require of the creature, not merely the orders you give it. Someone gating in a solar with the intent to dominate it requires that the solar serve it for days, which is an open-ended task that requires substantial payment.

Player: here, let me cast some buffs on you. Don't resist.
Solar: OK. <holds action>
Player: <mind rape>
Solar: <uses +31 to spellcraft to identify mind rape, uses held action to wish for necklace of prayer beads effect to summon deity to deal with mortal>

[Kelb_Panthera]

How would you rule it? Player wants free titan bodyguard, he has high natural charisma and a ton of feats and equipment that boosts his charisma further, and he uses an 8th level divination spell to gain precognitive 6th sense to know exactly what to say, so unless the titan has an unflinching code of no free service I don't think there's anything I can do to make it not free.

Two things:

Titans are fiercely independent creatures. As chaotic subtype outsiders resistance to authority, especially authority they don't recognize as legitimate, is part of their very makeup. Some rude berk dragging them from whatever they'd otherwise be doing would be worth smiting on the spot if it weren't for the magic circle stopping them. Even the good ones would give a firm non-lethal swat for the presumption. That aside, making -service- seem reasonable will prove difficult even without trying to get it "for free." If your own goals coincide with its goals then it might go along with you but don't expect to be able to dictate its every action and certainly don't expect it to treat you like its master.

Moment of Prescience -does not- give you knowledge of the perfect thing to say. It can guarantee the success of the cha check when you make it but you have to put forward something reasonable in the first place and that's up to the DM/creature. That is, MoP allows you to say whatever it is you want perfectly, it doesn't give you the perfect thing to say.