Is there a way to make shadow creatures created by shades permanent?

[magicalmagicman]

Or last at least hours. Shadow creatures are so cool even though they are inferior to summoned creatures in every way, so i want an entourage of them.

Is arcane thesis:shades + extend spell the only way? Because that doesn't even come close to what I want XD

[Venger]

Just use the halaster's fetch line, that creates permanent summons. they are commanded as summon monsters for the duration as normal, then after become uncontrolled, and you can boss them around in some other way (charm, dominate, bribe, etc)

[magicalmagicman]

Just use the halaster's fetch line, that creates permanent summons. they are commanded as summon monsters for the duration as normal, then after become uncontrolled, and you can boss them around in some other way (charm, dominate, bribe, etc)

Unfortunately shades doesn't allow conjuration(calling) spells. I know you can argue about that one sentence in RAW, but my DM is ruling it like shadow conjuration.

[Gruftzwerg]

a)
Go Shadowcraft Mage PRC and mimic "Shades" with "Shadow Illusions"(ability).
this lets you use silent image, minor image, major image, persistent image, and programmed image as conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation), or evocation spell of at least one level lower than the illusion spell.
most of the illusion spells have a duration of "concentration+", so you could keep it up for a long time, as long as it doesn't leave the range of the initial illusion spell cast. There are optimized builds out there where you can use Silent Image on all spell slots to mimic any spell lvl you are able to cast. Just look up forum/google for the Prc.

b)
Epic Warlock feat: Shadowmaster [Epic]
lets the warlock use at will (as invocation) "Shades", Displacement and gives immunity to shadow subtype spells/effects. still not permanent, but you can keep it up permanent.

[InvisibleBison]

Unfortunately shades doesn't allow conjuration(calling) spells. I know you can argue about that one sentence in RAW, but my DM is ruling it like shadow conjuration.

You should call your DM's attention to greater shadow conjuration. The difference between greater shadow conjuration and shades seems to say that shades can imitate conjuration spells of any school.

[Janthkin]

a)
Go Shadowcraft Mage PRC and mimic "Shades" with "Shadow Illusions"(ability).
this lets you use silent image, minor image, major image, persistent image, and programmed image as conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation), or evocation spell of at least one level lower than the illusion spell.
most of the illusion spells have a duration of "concentration+", so you could keep it up for a long time, as long as it doesn't leave the range of the initial illusion spell cast. There are optimized builds out there where you can use Silent Image on all spell slots to mimic any spell lvl you are able to cast. Just look up forum/google for the Prc.While the PRC is great in its own right, you are misreading "Shadow Illusion" - it copies the duration of the spell being duplicated, so you don't use, e.g., Silent Images' "Concentration" as the duration.

For the OP - nothing prevents you from using the usual Extend & Persist metamagics with Shades, but you're going to need some Persist shenanigans to make it work.

[magicalmagicman]

You should call your DM's attention to greater shadow conjuration. The difference between greater shadow conjuration and shades seems to say that shades can imitate conjuration spells of any school.

Yeah, thats the one line of RAW this controversy stems from, and my DM ruled it to be like shadow conjuration, as in creation and summon only.


For the OP - nothing prevents you from using the usual Extend & Persist metamagics with Shades, but you're going to need some Persist shenanigans to make it work.

Persist only works on fixed range spells that are not touch. Summon Monster is not fixed range.

[Gruftzwerg]

While the PRC is great in its own right, you are misreading "Shadow Illusion" - it copies the duration of the spell being duplicated, so you don't use, e.g., Silent Images' "Concentration" as the duration.


I might be reading it wrong, but I think that you don't need to cast a new Illusion spell to be able to use Shadow Illusion. You just need one of the mentioned illusions active and alter them than. There is nothing in the text, that it would consumes the illusion spell as whole. It just alters (adds to) the illusion. In fact I don't see even restrictions for summoning a creature once a round from just one illusion (that is ongoing). Or using "shadow evocations" while your "shadow summon monster X" is already fighting.
As said I might read it wrong (english is my 3rd language..^^) but that is what I interpret in the text.

[Janthkin]

I might be reading it wrong, but I think that you don't need to cast a new Illusion spell to be able to use Shadow Illusion. You just need one of the mentioned illusions active and alter them than. There is nothing in the text, that it would consumes the illusion spell as whole. It just alters (adds to) the illusion. In fact I don't see even restrictions for summoning a creature once a round from just one illusion (that is ongoing). Or using "shadow evocations" while your "shadow summon monster X" is already fighting.
As said I might read it wrong (english is my 3rd language..^^) but that is what I interpret in the text.There's this bit:

The altered spell functions identically to
the shadow conjuration or shadow evocation spell, except that the
spell’s strength equals 10% per level of the figment spell used.
that certainly seems to suggest a "Shadow Illusion" spell is a self-contained thing, rather than a modification to an already-cast spell. (And given how many of the spells you are duplicating either have existing (long) durations, or are instantaneous effects, this tends to be preferable anyway.)


Persist only works on fixed range spells that are not touch. Summon Monster is not fixed range.Ooops, point. Well, let see: Extend Spell still works. Shadowcraft Mage 4's "Extend Illusion" works, and explicitly multiplies with Extend Spell. That gets us to x4, which is sadly still a far cry from hours. Any other Extend-like effects out there, that aren't Extend Spell?