Mystic Theurge question

[ReaverVonVette]

Would the Cleric Spell Access ability from the Rainbow Servant class make a character qualify for Mystic Theurge?

I know that it would be an awful idea to do so, I'm just curious.

[Troacctid]

Such spells are cast as divine spells if they don’t appear on the sorcerer/wizard or bard spell lists.
Yes, assuming you learn an appropriate spell.

[ComaVision]

Rainbow Servant specifies that they're cast as Divine spells if they're not on the arcane spell lists, so it looks like it, yes.

[Aquillion]

Note that you would still need at least one level in a divine spellcasting class to enhance with it, of course.

Unless you want to argue that Cleric Spell Access makes their class both a divine and arcane caster, allowing you to devote both the +1 arcane level and the +1 divine level to the same cl--

Oh my god, there are classes you could legitimately, undisputably do that with, aren't there? Has anyone explored that exploit before? It seems so obvious now that I think about it; all you need is a second class, other than Mystic Theurge, that is both a divine and arcane caster, then you gain two levels of spellcasting in that class for every level of Mystic Theurge.

[Troacctid]

Unless you want to argue that Cleric Spell Access makes their class both a divine and arcane caster, allowing you to devote both the +1 arcane level and the +1 divine level to the same cl--

Oh my god, there are classes you could legitimately, undisputably do that with, aren't there? Has anyone explored that exploit before? It seems so obvious now that I think about it; all you need is a second class, other than Mystic Theurge, that is both a divine and arcane caster, then you gain two levels of spellcasting in that class for every level of Mystic Theurge.
No, you would still only gain one effective level for each Mystic Theurge level you take. You add your Mystic Theurge level to your Sha'ir level for spells per day, so if you're a Sha'ir 3/Mystic Theurge 3, you have the spells per day of a Sha'ir 6, because 3 + 3 = 6.

[Aquillion]

No, you would still only gain one effective level for each Mystic Theurge level you take. You add your Mystic Theurge level to your Sha'ir level for spells per day, so if you're a Sha'ir 3/Mystic Theurge 3, you have the spells per day of a Sha'ir 6, because 3 + 3 = 6.
That's only part of Mystic Theurge's ability, though. It says:

When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.Nothing in there says that the Arcane spellcasting class and the Divine spellcasting class can't be the same class. If you take Sha'ir 3 / Mystic Theurge 3 and specify Sha'ir for both, then you add your Mystic Theurge levels to Sha'ir (following the direction to add the level of Mystic Theurge to your arcane spellcasting class), then you add your Mystic Theurge levels to Sha'ir again (following the direction to add the level of Mystic Theurge to your divine spellcasting class), giving you spells as if you were a level 9 Sha'ir.

[Sliver]

But think of the stacking!

[Troacctid]

That's only part of Mystic Theurge's ability, though. It says:
Nothing in there says that the Arcane spellcasting class and the Divine spellcasting class can't be the same class. If you take Sha'ir 3 / Mystic Theurge 3 and specify Sha'ir for both, then you add your Mystic Theurge levels to Sha'ir (following the direction to add the level of Mystic Theurge to your arcane spellcasting class), then you add your Mystic Theurge levels to Sha'ir again (following the direction to add the level of Mystic Theurge to your divine spellcasting class), giving you spells as if you were a level 9 Sha'ir.

There's no point choosing the same class twice, though, because it still only gives you +1.

[Aquillion]

There's no point choosing the same class twice, though, because it still only gives you +1.Where are you getting that, though? I can understand saying that that's how it ought to work, but this is what it says:


When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously.When a level 3 Sha'ir gains their first level of Mystic Theurge, they do the following:

1. Gain new spells per day as if you gained a level of any one arcane spellcasting class. You choose Sha'ir for this, and gain spells as if you just reached Sha'ir level 4.

2. Gain new spells per day as if you gained a level of any one divine spellcasting class. You choose Sha'ir again, and get spells as if you just reached Sha'ir level 5.

[Grim Reader]

I am away from books, but I believe to qualify as an arcane casting class, a class must be able to cast all its spells as arcane spells? And the same for divine casting class. I do know that is the rule for spontaneous/prepared casters. Maybe they left that out for divine/arcane?

Hence, Sha'ir and level 10 Rainbow Servants do not qualify as either Arcane or Divine classes, rather than qualifying as both.

[ATHATH]

Note that you would still need at least one level in a divine spellcasting class to enhance with it, of course.

Unless you want to argue that Cleric Spell Access makes their class both a divine and arcane caster, allowing you to devote both the +1 arcane level and the +1 divine level to the same cl--

Oh my god, there are classes you could legitimately, undisputably do that with, aren't there? Has anyone explored that exploit before? It seems so obvious now that I think about it; all you need is a second class, other than Mystic Theurge, that is both a divine and arcane caster, then you gain two levels of spellcasting in that class for every level of Mystic Theurge.
This has been pointed out before, but it hasn't been used much because of rules debates.

[Troacctid]

Where are you getting that, though? I can understand saying that that's how it ought to work, but this is what it says:

When a level 3 Sha'ir gains their first level of Mystic Theurge, they do the following:

1. Gain new spells per day as if you gained a level of any one arcane spellcasting class. You choose Sha'ir for this, and gain spells as if you just reached Sha'ir level 4.

2. Gain new spells per day as if you gained a level of any one divine spellcasting class. You choose Sha'ir again, and get spells as if you just reached Sha'ir level 5.

You make it sound like it's a two-step process, but it's not. You gain one effective level in an arcane class and a divine class. Sha'ir is an arcane class and a divine class, so you gain one effective level in it. And there you go.