Barbarian. When is the best time to dip fighter?

[Jgosse]

I am getting ready to play in my first 5E game and am considering a barbarian/fighter. If I am understanding multi classing correct levels don't stack for things like ability point gains at level 4, Proficiency bonuses, and extra Atks. This makes it a big deal to multi classing. So if I am correct and I want to know when is the best time to dip fighter. I am starting at level 3 , Rolled stats and I did lucked out. STR19 DEX16 CON19 INT8 WIS16 CHA12 I am thinking of having the Fighter level Right out the gate, should I wait, or should I even bother?

[Giant2005]

You definitely want to get our hands on Extra Attack at level 5 before you multiclass. After level 5, Barbarian doesn't really bring much of anything to the table right up until level 20, so if you are going to be dipping at all, then do it at any point after level 5 you like - it won't matter when.

Although I think you are doing it wrong. You are better off majoring in Fighter and dipping Barbarian. If you are dipping Barbarian, 3 levels is all you would want - or 4 if you really want that extra ASI/Feat. That means you would be better off starting as a Fighter, getting to level 5 and then considering taking your Barb levels. That way you wouldn't have to take those extra 2 Barb levels (levels 4 and 5) for an ability that Fighter would give you anyway.
If you are considering starting as Barb and majoring in Fighter, you might be tempted to take the 3 Barb levels and then multiclass into Fighter to eventually get Extra Attack at level 8. If so, I'd recommend you put those thoughts out of your head - 8 levels is too long to wait for something as important as Extra Attack.

[Zman]

For Barb/Fighter or Fighter/Barb I'm partial to only 2 or maybe 3 levels of Barbarian. I was working on a Barbarian2/Champion18 for a bit, was a Half Orc DualWielder.

Also, Proficiency Bonus is based off of Character level, not class level.

[Jgosse]

You definitely want to get our hands on Extra Attack at level 5 before you multiclass. After level 5, Barbarian doesn't really bring much of anything to the table right up until level 20, so if you are going to be dipping at all, then do it at any point after level 5 you like - it won't matter when.

Although I think you are doing it wrong. You are better off majoring in Fighter and dipping Barbarian. If you are dipping Barbarian, 3 levels is all you would want - or 4 if you really want that extra ASI/Feat. That means you would be better off starting as a Fighter, getting to level 5 and then considering taking your Barb levels. That way you wouldn't have to take those extra 2 Barb levels (levels 4 and 5) for an ability that Fighter would give you anyway.
If you are considering starting as Barb and majoring in Fighter, you might be tempted to take the 3 Barb levels and then multiclass into Fighter to eventually get Extra Attack at level 8. If so, I'd recommend you put those thoughts out of your head - 8 levels is too long to wait for something as important as Extra Attack.
I am going Barbarian 1st for the RP aspect of it , so 5 levels barbarian and then go fighter. Damn this new version is hard on multi classing.

[smcmike]

In a related question, how would you do the early levels for a half-Orc barbarian/rogue? I'm torn between racing for extra attack and grabbing cunning action (I will probably start at 1/1, just to get stealth and athletics expertise asap).

[Jgosse]

For Barb/Fighter or Fighter/Barb I'm partial to only 2 or maybe 3 levels of Barbarian. I was working on a Barbarian2/Champion18 for a bit, was a Half Orc DualWielder.

Also, Proficiency Bonus is based off of Character level, not class level.

Champion is the way I was thinking. and the PB is something I guess.

[Giant2005]

I am going Barbarian 1st for the RP aspect of it , so 5 levels barbarian and then go fighter. Damn this new version is hard on multi classing.

Are you okay with majoring in Fighter as long as you at least start as Barbarian? If so, you could start Barb 1 and then take 5 levels of Fighter. 6th level isn't too late to get Extra Attack and it is a much better long term solution than essentially wasting 1 or 2 levels on Barbarian and gaining basically nothing for it.
Then again, if you are going Champion (and half-orc), you may be able to pull off majoring in Barbarian. 3 levels of Champ and Barb 9+ could work as a crit fisher build. It wouldn't be as good as Fighter 11/Barb 3, but it would be serviceable enough and superior to a pure Barb that isn't level 20.

[Foxhound438]

8 levels is too long to wait for something as important as Extra Attack.

you can always take polearm master at level 4, it costs your bonus action to get the second attack but it will certainly pad out those in between levels.

I highly recommend using battle master instead of champion, the tricks you get are way better than +1 crit range.

edit: you might consider going out to 9 in barb if your campaign lasts that long, going from 3 uses of rage per day to 4 as well as +3 damage from +2.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd go barbarian 5, then do fighter for however many levels. That extra attack is a big deal, and you'll want it as soon as you can get it.

[Giant2005]

I highly recommend using battle master instead of champion, the tricks you get are way better than +1 crit range..

That is often true in a party that takes a lot of short rests, but it is true much less often in a Orc Fighter/Barb multiclass.
When attacking Recklessly with a 19+ crit range, you will land a crit approx. every 5 attacks. With 9 Barb levels and 3 Fighter levels your crits will inflict an extra 3d12 damage over your regular attacks. You would have to be taking a fairly extreme number of short rests for a Battle Master's limited number of Superiority dice to keep up with an extra 3D12 damage every two and a half rounds.

[Mongobear]

I have been toying with a similar sort of build myself for close to a year now, but I can never get it to a point I am happy about.

I started off trying the Half-Orc Barb 17/Fighter 3 crit fishing build, but I must have had some serious bad luck, because I never crit anywhere near once every 5 swings, and I pretty much was always attacking with Reckless Attacks advantage.

I moved on to Half-Orc Barb 9/Fighter 11, which is another crit fishing build, but it also has more basic attacks than a regular Barbarian would. This one probably performed the best out of the batch as far as actually scoring a critical goes, but losing out on the 2nd and 3rd boost from Brutal Critical made them feel sort of weak. Having 3 Attacks/round plus a Bonus Action attack was just as good as Fighter 20, imo, but again, the crits just felt weak.

I toyed with Half-Orc Barbarian 2/Fighter 18 for the extra action surge, large amount of ASI/Feats, and full Archetype features, but this really didn't feel like the other builds. Only one extra damage dice from Half-Orc doesn't make them feel much stronger, the only benefit to this build was the amount of stat boosts or Feats you can gain from all of the Fighter levels, as well as the inherent difficulty enemies have when trying to kill you between Survivor and Rage damage resistance. Healing 10 damage/turn and being resistant to B/P/S damage backed by Feats like Resilient(Wisdom), Tough, and PAM/Sentinel combined make a very tough character to bring down.


As is, I feel that the best "crit fishing" build is probably something along the lines of Half-Orc Fighter 15/Rogue 5 or Fighter 11/Rogue 9, or Fighter 5/Rogue 15, Focusing combat styles on TWFing with Rapiers, or Archery with a Longbow. (If you go enough Fighter with Champion, you could do both, since they get a 2nd Fighting Style). Either way, the main focus is to get as much extra Dice added to an attack so that they get multiplied by a critical.

I don't think the Barbarian route is worth it considering how amazing their capstone is, +4 Str/Con and Infinite Rages is an amazing capstone, I don't think there is any multi-class dip in the game that makes you better than staying full Barbarian.

[Giant2005]

If you want to fish for crits, Paladin is where it is at. Just save you spell slots for smiting whenever you land the crit - it is more reliable than Rogue due to being able to pick and choose which attacks to apply the damage bonus to, and it is of far greater consequence than the Barb's Brutal critical.
If you are building for level 20, something like Champion 3/Barb 2/Paladin 12/Bard 3 would be best.

[Mongobear]

If you want to fish for crits, Paladin is where it is at. Just save you spell slots for smiting whenever you land the crit - it is more reliable than Rogue due to being able to pick and choose which attacks to apply the damage bonus to, and it is of far greater consequence than the Barb's Brutal critical.
If you are building for level 20, something like Champion 3/Barb 2/Paladin 12/Bard 3 would be best.

You're probably right, I was using Rogue mainly because their bonus dice aren't tied down to an elemental damage type and they aren't limited by Spell Slots, but for an average day of adventuring, I doubt you would ever crit enough to run out if that was all you used them for.

[djreynolds]

I am getting ready to play in my first 5E game and am considering a barbarian/fighter. If I am understanding multi classing correct levels don't stack for things like ability point gains at level 4, Proficiency bonuses, and extra Atks. This makes it a big deal to multi classing. So if I am correct and I want to know when is the best time to dip fighter. I am starting at level 3 , Rolled stats and I did lucked out. STR19 DEX16 CON19 INT8 WIS16 CHA12 I am thinking of having the Fighter level Right out the gate, should I wait, or should I even bother?

Are you going 20 levels?

[Spacehamster]

1-5 barb bear totem
6-8 champion fighter
9-20 barb
Be a melee monster when you rage, always hit with advantage
Since you only take half damage anyways, huge chance to crit with advantage and
19-20 range. Also pick half Orc for additional weapon die on crit. ^^

[Gtdead]

Before dipping fighter there is one thing to consider.
Will your campaign reach lvl 20? If yes, then don't dip fighter.
2 more attacks per short rest isn't worth losing the Barbarian capstone and he gets good stuff in the process. Advantage on initiative, criticals etc.

Other than that, your best bet is to dip fighter either after Barb 5 for extra attack, or barb 6 for subclass feature. Then grab either 2 or 3 levels of fighter, and finish as barb.

[Spacehamster]

Before dipping fighter there is one thing to consider.
Will your campaign reach lvl 20? If yes, then don't dip fighter.
2 more attacks per short rest isn't worth losing the Barbarian capstone and he gets good stuff in the process. Advantage on initiative, criticals etc.

Other than that, your best bet is to dip fighter either after Barb 5 for extra attack, or barb 6 for subclass feature. Then grab either 2 or 3 levels of fighter, and finish as barb.

I'd take brutal critical + 19-20 crits over the barb cap any day myself. ^.^