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CockroachTeaParty
2007-06-22, 07:45 PM
Hello everyone. When the summer comes to a close, and I find myself once more at school, I plan on running a new D&D campaign... but I have tired of my old homebrew world, and so I've started forming a new one, with several radical changes. I'd like to run my ideas by you, and feel free to suggest any of your own. Also, I'm interested to see if any balance issues, or other odd circumstances could arise that I may have missed.

I want this campaign to take place during a zombie apocalypse, where the characters are forced to survive in a world of horrific danger. Gathering supplies, looking for survivors, and fleeing hordes of zombies would be the bread and butter of the campaign.

Perhaps D&D is not the best system to make a campaign such as this, but I'm familiar with the system, and would like to try a zombie scenario with a medieval flavor. There would be no magic to speak of, essentially reducing the classes to Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, and similar classes, perhaps with the non-magical variants of classes such as Ranger. The zombies, whether viral or magical in nature, would spread the affliction through their attacks, forcing a fortitude save to fight off the infection. The DC of the save could get higher with each wound suffered, meaning that any PC foolish or unfortunate enough to fight would eventually become a zombie.

I'm considering allowing the players to make several characters, as the PC survival rate would not be high, especially in the absence of magical healing or equipment. I'm also considering allowing Psionics as the only form of 'magic' in the world. Seers could help locate safe havens and survivors, nomads could help with safe travel, kineticists could wipe out hordes of zombies during times of emergency, egoists could provide limited healing (risking transferring the zombie virus to themselves, perhaps), shapers would be useful when supplies run low, and Telepaths could even prove useful altering the minds of survivors.

The reason that magic does not exist could be any of the following ideas:
1. The world is like our own, and void of anything magical.
2. The world was once a High Fantasy realm brimming with magic, but all magic was purged/destroyed/corrupted during some fell ritual/war/gods dying/etc.
3. Psionics has emerged in the world, during the surviving races time of need out of necessity and the will to survive.

While the majority of the zombies would be human, I'm also pondering a Resident Evil angle, where animals, and even monsters could become the living dead. Fighting off a virulent dragon zombie could prove fun. Of course, bands of insane survivors, bandits, and other dangerous things would provide variety.

The zombies themselves would use a different template, one that I'm currently trying to make. Perhaps they have to grapple a character before they can bite them, which would be the attack that transfers the zombie virus. Perhaps I should get my grubby mits on the DMG II to look at the mob rules, or maybe just use swarm rules, to represent endless hordes of shambling zombies. Also, I'm thinking of giving the zombies damage reduction, but allowing critical hits to work on them, (if the brain is destroyed, so is the zombie, and so crits could represent getting 'headshots')

Overall, the campaign would be gritty, unpleasant, and bleak, much like the zombie movies and scenarios that my friends and I love so very much. Other considerations include Sanity rules variants. Truth be told, it may be easier to run it d20 Modern with guns and such, but in a medieval setting the characters would face the choice of using weaker ranged weapons in hopes of getting critical hits, or using more damaging melee weapons while risking infection up close.

As you can see, this campaign is mostly just a bunch of ideas at this point. What say you? Could it be fun? Would it get boring? If you could, don't suggest 'buy Heroes of Horror!' etc., as I'm well aware that other supplements could provide me with all manner of inspiration and advice. I'm more interested in any ideas YOU have. If you could spare me a slice of your collective imaginations, I would appreciate it greatly.

Lord_Kimboat
2007-06-22, 07:55 PM
I think it's not a bad idea - I'd suggest if you can get a copy of d20 Apocalypse, aside from some rules it has some really good ideas along these lines.

Second, you might want to give the PCs a overarching goal or else your campaign might degenerate into, "what are we fighting this time?" In your first couple of adventures give them a few clues for some hope. Rumours of a place where the zombies can't go or a gate to another world where things are good. Even a group of holy knights in an isolated area who continuously fight off the undead successfully.

This gives them a goal to work toward which gives them something other than unmitigated horror.

Jonesh
2007-06-22, 08:09 PM
Sounds nice, I'd play it.
Perhaps you could also incorporate some kind of damage reduction for armours or so, 'cuz you know, it's kind of tricky to gnaw through plate :smalltongue:
It seems like you want a bleak game, but otherwise I'd suggest the defense bonus/damage reduction combo. It might become more like zombe slaughter á la Dead Rising then tho' :P
Just my two cents :smallsmile:

CockroachTeaParty
2007-06-22, 08:27 PM
Both good points. I think the first major goal would be to find a place to fortify, such as an abandoned castle, or other defensible position. Perhaps the first 'dungeon' that they clear out could become their first stronghold.

As far as armor is concerned against the undead, against an individual or small group it would be useful, but when surrounded, a swarm's damage would represent countless zombies ripping, tearing, and biting the joints of the armor. Plus, the speed reduction of heavy armors would need to be weighed before going into combat in full plate.

BarroomBard
2007-06-22, 09:00 PM
You might want to consider doing a fantasy campaign using the d20 modern rules, as they are designed with no magic in mind. Also, because the classes in modern aren't really "classes" but some kind of archetypes it would add to the "we're just normal peasants being chased by shambling death" feel.

Also, you might consider adding inquisitors, roving bands of soldiers, and other non-zombie foes.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-06-22, 09:08 PM
Another good point. Of course, I would also like the PCs to have the choice of being former knights, thieves, etc.

There would be no functioning economy to speak of, meaning the 'treasure' would consist of food, tools, and weaponry. I want to drive hard the survival aspect, keeping track of food, carrying capacity, and perhaps even devise sleep rules, to represent the physical toll of living in such a world would take on the characters.

Ditto
2007-06-22, 09:27 PM
D&D is a combat system, so it's really not the best suited to survival-avoidance gaming. An adapted d20 Modern is your best bet. You can write in the background flavor as you like without needing to throw class levels in. I would use basically anything *other* than D&D for a survival game. Same situation with M&M, really. It's meant for blowing spoon up.

bairen
2007-06-22, 09:32 PM
You have no idea how unhappy I am that I won't be around for this. Exactly the kind of game I've been wanting to play. I've been thinking a bit about this sort stuff lately, so talk to me if you want.

herrhauptmann
2007-06-22, 09:55 PM
This is more like the 2nd ed lycanthropy rules, but each time you're bitten, there's a cumulative percentage chance that you change...
Every bite requires a new percentage roll, starting at 5%, and incrementing by 5 for each bite. Maybe, to prevent people from automaticaly becoming zombies by 10th level, have the percentage chance reduce by 1 or 2 every month without a bite.
So 4 bites (20%), will take almost 2 years to reset your counter. However, I think this is a mechanic you should keep secret from the players. Let them keep guessing about what the criteria is. It's what my Ravenloft DM did with lycanthropy. Thus, my character didn't realize he was infected for a year of game time. (He didn't change at the full moon) The downside of this, it makes even more paperwork for you the DM. This also evens the playing field for different characters. No longer is the barbarian almost guaranteed to never change, while the thief is.
Should a critical bite give a greater percentage, owing to the greater amount of toxins introduced to teh body?
Man, another idea, the percentage rises by the amount of damage dealt. IE: A bite for 2 points raises the percentage by 2. A bite for 9 raises it by 9, etc.

Plus, what's the process for actual change? Do the players fail their percentage, fall dead, then next round stand back up?
Do they fall ill after failing? Say, losing int, wis or cha by an amount every day. Roll to decide which is lost each day. They don't die until a stat hits 0. Then they get up as a zombie. Maybe their zombie stats change depending on which stat hits 0 first.
Do people who die due to damage inflicted automatically become zombies? Maybe these ones should be lesser zombies. While the previous ones are greaters?

Neon Knight
2007-06-22, 11:28 PM
Do you have Libris Mortis? It is undead related, so it could perhaps aid you.

The Ominous One
2007-06-23, 12:12 AM
[End perma-lurker mode]
I must thank you guys. This thread has given me a great idea for my Shadowrun campaign. I'm going to strand my players on a corporately owned island that has recently had a major ghoul outbreak. I don't know whether or not i'll implement the infection mechanic, but this thread has been a huge inspiration.

Neon Knight
2007-06-23, 10:30 AM
Lurking idea thief! Quick! Get Lu Bu to Shu Yu!!!

...

I mean, sue you. Yes, we will get Lu Bu to sue you.

JellyPooga
2007-06-23, 10:37 AM
Yay! Zombies rule! It's nice to know that there are others who want to pit themselves (or their players) against the shambling hordes.

Having said that, although I am in complete support of you trying to do a zombie survival game in d20 on the basis of the fact that it's a system you know, I would strongly reccomend you use a different one.

You even say it yourself that d20 is perhaps not the best system to run zombie survival, so I probably don't have to tell you that d20 is geared towards hacking your way though multiple combats every day with little consideration for other factors. Although you can implement rules for those 'other factors' into the d20 system they will be little more than houserules and as such, they will be largely untested (for the most part). I don't want to comment on your houseruling ability, but my experience is that they rarely have no flaws and require playtesting to perfect.

To that end, the most logical option (IMO) is to bypass all the playtesting that is inherent in making your own rules and use someone elses experience...i.e. use a different gaming system.

My reccomendation is to use GURPS first and foremost. Two reasons: 1)you only need to buy two books to get going if you don't own the rules already. That's all you'll ever need to run any game using GURPS. 2)GURPS has a tendency towards very gritty combat and better focus on non-combat situations than d20 does. It also has solid rules for fear/psychology. These factors are ideal for a Zombie Survival game (I'm in the process of planning a ZS game in GURPS myself).

My second reccomendation is to look into All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It's an RP-system based solely on Zombie Survival. If I had the money I would buy every book they own, but I don't even have enough for the core rules. However, I've seen the basic ruleset and they look as if they have taken just about every zombie film and made a game that can reproduce the atmosphere, action and everything else that is in those films. Aside from the core book, the supplements provide rules and information for running particular settings...for example, one of them provides rules for Zombie Survival in the Old West and another rules for Zombie Wrestling (with the absolutely quality title of "Zombie Smackdown" :smallbiggrin: ).

However, if you're dead-set on doing this in d20, I can only give you the following advice (much of which you have probably already thought of).

1)Throw out the existing Zombie template and make your own. Depending on what sort of Zombies you want, include high DR, high Strength, very low Dex (and speed) and a Bite attack (with Disease - very difficult save to resist, incubation period of 1d6 days, damage 1d3 Str, Dex and Con, if you die from it, you rise as a zombie 1d3 rounds later...or something like that). You might also want to consider a rule that forces them to use their (very low) Dex mod instead of their Str mod for making and resisting Bull Rush and Overrun attempts (Zombies are notoriously easy to push around and are only any good at it themselves in large numbers).

2)Limit character level and XP so that the PC's are never a particularly high level (I would reccomend level 3 as a maximum starting level and 6 or 7 as a maximum for the campaign). High level d20 characters are not suitable for playing in a Zombie Survival game...they're just too good at killing stuff, which takes the horror out of it (unless you decide to go all Resident Evil and have super-zombies of course...then you have the "What the **** is that!" element)

3)Unless you can find some good rules for Fear/Horror in d20 (I haven't), don't try to make any. Just RP it. If your players don't want to co-operate in this respect (by having fearless characters, for example), first explain what the game is about. If that doesn't work, don't let them play...Zombie Survival games are all about atmosphere and horror...hack-and-slashers have no place in this genre.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough I think, so I'll leave it there.

Flakey
2007-06-23, 11:07 AM
If you still end up using D&D another point, no clerics or bards. One of the main points on ZS is the fear of running out of things, especially your health. They should even be avoiding encounters with rats etc, which is hard to bring about if they can just go "Finished that fight right cleric x hit us back up to max health.".

bosssmiley
2007-06-23, 11:18 AM
My second reccomendation is to look into All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It's an RP-system based solely on Zombie Survival. If I had the money I would buy every book they own, but I don't even have enough for the core rules. However, I've seen the basic ruleset and they look as if they have taken just about every zombie film and made a game that can reproduce the atmosphere, action and everything else that is in those films.

Have it, love it, heartily recommend it.

D&D models heroic fantasy well, survival horror...not so. Spring for AFMBE, chortle at the presentation and layout, then have a few shambling, brain-eating, change-of-pace-from-D&D one-off games. :smallcool:

Forevergrey
2007-06-23, 11:28 AM
Even a group of holy knights in an isolated area who continuously fight off the undead successfully.


"You must find us! Salvation is here! The answer to infection is here!"

Fax Celestis
2007-06-23, 11:34 AM
You might want to take a look at a little game called All Flesh Must Be Eaten.

D'oh. Perhaps I should read the thread before posting, eh? :smallbiggrin:

delguidance
2007-06-23, 12:22 PM
Libris Mortis has templates to put onto the usual zombies.

Fast zombie,
Disease spreading zombie
Hard to kill zombie
Others I forget

Put them all together and a zombie becomes a CR3 or 4, way more than most humans can deal with.

I suggest getting this book, and keeping a little divine magic. The degree of hope is a heavy factor in any zombie flick.

kkortekaas
2007-06-23, 08:12 PM
One of my players has just commenced laying plans for a Zombie Apoc game set in Niagara Falls...should be a good time, we're going to use the Modern system....got myself a tough hero all worked out.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-23, 09:47 PM
There need to be a few ways around the d20 heroic fantasy combat problem. You know, where the characters hit a level where they no longer are in danger of being killed by hordes of the undead (great cleave + fullplate + spiked chain anyone?). While leveling up a lot is useful for skills, all the HP is ridiculous.

Making infection almost guaranteed (fort DC 30, on a bite) would make the players hesitate to engage mobs of zombies.

I would do a few things:

Add DR to armor, that stacks with other types of DR.

HP= constitution score at level 1. Each subsequent level, they gain HP equal to their con mod.

Get rid of the critical success/critical failure rules. This adds a really lame amount of "luck kills you" in what should be a "zombies will kill" game, since the characters are going to be frail.

Critical hits: They function on zombies, but zombies are still immune to being staggered, bleeding etc. On a confirmed critical with a natural 20 (or maybe on any critical- depends how lethal you want it to be), roll a 1d6.
1= left arm
2= right arm
3= left leg
4 = right leg
5= torso
6= head

That part of the body is what's damaged on the critical, and effectively becomes useless. Losing a leg means you go slower, losing an arm means penalties on skills (like climb, swim) as well as using a weapon with that hand, a hit to the torso means you're bleeding every round, a hit in the head means your dead (or blind, or knocked out). This is also balanced out by the fact that a couple zombies can easily grapple a lone character, pin her, and chew an infectious hole in her skull.

Personally, I would make it so ANY successful critical leads to that sort of damage. Since zombies are only criticalling on 20s, it's not going to destroy your players, but your players will definitely enjoy turning hordes of the undead to legless torsos. The only downside is that it requires more book keeping on your part.

This puts back in a lot of lethality that has been pulled out.

Human zombies- Get rid of the slam attacks. Instead, they make grapples with their unarmed strikes. These will provoke AoO. Once grappled, they automatically rend or constrict (whichever; flip a coin if you like). Have them use their natural bite attack in the grapple- either as automatic damage on a pinned foe, or as a simple attack.

Using those rules, I think you could model a zombie horde a little better.

Dean Fellithor
2007-06-23, 09:52 PM
Sounds nice, I'd play it.
Perhaps you could also incorporate some kind of damage reduction for armours or so, 'cuz you know, it's kind of tricky to gnaw through plate :smalltongue:
It seems like you want a bleak game, but otherwise I'd suggest the defense bonus/damage reduction combo. It might become more like zombe slaughter á la Dead Rising then tho' :P
Just my two cents :smallsmile:

The Zombies could simply pull at your armor, although they are stupid, they are not that stupid as to not pull your armor off. also Zombies are attracted to sound, so you'd probably be wearing something lighter than Plate.:smalltongue: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-23, 10:04 PM
The Zombies could simply pull at your armor, although they are stupid, they are not that stupid as to not pull your armor off. also Zombies are attracted to sound, so you'd probably be wearing something lighter than Plate.:smalltongue: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

I imagine keeping track of how much damage your armor has taken would be very important, as would Craft: mend things that zombies maul.

Keeping track of food, water (clean?), how much is being carried could also really add to the sruvival aspects, as well as good sleeping conditions, sleep dep, being fatigued, how fast you can move across terrain.

What you can carry, I've always thought, would be a function of both strength and constitution. Rather than make the formula more complicated, just halve a character's carrying capacity. A ten str character's light load becomes 16 pounds.

The idea that the average anyone is totally unencumbered when carrying 33 pounds is a bit absurd. At 150 lbs, that's 1/5th of your weight. Has anyone ever tried doing anything with 33 lbs on their back? For fast cross country hiking, 30-40 pounds is at the upper limit of what you want to carry, and it all has to be shoved in a pack.

This would help limit how much the characters carry- are you going to be running around in armor, or carry food? Can you carry those important tools, or would you rather ditch them so you can run faster?

Perhaps; add another class of encumberance. Maybe give a generic suite of bonuses that you only get to keep if you're carrying half your light load.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-06-24, 11:29 AM
Those are all good suggestions. I think that the zombies using grapple attacks would be the way to go. Multiple zombies can enter a single grapple, meaning that the more zombies there are, the harder its going to be to escape once they have you in their clutches.

It appears I've made a decent decision by doing away with any of the casting classes, and they will all start at level 1, to keep the PCs frail. Has anyone given any thought to my psionics idea? Psions aren't nearly as effective when it comes to healing, but they could still provide that 'glimmer of hope' mentioned before.

Alas, I think I'm going to resort to D&D, for I am lacking in additional funds at the moment, and I'm not a fan of downloading books I haven't spent money on. I think that if I really push the encumbrance and fatigue aspects home, it should help keep the focus on survival.

As for the zombies themselves, I believe I'll implement the low DEX, easy to push over mechanic, giving them bonuses to getting pushed around depending on how many of them are bunched together. I'm thinking that unless the PCs are surprised somehow, the zombies would always act last in the initiative order. The disease they spread would function in such a way that once infected, the character's ability scores slowly drain away. Once their CON reaches zero, they will rise as zombies within 4d6 hours. Once infected, the characters will have to choose whether to leave someone behind, mercy kill them, or have the character fight on until the bitter end. Bodies will have to be disposed of, either by decapitation or by incineration.

I think I'll have the campaign start right at the end of the first initial wave of hysteria that sweeps across society. Little will be known about the zombie menace initially, so the PCs will have to learn their weaknesses, as well as how exactly the disease functions.

All good advice folks. I think I should be able to make this work.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-24, 12:59 PM
Limit turn undead abilities. Also there should be 2 major religions trying to rebuild the World around their beliefs.

Give all classes with 3/4 or full BAB imporvised weapon proficiency and eschew materials to spellcasters.

Make it start near the begining of the zombie invasion otherwise players will say "we should already have good weapons since we would have prepared already".

Dissallow Necromancy or limit it.

Money is now useless obviously so give PC's material prizes which they should be allowed to swap for other things like armour.

Craft check DCs should be increased by 4 due to lack of materials.

Ban rope trick and Mordekainens Maginificent Mansion and Leomunds Secure Shelter plus Wall of... spells for obvious reasons since they make it so much easier to make safe havens. Detect Dead should also be banned or limited.

Make the PC's enter a graveyard at some point.

Make the zombies reanimate unless burnt or cracked round the head. Make all critical hits count as head shots etc but not sneak attack (though they should be vulnerable to). Also reduce their movement to 15ft or allow the zombies to run depending if you want Resi Zombies or 28 Days Later zombies.

Anyone bitten must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 zombies HD + Str Modifier) or they become a zombie within 1 day. Antitoxin should affect the save. However make an antidote that the players can find but only occasionally.

Zombie Trolls ala Resi 4 are a must.

Food should be hard to find and most animals inclding fish should be infected (or there is a high risk of it being infected).

Iron_Mouse
2007-06-24, 02:52 PM
With all those zombies, don't forget the true monsters of a zombie apocalypse: the humans. Especially in the classic zombie movies, the worst enemies usually aren't the zombies, but the living.

Like...
- Survivors who behave totally irrational because of the stress and the horror. Maybe they want only to save themselves no matter what the cost, are extremely paranoid about everyone (including the PCs, of course) or just become slowly insane.
- Parts of the army/city guard/vigilantes/whatever, who are still trying to get the situation under control, and have started to use harsh and brutal methods, killing zombies and survivors alike (they could be infected, after all).
- Bands of plunderers. Armed, used to get what they want, violent, and (after surviving several fights against the undead) probably very dangerous opponents.
- Maniacs who think that they have to "help" the zombies (by opening doors/gates/barricades etc.).
- Insane religious fanatics who preach that "the end has come" and such, and demoralize the people in the few safe havens. Or try to rally them, to lead them into a "promised land" (=into their doom). Something like that.

Tor the Fallen
2007-06-24, 04:00 PM
I think getting rid of spellcasters is a very good idea. Psionics... I'm not sure. Some of that stuff is very powerful, on the level of being a caster. Personally, I would go through and heavily modify available powers, or make them PrCs you have to take Wild Talent to get. I'd also have Wild Talent grant a handful of pyschic powers; 1 per level like a domain does.

I'd do this because magic and psionics grows exponentially in power. A fireball spell at level 5 would turn every mob of zombies into charred flesh. Unless you want to give all your zombies a half dozen hit dice, powers like Swarm of Crystals and Energy Burst are going to cause the same problem.

You could also make the adept NPC class an available class. A handful of useful spells, but nothing that's going to break your game.

The suggestion to make humans the true monsters would definitely add to the hopelessness of it all. It would also give you a chance to mix up what they have to fight, and perhaps provide a challenge when (if) they ever make it to the higher levels, when the zombies aren't such a big threat. Though, in many zombie films, even if the protagonists have successfuly fortified themselves and are 'living the good life', someone always gets bit, through carelessness, stupidity, or a zombie in a really weird place.

Having the disease affect animals could also help out when a zombie's CR is too far below the party average. Packs of ravenous, rotting dogs. Undead ravens. Lickers and Hunters. Giant spiders.

Expansion of the role of alchemy would be good, as it could provide a source of healing, damage, subterfuge, light, defense, and so forth. An alchemicl substance that makes you greasy when rubbed on armor, for instance, would be good to get out of the zombies' clutches.

Valamere
2007-06-24, 05:24 PM
This is cool. I've been wanting to make something like this for awhile but more of a modern time period. Some pretty good ideas

Matthew
2007-06-26, 11:22 PM
Have it, love it, heartily recommend it.

D&D models heroic fantasy well, survival horror...not so. Spring for AFMBE, chortle at the presentation and layout, then have a few shambling, brain-eating, change-of-pace-from-D&D one-off games. :smallcool:
This is true and the system is well recommended... however, D&D/D20 is *very* adaptable, so I don't think it would take an awful lot of work to fit a system you know to the genre you love. On the other hand, you can spend more time developing the campaign if you don't have to worry about the rules.