Cleric of Journalism Alignment

[Telonius]

I'd like to poll the playground on this one: If a Cleric were to get their power from belief in the cause of Journalism, what alignment would that be? I'm leaning towards True Neutral (reporting only the facts in as unbiased a way as possible), but could see either Lawful Neutral (following a strict code of journalistic ethics) or Chaotic Neutral (publishing what's true, especially if the ruling power doesn't want it known) too.

[Geddy2112]

Journalism as a force would be true neutral, allowing for disciples to have various alignments that embody the good, evil, lawful, chaotic, and true neutral aspects of journalism.

[Bobby Baratheon]

True neutral would probably be the baseline, which in my mind represents a certain mindset that journalists aim for. On the one hand you'd have lawful journalists (maybe Walter Cronkite), who I imagine as taking a more steady and measured approach - respecting some boundaries while still performing the role of the watchdog. On the other extreme you'd have the rules-be-damned Gonzo types, who are looking more to expose and shock people into indignation. I think Piper (from Fallout 4) could be a good example of a more genuinely true neutral journalist, though she definitely leans good (relatively) and chaotic. There'd be a definite focus on the Truth, with that potentially even being an associated domain.

I would it guess the cause of Journalism to be associated with these domains:
-Truth
-Knowledge
-Inquisition (if you reflavor it and maybe rename it "Investigation" or somthing, the actual spells in it would go great with a Journalism theme)

I could also see arguments for these domains, depending on the type of Journalism being reflected:
-Community
-Passion
-Trickery
-Charm

[squiggit]

You could reasonably have a journalist of any alignment and even have all of them be true to the concept. The lawful one abides by a strict code of ethics, the chaotic one will do anything to get her story. A good journalist might try to expose the wicked and an evil one might do the same thing, just because she likes watching people crumble once all their dirty secrets are exposed, or because she sees the press as another avenue to gain power and influence.

[Rangô]

I see the Journalism as CN, Caothic due to freedome of the press. This is seen as a dogma nowadays and I think it could be the motivation for a faith, freedome is the key for Chaos.
There is an unstable equilibrium point between the truth that must be told and the sensationalism, the profit motive or the public opinion. Even under government control the news find a way to spread out, breaking laws, though sometimes disregarding if it's true or not, deliverated or not, it might be you are telling something that you belive deeply, perhaps you had been witness of it but you were cheated. To give out freely access to available info gathered by independent and competing journalistic should be the goal of this faith, what you wanna do with it will mark your good or evil alignment, so neutral is clearly for me, because the fact announced hasn't a moral meaning.

[Gildedragon]

TN though accepts clerics of all alignments
Though I expect clerics are held to Truth and distorting it is cause for falling.

[Andezzar]

TN though accepts clerics of all alignmentsNope. LG, CG, LE and CE are excluded, clerics can only be one step away from the deity's alignment.

[hamishspence]

That's the general rule, certainly - but there are TN deities that have a specific exception to that rule.

Gond, deity of craft, in Faerun, allows all 9 alignments as clerics.

Kossuth, Lord of Fire, allows LG and LE clerics.

[Seto]

I second the proposition that the concept of journalism is a True Neutral object of faith. You must keep a methodological neutrality towards what you investigate or describe, as much as possible. Even if you're committed politically, arguments and facts govern your articles, not moral principles. In fact, journalism as an object of faith seems similar enough to a god of Knowledge (Boccob), the crucial difference being that you don't focus on hoarding knowledge for yourself, but making it public.
Of course, like Nature, it's a flexible enough concept that an individual character could frame it within any of the possible alignments for a Cleric. Examples include:
TN: In a world with multiple, clashing perspectives, my job is not to tell people what to think, but to give them information so they can have all the cards in hand to think by themselves.
LN: I am a vital part of society, without whom we would not be a true collectivity. I am the person who makes the government aware of what the people thinks, and the people aware of what the government decrees.
CN: Knowledge is power. For that reason, it is kept by those in power and away from those who aren't. My job is to equalize that situation, and show the mighty for what they are.
NG: By sharing knowledge, I am contributing to the general enlightenment of our society, and most importantly I draw attention to those that need helping.
NE: "♪ I'll follow you until you love me... Paparazzi... ♪" Or just the idea that, by choosing what you make public and what you don't, you can hurt a lot of people and advance yourself.

[OttoVonBigby]

There is an unstable equilibrium point between the truth that must be told and the sensationalism, the profit motive or the public opinion.
Not, IMO, in terms of "journalism" as a foundational cosmic force (which seems to be the point here). The profit motive is no more inherent to a Cleric of Journalism than it is to a Cleric of Healing who sells cure potions. The sensationalism thing, well, that's more debatable; it was certainly an element of very early examples of what we'd call journalism.

[Telonius]

In fact, journalism as an object of faith seems similar enough to a god of Knowledge (Boccob), the crucial difference being that you don't focus on hoarding knowledge for yourself, but making it public.


This is for a particular NPC character I have in mind. I'd strongly considered making making Boccob the deity. But their focus is on news, not magic; and they don't particularly care about the gods. Boccob would probably be fine with that, but the NPC is a a lot less academically oriented than would really mesh with Boccob's style.

[Belzyk]

Chthulian evil would be it's allignment

[A.A.King]

I'm going with my buddy Nixon on this and ruling that a journalist (and thus by extension a Cleric of Journalism) would be some form of Evil and most likely Chaotic Evil (seeing as their sole purpose is to uproot law and order).

Ignoring Nixon's probably slightly biased views I would probably have to say that a "God of Journalism" would be TN". I would define "Journalism" as the practise of "Gathering Information and informing the public about what they need to know". The catch comes with the "need to know" clause, which can include any alignment and any motivation.

[Belzyk]

I'm going with my buddy Nixon on this and ruling that a journalist (and thus by extension a Cleric of Journalism) would be some form of Evil and most likely Chaotic Evil (seeing as their sole purpose is to uproot law and order).

Ignoring Nixon's probably slightly biased views I would probably have to say that a "God of Journalism" would be TN". I would define "Journalism" as the practise of "Gathering Information and informing the public about what they need to know". The catch comes with the "need to know" clause, which can include any alignment and any motivation.

Id say CN by that standard. But yeah journalism in and of itself would be considered evil. Its used by all governments to mislead the populace

[hamishspence]

In the context of D&D, I could see Vecna, God of Secrets, being the archfoe of a God of Journalism that has a focus on revealing the secrets of the powerful.

[Andezzar]

I'm going with my buddy Nixon on this and ruling that a journalist (and thus by extension a Cleric of Journalism) would be some form of Evil and most likely Chaotic Evil (seeing as their sole purpose is to uproot law and order).I can see the chaotic part, but where is the evil? by D&D definition Evil has a disregard for (sentient) life and the willingness to inflict pain and suffering for one's own benefit. I don't see that in journalism per se.


Id say CN by that standard. But yeah journalism in and of itself would be considered evil. Its used by all governments to mislead the populaceDon't confuse propaganda with journalism.

[Ashtagon]

I'm going with neutral or lawful neutral.

For me, the law vs. chaos issue isn't about wanting to see the world burn or not, or about having codes of ethics, but rather, whether your loyalty is to family/clan or to large-scale organised societies with codified laws.

Journalism, as a craft, is aided by such lawful structures, but doesn't necessarily rely on them.

[A.A.King]

I can see the chaotic part, but where is the evil? by D&D definition Evil has a disregard for (sentient) life and the willingness to inflict pain and suffering for one's own benefit. I don't see that in journalism per se.

They destroyed the peoples leader and by extention all the good this great man would have done for the country for what? Personal Glory and fame. They knew that revealing "the truth" (or should I say THEIR "truth"!) to the public would bring down a Governement and the government's change to help the people and they did it anyone because they wanted their names in the history books.

And that is the kind version of events. It is also quite possible that these people simply wanted to destroy society and decided to start at the top. Frankly, if you don't see this the journalists already got to you and Nixon can no longer safe you.

[LudicSavant]

Eh, as with pretty much every "what alignment is this" thread, you could provide absolutely any of the 9 alignments and cite canon sources as to why it is that alignment. The D&D alignment system is written so inconsistently as to be completely useless when it comes to separating things into taxonomic categories.

[Andezzar]

They destroyed the peoples leader and by extention all the good this great man would have done for the country for what? Personal Glory and fame. They knew that revealing "the truth" (or should I say THEIR "truth"!) to the public would bring down a Governement and the government's change to help the people and they did it anyone because they wanted their names in the history books.

And that is the kind version of events. It is also quite possible that these people simply wanted to destroy society and decided to start at the top. Frankly, if you don't see this the journalists already got to you and Nixon can no longer safe you.Are you serious? There might be evil journalists who misuse their power, but the ideals and ethics of journalism are not evil. Reporting facts is not evil. Uncovering wrongdoing isn't either. That people have to face consequences because of the discovery of their wrongdoing even less.

Are you really painting Nixon as the protagonist of the Watergate story?

[ExLibrisMortis]

@Above: read his previous post in the thread.

The idea that there is a universal truth that can be neutrally reported is fundamentally lawful. Belief in the universal freedom of press is also lawful, on account of the 'universal' modifier.

That you (personally) are allowed to get a story, no matter what, that is chaotic - the key difference being that it is not a universal right, it's just something you (personally) think is okay for you to do.

Essentially, you can have journalists of any alignment, but generally, a degree of neutrality is probably encouraged when it comes to news coverage. Opinionated pieces are for different sections of the paper.

[A.A.King]

Are you really painting Nixon as the protagonist of the Watergate story?

I am really struggling to not answer this question with a "yes"...
But.. I feet that the start of my second paragraph in my very first comment on this subject answered that question before it was even asked....


Ignoring Nixon's probably slightly biased views

So no, I wasn't actually being serious (though a convincing case can be made as I just accidentally proved :P)

I'll restate my serious comment: Journalism is every kind Neutral. It is neither good nor evil and it is neither lawful nor chaotic. I would define 'Journalism' as nothing more than "The gathering of information and the spread of information" with the important asterix that the information gathered need not be all the information spread (nor does all information spread need to be information gathered, but that is an entirely different rabbit hole). To say that Journalists 'suppress' information on a daily basis would sound totalitarian however they are constantly making judgement calls on what to write about and what to include in the story and your personal morality will colour what that information is. All 9 of the Alignments have certain kinds information they as Journalists wouldn't tell the people because they believe it not to be the peoples interest.

Basically, Journalism is a means to an end, a tool if you will. (Nixon: All Journalists are Tools! A.A.King: Back in the box Nixon! Nixon: ....)

There are all kinds of ways to make journalism sound instinctively 'good' maybe even heroic but none of the ways are inherent to 'journalism'. You can play a great journalist and you could make an even greater Chaotic Good Demi-God of Journalism who protects certain kinds of journalists but never all kinds.

[FocusWolf413]

Nope. LG, CG, LE and CE are excluded, clerics can only be one step away from the deity's alignment.

I can see Journalism as an exception. Journalism can be motivated by anything.

[Duke of Urrel]

A god or goddess of journalism presents a lot of challenges.

This would be one of the more modern deities, because you can't have journalism unless you already have a printing press and widespread literacy. So I would imagine that in any pantheon, a god or goddess of journalism would be a youngster. Maybe a god of history and a goddess of epic poetry have an attention-challenged nephew who always wants to know what's happening RIGHT NOW but doesn't care about what happened last week. That would be a god of journalism.

Journalists are supposed to be objective, which suggests balance, which suggests neutrality. However:

Journalists may be noble investigators who expose secret wrongdoers and celebrate unsung heroes, or they may be slimy scandal mongers who alternatively invade the privacy and destroy the reputations of decent people or publish flattering puff pieces for powerful patrons (who pay them for the privilege). So they can be either Good or Evil.


Journalists may be detail-obsessed observers with their own special focus and a weekly column, or they may be cultural butterflies who comment about anything and everything, but on a flexible schedule. So they can be either Lawful or Chaotic.


I agree with others who have said that a journalistic deity should be purely Neutral. He or she should favor truthfulness above all, but should not care which truths the journalist chooses to tell and which the journalist chooses not to tell. That's for each individual devotee of the religion of journalism to decide.

[Telonius]

This would be one of the more modern deities, because you can't have journalism unless you already have a printing press and widespread literacy. So I would imagine that in any pantheon, a god or goddess of journalism would be a youngster. Maybe a god of history and a goddess of epic poetry have an attention-challenged nephew who always wants to know what's happening RIGHT NOW but doesn't care about what happened last week. That would be a god of journalism.

This is going to appear in a campaign drawing a lot or inspiration from Ankh-Morpork. E6, and it's got a superhero theme (PCs will be recruited as "masked avengers" to fix some things that the Vetinari-expy can't be seen as fixing on his own). So a more modern-ish feel is fine. The NPC is basically going to be the Lois Lane/Intrepid Reporter sort.

Thanks for all the responses!

[tiercel]

Only half tongue-in-cheek:

Aura of Perceived Bias (Ex): As the Aura quality of the standard cleric class, except that a cleric of the philosophy of Journalism always is detected as having an Aura as a cleric of alignment diametrically opposed to that of the viewer.

[Andezzar]

Only half tongue-in-cheek:

Aura of Perceived Bias (Ex): As the Aura quality of the standard cleric class, except that a cleric of the philosophy of Journalism always is detected as having an Aura as a cleric of alignment diametrically opposed to that of the viewer. Unless the viewer shares the cleric's views. Then it appears the same as the viewer's alignment. ;)

[Telonius]

The variant paladin associated with the cause is going to have a "Nose for News" ability (instead of Detect X) that lets them make a full-round Gather Information check at +10 DC. If they also have the Urban Tracking feat, treat it as though they have the Scent ability regarding leads to a story; Gather Information checks at no penalty.