The Memory Ability: Int or Wis?

[Laydralae]

I'm building a druid that has a huge memory problem, spending a lot of time in the form of a large cat and forgetting she is a gnome druid, and I want her to have a lot of child like wisdom to her but really big memory problems. Now I feel that memory should fall within the domain of INT but I could understand why it would fall under WIS. What do you guys think?

[ff7hero]

I would say that Knowledge (which is, fluff wise, the things you've learned) being based off of Int supports the idea of Int as the memory stat.

[ericgrau]

Knowing stuff is int, bringing it to mind when you need it is Wis.

Low int, high wis: doesn't know the bridge isn't supported well enough, but could describe the position and thickness of the beams to you.
Low wis, high int: doesn't look down at bridge as he walks across it, but if you point it out to him he could tell you it's not well supported.

[ayvango]

Wis represents System I, and Int represents System II as in the Thinking, Fast and Slow book. And both of them affects memory utilization. I'd like to describe them with skill check metaphor: wisdom affects spot check inside memory and intelligence affects searching though you memory. Wisdom improves total length of sequence of associations towards specific theme, and Int allows to build structure and retrieve significant aspects.

[Vizzerdrix]

Int is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wis is knowing that it doesnt belong in a fruit salad.

I think I saw that saying here someplace.

[Jeff the Green]

Memory is closest to Intelligence.

Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons.
Learning and memory aren't quite the same thing, though. I'm really good at learning, but I can't remember names or dates to save my soul.

I actually think that forgetting you're a gnome because you spend so much time as an animal is low Charisma, if that's all you're forgetting. Charisma is force of personality and sense of self, so losing yourself could be thought of as low Charisma. 0 Charisma is described as being in a solipsistic revelry, incapable of distinguishing between self and not-self.

[Zanos]

Remembering something is probably intelligence. Wisdom isn't quite what people think it is. It's more general attentiveness and natural intuition(sort of a "gut feeling") than anything else.

[Laydralae]

She just doesn't forget who she is, she also forgets what she was doing and where she is going without people to remind her. I intend an often situation between her and the party would be:

"[Druid], we need your help with [thing]." "I wish I could help but I'm just a big cat." "No, you're not! You're a druid!" "...Oh yeah!" *shape shift into gnome form.*

I'd imagine her CHA wouldn't be that low, maybe. I don't know.

[Inevitability]

Even if some of this memory loss is best expressed by a low wisdom score, you should remember that D&D is about playing a character you like.

As a druid, you'll need wisdom. Low wisdom will mean you can do less to help the party, which will make the game less fun for everyone involved.

Just play a druid with low intelligence and handwave the wisdom-based parts of her memory loss.

[Tohsaka Rin]

I think you should just leave the roleplay issue as that, and not try to have the stats reflect it.

Because that's what roleplaying is there for.

Is your character an idiot? No? Then why low Int?

Is your character unobservant? No? Then why low Wis?

Is your character absent-minded in regards to their physical form? Yes? Then play them as that. Play them how you want them to be played, and don't force yourself to hamstring a character's stats when it isn't necessary.

[Kelvarius]

She just doesn't forget who she is, she also forgets what she was doing and where she is going without people to remind her. I intend an often situation between her and the party would be:



So in other words, she's kinda absent minded, which is an actual character trait in game that reduces your spot and listen checks. Both of them are Wisdom based skills. So Wisdom.

[Doc_Maynot]

Autohypnosis, which allows you to devote specific passages to memory is Wis based. Thus, my money is on wisdom.

[Esprit15]

Autohypnosis, which allows you to devote specific passages to memory is Wis based. Thus, my money is on wisdom.

Same, though really it should be a function of both.

[Gildedragon]

Both. But if you want to represent strong memory you pump that wis and AH skill
Now what it sounds like is like you have the absentminded trait (which is a penalty to spot and listen). I'd say that in that case don't drain your wis but leave it like a tertiary stat

[Red Fel]

Even if some of this memory loss is best expressed by a low wisdom score, you should remember that D&D is about playing a character you like.


I think you should just leave the roleplay issue as that, and not try to have the stats reflect it.

Because that's what roleplaying is there for.

Agreeing with these. Look, mechanical scores and abilities are there for things which impact gameplay, and therefore are numerically statted so they can be calculated when rolling for stuff.

Memory loss should only be mechanically statted where you're going to roll for it. If you have a system worked out with the DM in which he says, "Roll to see if you can remember that you have thumbs," fine, but otherwise, it's just a personality quirk. I don't have my players roll for shyness, or arrogance, or that tendency to twiddle one's thumbs when impatient; those are simply roleplayed quirks. Like this one.

You can have a character who is extremely bright but forgets mundane things. This is a classic nutty professor, and still has high Int. So clearly, Int is not the determining factor.

You can have a character who is extraordinarily perceptive, but still processes information oddly or absently. This is a character with high Wis, but still poor recollection. So clearly, Wis is not the determining factor.

Fact is, neither of these mechanical stats impacts your ability to roleplay a personality quirk. Not everything needs to have a number attached to it.

[PallentisLunam]

In my opinion all three of the mental stats blur together as far as what aspect of the mind they actually represent.

That's said what you're describing does strike me as low Wisdom but still, let your role playing be defined by the character you want to play rather than the stats you assign unless you're doing some random, minimalist, improv thing.

[SethoMarkus]

Actively remembering a fact you learned or actively recalling the memory of an experience are different than passively remembering information or experiences. Memory as a whole is much too complex to represent in the simple game mechanics of D&D's mental stats, and at best is a combination of all three stats.

I absolutely agree with the suggestion of keeping this purely roleplay and not attempting to reflect this quirk with stats. Remember, a high charisma score can reflect someone that is beautiful to look at but timid, or someone who is hideous but very persuasive, or a combination of both. Why can't the other stats work the same way? Wisdom can represent someone who is very attentive but doesn't their left foot from their right. Low intelligence can be a person with a very refined vocabulary but no technical knowledge or learned skills.

[Jowgen]

Stygian Ice from It's Cold Outside freezes the target's memories in the fluff and the crunch result is Wis damage.

As Wis is the quintessential awareness stat, this could be explained as it including awareness of one's own past, not just immediate surroundings and other people's intentions/trustworthiness/etc. E.g. Int might determine the maximum complexity of encoded memories, but its re-call falls under Wis.

A good example would be the Forgetful-Genius thrope. Or situations where a protagonist forgets his whole life story but still knows what things are, how to speak, how to perform tasks in their field of expertise, etc. It's the difference between Semantic Memory (facts, concepts), Episodic Memory (events, experiences) and Procedural Memory (tasks, skills).

[Laydralae]

Thank you for all your input. I have decided to use it as an abstract personality quirk disconnected from the numbers.