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Tanuki Tales
2016-04-15, 09:42 PM
Out of morbid curiousity, let's build the following thought exercise:

A wizard must take on an example of Xefas' Teramach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286983-3-5-Base-Class-quot-I-want-to-live-inside-a-castle-built-of-your-agony!-quot)
Both are optimized, barring TO shenanigans or infinite combos/tricks.
Both have only normal WBL to work with.
Both have access to all splats and material associated with the scenarios listed below
Both must have levels exclusively in their class (so no multiclassing/prestige classes)
The fight takes place in a neutral, open air coliseum that has a raised platform in the center with three foot wide, solid stone columns supporting it, which can support a dozen people.
Both combatants get 3 hours to prepare for the fight and are only vaguely aware of what their opponent is, prior to expending resources to learn more. The Teramach knows the wizard is a "magic man" and the wizard knows the Teramach is a "visceral brawler".
Loss is by death or by being incapacitated.


Scenario A: 3.5 material only
Scenario B: Pathfinder material only
Scenario C: 3.PF material

Can a level 20 Teramach take on a level 20 Wizard? If not, what is the highest level at which the Teramach takes majority in a one on one scenario?

JNAProductions
2016-04-15, 09:49 PM
Wizard has Contingent (the fight starts) Celerity, uses his standard action to stick a Forcecage on the Tremarch. Then uses Enervation till he dies.

Bobby Baratheon
2016-04-16, 01:35 AM
Time stop would give the wizard an advantage as well. Especially with quicken spell.
Three rounds (average result of Timestop), and assuming he already has flight from an item or something.
1) Quickened greater invisibility, Freedom of Movement, flies into the air for his move action
2) Quickened Resilient Sphere (invisible spell), Summon Whatever (Summon Undead IV gives you allips, and casting a higher summon undead can get you a swarm of them.)
3) Quickened Solid Fog (centered on teramach), Mindblank

Wizard is now invisible, can't be detected by magical means, hovering somewhere above the ground, invulnerable to most everything, and can watch as incorporeal allips drain the teramach's wisdom. The teramach can't even really move to begin his turn, and there's nothing stopping the wizard from casting timestop again and just summoning a literal army to beat down the teramach. I'm not familiar with a teramach's abilities, but the wizard has so many advantages against beatsticks it's not even fair. This is just off the top of my head, too. There are certainly much more lethal combos.

What options does the Teramach have in this scenario?

Zanos
2016-04-16, 02:08 AM
Wizard has Contingent (the fight starts) Celerity, uses his standard action to stick a Forcecage on the Tremarch. Then uses Enervation till he dies.
A wizard can't cast enervation on a target in a forcecage, and a Teramach can literally walk through a Forcecage and destroy it. The wording of it's abilities are intentionally general enough to allow such things.


I still give this to the wizard, because while the Teramach is game(and continent) breakingly powerful at 20, it still lacks core abilities that are available via 9th level wizard spells. The wizard, namely, can learn about the Teramach via divinations unless he invests wealth on a mindblank item. The wizard also has the ability to travel between planes, teleport, and conjure minions. The wizard also has a vareity of ways to not die when he is killed. The teramach has one, but it's inconvenient and takes time. I suppose it's worth noting that the teramach has a mythos that makes thing it kills stay dead permanently, and yes even then. This is by design according to Xefas, he wasn't trying to make a barbarian that was as versatile as a wizard, as doing such a thing would likely require writing something similar to tome of battle with more ridiculous maneuvers.


Time stop would give the wizard an advantage as well. Especially with quicken spell.
Three rounds (average result of Timestop), and assuming he already has flight from an item or something.
1) Quickened greater invisibility, Freedom of Movement, flies into the air for his move action
2) Quickened Resilient Sphere (invisible spell), Summon Whatever (Summon Undead IV gives you allips, and casting a higher summon undead can get you a swarm of them.)
3) Quickened Solid Fog (centered on teramach), Mindblank

Wizard is now invisible, can't be detected by magical means, hovering somewhere above the ground, invulnerable to most everything, and can watch as incorporeal allips drain the teramach's wisdom. The teramach can't even really move to begin his turn, and there's nothing stopping the wizard from casting timestop again and just summoning a literal army to beat down the teramach. I'm not familiar with a teramach's abilities, but the wizard has so many advantages against beatsticks it's not even fair. This is just off the top of my head, too. There are certainly much more lethal combos.

What options does the Teramach have in this scenario?
High level teramachs are immune to mental ability score damage via one of their mental degeneration Mythos's, and can non magically sense creatures based on their hate for them(I am not kidding). The teramach walks through the resilent sphere, probably destroying it.

Zale
2016-04-16, 02:41 AM
I suppose it's worth noting that the teramach has a mythos that makes thing it kills stay dead permanently, and yes even then.



Creature who reconstitute themselves after death, such as Liches, Ghosts, and Gods, do not reconstitute themselves; they just die.

Creatures who cannot be killed, such as the Tarrasque, are killed anyway.

Creatures whose life force return to their home plane after death, to become one with its planar energies, such as most Outsiders, do not achieve cosmic one-ness; they just die.

Creatures who can survive past their normal threshold for death, such as by the effects of a Delay Death spell, do not survive past this threshold; they just die.

When you kill a Summoned creature, its real self dies.

When you kill a creature who is projected from somewhere else, such as by an Astral Projection spell, their real self dies.

When you kill a creature whose death is interrupted by an effect that does not require an action to perform, such as a Vampire's automatic gaseous form, or a contingent spell, that effect does not activate; they just die.

I'm sure you get the gist; killing things kills them. Extrapolate as necessary.

Teramaches are what a barbarian wishes they were in their wildest and most terrifying dreams.

To further clarify the level of power they possess: One of their abilties has a section that essentially begins, "Should you so happen to eat the sun.."

My money is still on the wizard, but the fight will level the entire stadium and a non-insubstantial amount of the surrounding landscape.

Proabably because the teramach might just throw the stadium at the wizard.