How to get Magic Circle on Sublime Chord???

[magicalmagicman]

My DM and I decided to do something hilarious. He said he will allow Noble Djinni/Efreeti wish loops if... a bard does it! XD

edit:I've decided to get Sublime Chord!

So now I got Dimensional Anchor and Planar Bindings on my Bard, so for the final step how about Magic Circle against Evil/Good/Law/Chaos?

I really, really, really don't want to go Arcane Disciple.

[Dromuthra]

You could also accomplish this by going into Sublime Chord - full access to the wizard spell list!

[magicalmagicman]

You could also accomplish this by going into Sublime Chord - full access to the wizard spell list!

Oh my god! Genius! I don't even need malconvoker with this prestige class!

Only one slight tiny little hitch though. How do I get magic circle on a sublime chord? Damn it! Sooooo close! I really don't want to go arcane disciple >.<

[Psyren]

Lyric ThaumaturgeCM should do the trick - they are 10/10 casting and have a class feature called "Spell Secret" that gives them bonus spells from the sor/wiz list. You can use this to grab both Dimensional Anchor and Magic Circle at LT 6, and you can even combine it with Sublime Chord.

[magicalmagicman]

Lyric ThaumaturgeCM should do the trick - they are 10/10 casting and have a class feature called "Spell Secret" that gives them bonus spells from the sor/wiz list. You can use this to grab both Dimensional Anchor and Magic Circle at LT 6, and you can even combine it with Sublime Chord.

So close and yet so far...

Thanks! This is my current choice!

So much for level 8 lesser planar binding XD. Unless of course, i suck it up and take arcane disciple.

edit:Actually I neglected the Listen:13 requirement, meaning first level I can get sublime chord is at level 11. Hmm... this changes things...

edit2: Damn, can't get full 10 sublime chord and 6 lyric thaumaturge. Although this does solve my original problem (planar binding on bard for wish loops) by level 15, I'm getting a little greedy hehehe.

[Ger. Bessa]

Lyric ThaumaturgeCM should do the trick - they are 10/10 casting and have a class feature called "Spell Secret" that gives them bonus spells from the sor/wiz list. You can use this to grab both Dimensional Anchor and Magic Circle at LT 6, and you can even combine it with Sublime Chord.

No you can't. It progresses bard and bard only. Sublime chord isn't bard.

[magicalmagicman]

No you can't. It progresses bard and bard only. Sublime chord isn't bard.

You can always get sublime chord to advance lyric thaumaturge, no?

[Psyren]

No you can't. It progresses bard and bard only. Sublime chord isn't bard.

Whoops - my bad :smallredface:

Lyric Thaumaturge + Bard alone can still do everything the OP wants though - Dimensional Anchor, Magic Circle and Planar Binding.

[Troacctid]

You can always get sublime chord to advance lyric thaumaturge, no?
No, Lyric Thaumaturge doesn't have spellcasting of its own, it only progresses the spellcasting of other classes. Also, Sublime Chord has independent casting. It doesn't advance any other class. So there's that too.

I don't really know if your DM will be on board for Sublime Chord. I feel like that doesn't count as doing it as a Bard. It would be kind of like if you started as a Bard and prestiged into Nar Demonbinder. Okay, you have Bard levels, but they're not giving you Planar Binding.

[DrMartin]

Bards get UMD - just use a scroll, and if you need it again, use one of your infinite wishes on it :smallcool:

[Crake]

Cant you just get the extra spell known feat?

[magicalmagicman]

Cant you just get the extra spell known feat?

FAQ says you cant use it that feat to get spells not on your spell list. Unless you're saying Sublime Chord has magic circle in its spell list...


I don't really know if your DM will be on board for Sublime Chord. I feel like that doesn't count as doing it as a Bard. It would be kind of like if you started as a Bard and prestiged into Nar Demonbinder. Okay, you have Bard levels, but they're not giving you Planar Binding.

God damn it! WHY WON'T ANY CLASS GIVE 3RD LEVEL SPELLS?

My DM said he'll think about it. Lyric thaumaturge alone accomplishes my goals, 6 levels of Lyric Thamaturge + 8 levels of Sublime Chord also accomplishes my goals. Nar Demonbinder still requires level 10 minimum to enter so it is inferior to sublime chord in every way.

[Crake]

FAQ says you cant use it that feat to get spells not on your spell list. Unless you're saying Sublime Chord has magic circle in its spell list...



God damn it! WHY WON'T ANY CLASS GIVE 3RD LEVEL SPELLS?

My DM said he'll think about it. Lyric thaumaturge alone accomplishes my goals, 6 levels of Lyric Thamaturge + 8 levels of Sublime Chord also accomplishes my goals. Nar Demonbinder still requires level 10 minimum to enter so it is inferior to sublime chord in every way.

Well, sublime chord has access to the sorcerer/wizard spell list, right? Sure sublime chord only ever actually gets access to 4th and above by virtue of their class, but they still have access to the right list to be able to get it, right?

[Telonius]

Hmm. Divine Bard gets it at 3, but then I think you'd be out of luck for Planar Binding.

[magicalmagicman]

Well, sublime chord has access to the sorcerer/wizard spell list, right? Sure sublime chord only ever actually gets access to 4th and above by virtue of their class, but they still have access to the right list to be able to get it, right?

Unless I have something like a definitive written rule, my DM is going to say no to this :(

I wish there was a rule you could use higher level spell knowns to learn lower level spells.


Hmm. Divine Bard gets it at 3, but then I think you'd be out of luck for Planar Binding.

Yeah I considered divine bard, but I really want charisma to be my casting stat.

[Psyren]

I wish there was a rule you could use higher level spell knowns to learn lower level spells.

You can - Sublime Chord has the same "swap out a spell known every 4 levels" clause that Sorcerer and Bard do. The problem in this case is that Sublime Chord specifically restricts you to learning only 4ths and higher. If it didn't, you could use the swap clause to pick up Magic Circle.

[Caedes]

A little bit our of the box. But might help you out.

Rainbow Servant from the Complete Divine. Adds to Arcane spell casting and gives access to the Good Domain at level 1.

[Deadline]

A little bit our of the box. But might help you out.

Rainbow Servant from the Complete Divine. Adds to Arcane spell casting and gives access to the Good Domain at level 1.

There are RP problems with that and what the OP wants to do, and it sounds like the OP's DM may enforce them.

[magicalmagicman]

A little bit our of the box. But might help you out.

Rainbow Servant from the Complete Divine. Adds to Arcane spell casting and gives access to the Good Domain at level 1.

This is it! Exactly what I was looking for! Well almost.

According to the Extra Domain section of complete divine, once I get a domain on a spontaneous caster, I can learn that spell like a normal spell!

So... 7 bard, 8th level Rainbow Servant, 9th level (bard or rainbow servant) grab magic circle, and 11th level grab sublime chord!

Damn it, the requirement of finding the secret temple of the couatls kind of make it setting dependent. Soooooo close. Sooooooo close.

edit: I just realized Sublime Chord allows me to take a lot of class dips since its independent of spellcasting class! Heheheheheh. Still though 5 dip in wizard is no better than going lyric thaumaturge.

edit2: Actually, further reading of fluff, there are lots of secret temples of couatls, making it setting independent. This is my favorite right now. The massive alignment restrictions (gotta be NG or TN) is kind of a downer though.

edit3:The only way you disqualify is alignment change. I'm sure its well within the rights of a true neutral character to refuse to serve the couatls and never speak to them again. Hehehheheheheh

[Troacctid]

God damn it! WHY WON'T ANY CLASS GIVE 3RD LEVEL SPELLS?
Magic Circle is a 4th level spell for a Nar Demonbinder. And it requires 7th level, not 10th.

[Deadline]

edit2: Actually, further reading of fluff, there are lots of secret temples of couatls, making it setting independent. This is my favorite right now. The massive alignment restrictions (gotta be NG or TN) is kind of a downer though.

edit3:The only way you disqualify is alignment change. I'm sure its well within the rights of a true neutral character to refuse to serve the couatls and never speak to them again. Hehehheheheheh

There is an issue you aren't considering. Your alignment can change by repeatedly doing actions of a given type. So you can shift to evil by committing evil acts. Casting spells with the Evil descriptor count as evil acts. Planar Binding is an [Evil] spell when used to bind evil creatures.

Also, have you considered that your GM may not want you to use infinite free wish loops? It does break the game down, which really isn't all that fun for anyone.

[magicalmagicman]

Also, have you considered that your GM may not want you to use infinite free wish loops? It does break the game down, which really isn't all that fun for anyone.

Yeah, wish loops are not allowed in a serious campaign. This is just for a hilarious 1 session campaign.

[Crake]

why don't you just UMD a runestaff or something?

[magicalmagicman]

why don't you just UMD a runestaff or something?

Isn't it obvious? DM won't allow wish loops for that because anyone can do that, and it's not hilarious. All spells must be cast by a bard.

[Crake]

Well, in that case, get that feat which allows spontaneous casters to prepare metamagic spells (to avoid elongated cast times) which will allow you to qualify for wyrm wizard. Since losing a bard caster level doesn't really affect sublime chord at all, you can afford to take the second level in wyrm wizard which gives you spell knowledge, explicitly letting you learn spells that aren't on your list equal to or lower than the highest spell you can cast. If you get bard 6/wyrm wizard 2/bard 2(or some other bard prc)/sublime chord 10 you should be fine.

[magicalmagicman]

Well, in that case, get that feat which allows spontaneous casters to prepare metamagic spells (to avoid elongated cast times) which will allow you to qualify for wyrm wizard. Since losing a bard caster level doesn't really affect sublime chord at all, you can afford to take the second level in wyrm wizard which gives you spell knowledge, explicitly letting you learn spells that aren't on your list equal to or lower than the highest spell you can cast. If you get bard 6/wyrm wizard 2/bard 2(or some other bard prc)/sublime chord 10 you should be fine.

Thanks! This is what I was looking for. Many thanks. You overlooked one fact though, I can't take 2nd level of wyrm wizard until level 11 because bards don't learn level 4 spells until level 10 and magic circle is level 3 and you need access to level 4 spells for spell research to grant you a level 3 spell.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Thanks! This is what I was looking for. Many thanks. You overlooked one fact though, I can't take 2nd level of wyrm wizard until level 11 because bards don't learn level 4 spells until level 10 and magic circle is level 3 and you need access to level 4 spells for spell research to grant you a level 3 spell.If retraining is allowed, you can combine Sanctum Spell, Heighten Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, and Extra Slot to get yourself up to 9th level spells at level 1, so just get whichever slot you need at whatever level you need.

[Troacctid]

If you want it on a Bard, then Lyric Thaumaturge 10 will do everything you need. If you want to go into a prestige class with independent casting, Nar Demonbinder gets all of the spells you want (except for Gate), so you can just take that instead of trying to get Magic Circle on a Sublime Chord. Remember that Improved Sigil (Krau) gives you early entry to Nar Demonbinder, so you actually come online sooner as well.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Thanks! This is what I was looking for. Many thanks. You overlooked one fact though, I can't take 2nd level of wyrm wizard until level 11 because bards don't learn level 4 spells until level 10 and magic circle is level 3 and you need access to level 4 spells for spell research to grant you a level 3 spell.

So add it to your spells known as a sublime chord. You can always use a 4th level spell slot to cast it.

[Crake]

Thanks! This is what I was looking for. Many thanks. You overlooked one fact though, I can't take 2nd level of wyrm wizard until level 11 because bards don't learn level 4 spells until level 10 and magic circle is level 3 and you need access to level 4 spells for spell research to grant you a level 3 spell.

No no, you misunderstand. Wyrm wizard gives access to any spell up to the highest you can cast, not 1 level lower than the highest you can cast like many other sources. It's really useful lategame for letting wizards gain access to miracle :smalltongue:

This is the exact line (emphasis mine)

Starting at 2nd level, select one spell from any class's spell list (including divine spells), of a level equal to or lower than the highest-level arcane spell you can prepare and cast. You can add this spell to your arcane spellcasting class spell list as a spell of the same level; all other aspects of the spell remain unchanged.

[magicalmagicman]

No no, you misunderstand. Wyrm wizard gives access to any spell up to the highest you can cast, not 1 level lower than the highest you can cast like many other sources. It's really useful lategame for letting wizards gain access to miracle :smalltongue:

This is the exact line (emphasis mine)

Wow I can't read. Thanks for clarifying! Awesome! Thanks!