Arcane spell failure avoidance

[kraze_ivan]

I was wondering all the different ways that you could get around arcane spell failure: feats, classes, the works.

I only need avoidance for light armor (I was thinking of a rogue-type skill monkey with some level 1 arcane magic for extra batman and character flavor) who wants to run around in light armor and stab people and occasionally cast a support spell. Luckily True Strike has no somatic component (hooray!) but other spells are going to hit 15% to 20% failure until I can get my hands on a mithril chain shirt (10%). Because I will only have 1st level spells, Still Spell is pretty much out.

Suggestions? Or am I going to have to take off my armor every time I want to cast Open/Close on the trapped chest or cast Silent Image of myself running one direction while I run the other?

[Jack Mann]

Twilight mithral chain shirt has no spell failure, as I recall.

EDIT: Twilight mithral breastplate with a thistledown suit (RotW) likewise has no spell failure.

[Starsinger]

I only need avoidance for light armor (I was thinking of a rogue-type skill monkey with some level 1 arcane magic for extra batman and character flavor) who wants to run around in light armor and stab people and occasionally cast a support spell. Luckily True Strike has no somatic component (hooray!) but other spells are going to hit 15% to 20% failure until I can get my hands on a mithril chain shirt (10%). Because I will only have 1st level spells, Still Spell is pretty much out.

Up until you said True Strike, it sounded like bard...

[OzymandiasVolt]

You could take a level of Battle Sorceror. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer)

[Neon Knight]

There is also the Spellsword Class in Complete Warrior. 10 level PRC. Adds to your existing spellcasting class levels. Allows to ignore up to 30% of arcane spellfailure. Also gives you a couple of nifty abilites. Well, they're nifty in my opinion.

[Miles Invictus]

Except a 1st-level Battle Sorcerer only knows one spell.

Duskblades can cast in armor, but they don't have very many utility spells.

[brian c]

You could take a level of Battle Sorceror. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer)

That's what I was going to suggest. Anyway, there's also a feat in Complete Arcane called Battle Caster that lets you ignore ASF from one level heavier armor than you normally can. Battle Sorcerer + Battle Caster = Mithral Fullplate with no spell failure.


Except a 1st-level Battle Sorcerer only knows one spell.

Duskblades can cast in armor, but they don't have very many utility spells.

Um... Regular first level sorcerer knows 4/2 spells (4 0-level, 2 first level). Battle Sorcerer says you know one less spell per level, minimum 1. So a first level Battle Sorcerer only knows one first level spell, but he still knows 3 0-level also.

[Fax Celestis]

Feycraft mithral twilight breastplate also has ASF 0%.

[Jack Mann]

Um... Regular first level sorcerer knows 4/2 spells (4 0-level, 2 first level). Battle Sorcerer says you know one less spell per level, minimum 1. So a first level Battle Sorcerer only knows one first level spell, but he still knows 3 0-level also.

Correct. He only knows one spell that matters.

[Breaon]

Correct. He only knows one spell that matters.


I must protest. Prestidigitation is a FINE spell.

[Starsinger]

Likewise, at low levels Daze and Flare aren't that bad... And uhh.. mage hand has its uses.

[Jacob Orlove]

A level or two of Beguiler would give you a big pile of skill points, and (spontaneous!) access to 20+ 0th and 1st level spells. You get to cast them in light armor for free, although you don't get True Strike or Prestidigitation. You get a whole bunch of fine utility spells, though, especially for a "rogue-type skill monkey".

The other option, of course, is just being a Beguiler, but that may or may not be what you're looking for.

(The Beguiler base class can be found in the Player's Handbook II.)

[Iku Rex]

In addition to the ways already mentioned (mithral, twilight, fey/githcraft, thistledown, spellsword) there's also the blended quartz armor material (replaces metal) from the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide. It has -20% ASF, but the armor it's used for weighs twice as much as normal.

[Irreverent Fool]

That's what I was going to suggest. Anyway, there's also a feat in Complete Arcane called Battle Caster that lets you ignore ASF from one level heavier armor than you normally can. Battle Sorcerer + Battle Caster = Mithral Fullplate with no spell failure.



Um... Regular first level sorcerer knows 4/2 spells (4 0-level, 2 first level). Battle Sorcerer says you know one less spell per level, minimum 1. So a first level Battle Sorcerer only knows one first level spell, but he still knows 3 0-level also.

A single level of battle sorceror doesn't help you as (with most such classes) the benefit (in this case ignoring arcane spell failure from light armor) is only applicable to spells gained from levels of battle sorceror.

Regarding battle sorceror in general, I don't feel the loss of a single spell per level is a balancing factor for the 'Armored Mage' pseudofeat. Other classes with this ability -- namely beguiler and warcaster -- have specific spell lists that limit such ability. But that's my opinion and not related to the overall thread.

[Fizban]

Twilight mithral chain shirt has no spell failure, as I recall.

EDIT: Twilight mithral breastplate with a thistledown suit (RotW) likewise has no spell failure.


Feycraft mithral twilight breastplate also has ASF 0%.

Thistledown Padded Feycraft Mithral Chain Shirt has no ASF, or check penalty, and is also completely non-magical. It costs less than 2,000gp.

[Fax Celestis]

Thistledown Padded Feycraft Mithral Chain Shirt has no ASF, or check penalty, and is also completely non-magical. It costs less than 2,000gp.

Yours may cost less, but mine has a Bluff bonus and a -0 SCP too. It also provides more armor bonus.

[Fax Celestis]

Regarding battle sorceror in general, I don't feel the loss of a single spell per level is a balancing factor for the 'Armored Mage' pseudofeat. Other classes with this ability -- namely beguiler and warcaster -- have specific spell lists that limit such ability. But that's my opinion and not related to the overall thread.

They get Armored Mage (Light), medium BAB, two steps up in HD, and martial weapon proficiency with one weapon for that cost.

[maskimus]

I must protest. Prestidigitation is a FINE spell.

Indeed. Also, Acid Splash, since it's a ranged touch spell, can be used to sneak attack. So 1d3 + xd6 SA damage:smallbiggrin:

[GoblinJTHM]

does it look more balanced if it's only a d6? I'm totally into that but your right, the d8 is a bit much, no?

[Fax Celestis]

does it look more balanced if it's only a d6? I'm totally into that but your right, the d8 is a bit much, no?

Er, no? It's really not. BSorcs are nice and balanced as-is.

[Irreverent Fool]

They get Armored Mage (Light), medium BAB, two steps up in HD, and martial weapon proficiency with one weapon for that cost.

That's what I mean. You still have most of the power of a sorceror, but almost none of the downside.

[DSCrankshaw]

Every wizard and sorcerer should have a +1 Twilight Mithral Shirt.

[sleeping fishy]

That's what I mean. You still have most of the power of a sorceror, but almost none of the downside.

lol, get real!! sorcs are already weaker than wizzies because they know so few spells! a battle sorc knows HOW many spells of each level? like, ONE? and they need to take melee buff spells on top of that?? yeah, theyre gonna be doing a REEEEAL good job of being spellcasters...

battle sorc pretty much sucks--compare it to any, like, ftr1/wiz or sor x/eldritch knight y.

theres a lot of downside, and its that you cant cast any spells except like three.

[Jack Mann]

Actually, a battle sorcerer is significantly less effective than a regular sorcerer. Sorcerer are already strongly hampered by their few spells known. Reducing that makes them even more limited. Armored casting and better hit points don't change the fact that there's a very small list of things that they can actually do.

It's not a bad class, but it's not all that and a can of beans. If you already have a primary combatant like a cleric or druid, you'd be better off with a regular sorcerer.

[Fax Celestis]

The thing to remember about BSorcs is that they're not primary casters. They're secondary fighters with a bag of magical tricks to aid.

[sleeping fishy]

The thing to remember about BSorcs is that they're not primary casters. They're secondary fighters with a bag of magical tricks to aid.

so theyre clerics with a different spell list (w/o the great buffs).

WOO WOO.

[Fax Celestis]

so theyre clerics with a different spell list (w/o the great buffs).

WOO WOO.

Except, no. Clerics are frontline healer/buffers. BSorcs are tactical fighters. They shouldn't ever be frontlining or tanking. They should be harriers, hit-and-runners, or weakeners. They should fight closer in style to a UMD-rogue than to a cleric.

[GoblinJTHM]

lol, what do the stats look like on mithril full plate?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Full plate (1,500 gp), AC +8, Max Dex +1, Armor check penalty –6, Arcane spell Failure 35%, Weight 50 lb., Hardness 10, Hit points 40.

Mithral Full plate (10,500 gp), AC +8, Max Dex +3, Armor check penalty –3, Arcane spell Failure 25%, Weight 25 lb., Hardness 15, Hit points 40.
(Treated as medium armor when beneficial for the wearer)

[Fizban]

Yours may cost less, but mine has a Bluff bonus and a -0 SCP too. It also provides more armor bonus.

I haven't read feycraft in a while, but I presume that's where the bluff bonus comes from. We're both using feycraft so I don't see what yours has that mine doesn't. Mine also costs less for the same armor bonus since I don't have to pay for twilight, and pay less for mithral. Make mine +2 and it has the same armor as yours at +1/twilight, they're baisically equivalent in protective value until you start maxing it out. But mine weighs less and I'm pretty sure that yours will still have a point or two of check penalty.

The breastplate is better for min/maxing, but the chain shirt is more practical.

[Fax Celestis]

I haven't read feycraft in a while, but I presume that's where the bluff bonus comes from. We're both using feycraft so I don't see what yours has that mine doesn't. Mine also costs less for the same armor bonus since I don't have to pay for twilight, and pay less for mithral. Make mine +2 and it has the same armor as yours at +1/twilight, they're baisically equivalent in protective value until you start maxing it out. But mine weighs less and I'm pretty sure that yours will still have a point or two of check penalty.

The breastplate is better for min/maxing, but the chain shirt is more practical.

Mithral reduces the ACP to -1, and feycraft eliminates it.

It's really a matter of opinion at that point. However, I will say one thing: mine uses less books. I guess it doesn't.

So yes, matter of opinion. I just like breastplate better.

[Fizban]

Mithral reduces the ACP to -1, and feycraft eliminates it.

It's really a matter of opinion at that point. However, I will say one thing: mine uses less books. I guess it doesn't.

So yes, matter of opinion. I just like breastplate better.

That's what I get for not doing the math myself, I concede the superiority of the breastplate.

[Ivius]

You could go Spellthief. They don't get ASF on their spells in light armor, are pseudo-rogues already, can cast spells spontaneously, can take out a d6 of sneak attack to steal a prepared spell, and a few other things.