Feys

[theboss]

So i was wondering throught the templates and came across Unseelie Fey template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/unseeliefey.shtml) , I checked for LA +X - seen none.. Then i checked realiable resources in the internet - and again no evidence to LA at all (LA +0)... At that point, i started checked for the requirments of this template (maybe you need to be a fey to become an unseelie fey..) But no, Not even special requirment...


"Unseelie fey" is a template that can be added to any living creature type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature"). The creature's type becomes "fey." It uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.


Is that legit? i mean im currently level 15- so that means i'd have wings, DR 15/Cold Iron, Spells like ability and many other powerful stuff. ALL THAT FOR FREE!
What's your opinion on this matter? And how would you convince the DM to allow it? (Im having a feeling he wouldnt like this...)

[Gildedragon]

It is legit. But nuts.
It has two downsides that limit it.
It is an inherited template iirc
Rolling is needed for it.

As a DM I'd allow it with a few caveats:
No wings or unusable wings
No DR
As to the senses: rolling or cherry picking is okay
I'd put this version at LA+1
For LA 0
Ditch the special ability

[Malimar]

Unseelie Fey is a well-known OP template -- though very slightly less OP than one might think, because one is not intended to be able to cherry-pick from two of the lists, one is intended to roll, and one has only a 50% chance of usable wings.

Some will say the lack of listed LA means it's unsuitable for PCs, like any monster with no listed LA. Others will say it's a template, so the lack of listed LA means LA is unchanged, so +0. I think the latter is more in line with RAW, but I don't recall for sure.

[InvisibleBison]

Well, that template is 3.0 content, which is why it doesn't have a level adjustment (I think). It seems like maybe a LA+1 template to me, but I'm not an expert. There are two potential problems you'll have to deal with, though. First, the template makes you evil, which may or may not be a problem for you. The second is that this is an inherited template - you have to be born an unseelie fey, you can't become one later in life. If your DM is willing to work with you, that's not a problem - just concoct some sort of magical ritual to gain the template or something. But if your DM is leery of the template - which you seem to suggest he will be - this may be enough to persuade him against allowing it.

[Ortesk]

So i was wondering throught the templates and came across Unseelie Fey template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/unseeliefey.shtml) , I checked for LA +X - seen none.. Then i checked realiable resources in the internet - and again no evidence to LA at all (LA +0)... At that point, i started checked for the requirments of this template (maybe you need to be a fey to become an unseelie fey..) But no, Not even special requirment...


Is that legit? i mean im currently level 15- so that means i'd have wings, DR 15/Cold Iron, Spells like ability and many other powerful stuff. ALL THAT FOR FREE!
What's your opinion on this matter? And how would you convince the DM to allow it? (Im having a feeling he wouldnt like this...)

Yes it is level adj +0. Usually you are born that way, though I imagine you could wish it.

And it is one of the best templates in the game. But it has a drawback, all fey revile you. Unseelie would see you as a pathetic half breed, seelie would see you as a blight. They would actively hunt you for what you are.

And I honestly always allowed it, Some little abilities and in return, all fey want to kill you? Sounds fair to me. I mean at level 20, the leshay would start coming for you if I was the DM

[Bobby Baratheon]

If you get it, I would get winter's chill. It synergizes fantastically with point blank spellcasting. Impose your Cha modifier as penalty to saves against any living non-fey within five feet of you. That's. . . incredible for Charisma based casters. Phantasmal killer, for example, becomes much more effective if you're imposing your ridiculously jacked up charisma stat as a penalty to both the saves. Basically any melee touch spell becomes lethally hard to resist. Also, you can fly and get scaling DR. Some of the reasons why Unseelie Fey is my favorite template ever.

[Morcleon]

Unseelie Fey is a well-known OP template -- though very slightly less OP than one might think, because one is not intended to be able to cherry-pick from two of the lists, one is intended to roll, and one has only a 50% chance of usable wings.

Some will say the lack of listed LA means it's unsuitable for PCs, like any monster with no listed LA. Others will say it's a template, so the lack of listed LA means LA is unchanged, so +0. I think the latter is more in line with RAW, but I don't recall for sure.

You can select or roll for the wings as indicated by the text.

It's LA +0 because the example unseelie fey gnome has LA +0.


Well, that template is 3.0 content, which is why it doesn't have a level adjustment (I think). It seems like maybe a LA+1 template to me, but I'm not an expert. There are two potential problems you'll have to deal with, though. First, the template makes you evil, which may or may not be a problem for you. The second is that this is an inherited template - you have to be born an unseelie fey, you can't become one later in life. If your DM is willing to work with you, that's not a problem - just concoct some sort of magical ritual to gain the template or something. But if your DM is leery of the template - which you seem to suggest he will be - this may be enough to persuade him against allowing it.

Template makes you evil, but it doesn't mean you can't become non-evil. Also, the template doesn't specify whether its inherited or acquired.

[InvisibleBison]

Template makes you evil, but it doesn't mean you can't become non-evil. Also, the template doesn't specify whether its inherited or acquired.

It doesn't specify in the section on creating an unseelie fey, but the general description section says that an unseelie fey is the offspring of a fey and a non-fey. To me, that says "inherited template".

Also, did the distinction between inherited and applied templates exist in 3.0? I seem to recall that it did not, but I've never actually played 3.0, so I don't trust my memory on this issue.

[Troacctid]

It's an error. You'll notice that all of the other templates in that book also fail to list a level adjustment, and that all of the other sample creatures also have the same LA as the base creature.

This is because they were all originally written for 3.0 and were never fully updated to 3.5. Back in 3.0, LA just wasn't a thing, so templates and monsters didn't need to include it. At the time, templates like Half-Dragon and Half-Celestial didn't have LA either. That's 3.0 for you. Updating all that crap to 3.5 requires adding LA.

If your DM takes the stance that unlisted LA on a template means +0 LA, then I would recommend stacking on as many templates from that book as you can. Bodak is pretty absurd, and you can stack Ravenous on top of it as well.


It's LA +0 because the example unseelie fey gnome has LA +0.
Which of course is great if you're playing the example unseelie fey gnome, but you're probably not.