Does ranger single target damage get much better after 5th level?

[dev6500]

So I am looking over the hunter ranger(currently playing a 7th level one) and I am wondering whether their single target damage really improves much after 5th level. From what I can see, at 5th level, I already have sharpshooter, 18 dexterity, horde breaker, and crossbow expert. So I am already getting 3 attacks on 1 target and 1 attack on a adjacent target at d6 + 4 + 10.

I am looking down the road, and I am unsure what improvements really await me. Volley is nice but it won't improve my single target dpr and swift quiver won't come until toward 17th level and only nets me 1 extra attack at the expense of another concentration buff.

Am I missing anything. I feel like my character has already peaked in terms of combat potential.

[Foxhound438]

that is in fact the downfall of the ranger class. The two items you mentioned aside, you end up not being able to get much more out of ranger past level 5, and out of 12 more levels only 2 will help you (not even that much). Going out to 7 for multiattack defense might be worthwhile. Otherwise, at this point, MC into rogue, druid, or maybe cleric if you want to continue benefiting from level-ups. Fighter (battle master) might be worth it if you don't mind having a level that gets you only a redundancy on extra attack (and thus no benefit).

[Giant2005]

Nope, there is no more damage coming your way. That is one of the things I fixed in my revised version (in my signature).

[Anchestor]

I play a ranger as well is only lvl 3 yet. My plan is to multi class after 5 into rogue to take assassine at 3 and maybe staying with rogue til the end.

Same as you I play a Vhuman, crossbow expert at 1 and sharpshooter at 4 and after 5 you only gain some spells along the way until at 11 you can pick up volley. With rogue you get sneak attack to add to your dmg and with assassinate at 3 you can combine the possible advantage at the start of a fight with sharpshooter. MC'ing into rogue is a good possibility to boost your dmg, I believe.

Even considered going fighter after Rogue 4 for action surge, but you would need the 13 strength for that and Ranger 5/Rogue X is fine too.

[Saggo]

Depending on when you multiclass, you might delay 20 Dex, something to consider when deciding when.


I am looking down the road, and I am unsure what improvements really await me. Volley is nice but it won't improve my single target dpr and swift quiver won't come until toward 17th level and only nets me 1 extra attack at the expense of another concentration buff.

True, but it's a nice spell. You have Crossbow Expert already, meaning you can use a heavy crossbow. With Swift Quiver, a 4 attacks with Heavy Crossbow is 4d10+20+(0:40), average 42-82. This is strictly better than 3 attacks with a Hand Crossbow and Hunter's Mark, 6d6+15+(0:30), average 36-66.

With Battlemaster 15, that's at most 6d6+15+3d10+(0:30), average 52.5-82.5, but that's for 2 turns only (5-7 potential superiority). Rogue is better since Sneak Attack doesn't require resources, Rogue 12 is 12d6+15+(0:30), average 57-87, and Rogue 15 is 14d6+15+(0:30), average 64-94.

So Swift Quiver is obviously not the best single-target DPR, but it's good single-target DPR. The question is just what do you want, Ranger AoE and spell progression, Maneuvers, or Single-Target DPR and Rogue tricks.

[Giant2005]

Even if you deem Swift Quiver good enough for you to want to stick it out, it isn't a good idea. You would get the spell faster by multiclassing into Bard (5 Ranger/10 Bard) than pushing through to Ranger 17. Personally I think those 10 Bard levels would also bring a lot more useful other abilities than what the Ranger brings to the table during those same levels.

[Saggo]

Even if you deem Swift Quiver good enough for you to want to stick it out, it isn't a good idea. You would get the spell faster by multiclassing into Bard (5 Ranger/10 Bard) than pushing through to Ranger 17. Personally I think those 10 Bard levels would also bring a lot more useful other abilities than what the Ranger brings to the table during those same levels.

Well Swift Quiver is good enough, objectively or subjectively.

Whatever build is chosen, you're still trading Ranger features for Bard features, including casting modifier. So it goes back to answering what do you want.

[Giant2005]

Well Swift Quiver is good enough, objectively or subjectively.

I don't think that is necessarily true. The ability itself is pretty great but not great enough to make up for 12 levels of virtually nothing. You would get much better use in terms of both damage as well as utility by spending those 12 levels as a Rogue.

[dev6500]

Thank you for all the replies. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I will now have to decide whether I want to MC and focus on damage or stick with ranger for specific ranger specific abilities and or spells.

[Saggo]

I don't think that is necessarily true. The ability itself is pretty great but not great enough to make up for 12 levels of virtually nothing. You would get much better use in terms of both damage as well as utility by spending those 12 levels as a Rogue.

Evasion, Vanish, Volley/Whirlwind, Lightning Arrow/Conjure Barrage, Additional Favored Enemies and Natural Terrains, Feral Senses, and no delayed ASIs doesn't qualify as nothing. 12 levels of Hunter is a rather unique package. No Multiclassing can replicate Beastmaster.

Rogue would get you features like Evasion, Vanish, Feral Senses, and better single-target DPR, but then you lose features like Volley, AoE spells, and rather unique utility spells.

Bard may give you Swift Quiver and utility spells, but you lose features like Evasion, Volley, AoE spells that synergize with archery, and Feral Senses. And some people just plain like more Favored Enemies and Natural Terrains.

Multiclassing can net you those features, and likely net those features quicker, but it won't replace the Ranger package. Ranger offers a unique package, while granting useful single- and multi-target DPR.

Swift Quiver answers the question of does Ranger DPR get better. That's why the important question here is what do you (as a player) want.

Seriously, I can't stress how nice an at-will AoE like Volley is.

[ZX6Rob]

Rangers in 5th edition definitely fall behind the curve for single-target damage as the levels start stacking up, and end up actually being much better at slaying mooks and hordes than single, big targets. For picking up additional damage to single targets (if you want to keep shooting them with arrows), the multiclass I would suggest is Fighter, going into Battlemaster. Rangers do get some cool spells later in the game that help a bit, but those are very limited-use resources. A Battlemaster's maneuvers, refreshing on a short rest as they do, will likely offer a slight boost in both your combat utility and overall damage output.

That being said, I really like Rangers, especially the Hunter and Deep Stalker archetypes, and I think you can still enjoy yourself and contribute meaningfully to every encounter with a single-classed Ranger.

[Foxhound438]

This is strictly better than 3 attacks with a Hand Crossbow and Hunter's Mark,


strictly? no. you have to spend one of your only 2 5th level spells per day to do it.

Granted, there's not a lot else to do with those slots, but that itself proves the point that more ranger levels is ultimately not worth it. Ranger is good for 3 levels, maybe 5, maaaybe 7 if you really think multiattack defense will do you a ton of good.

[Saggo]

strictly? no. you have to spend one of your only 2 5th level spells per day to do it.
It's a spell, that's a given. Given a choice for Concentration, Swift Quiver is strictly better than Hunter's Mark.


Granted, there's not a lot else to do with those slots, but that itself proves the point that more ranger levels is ultimately not worth it. Ranger is good for 3 levels, maybe 5, maaaybe 7 if you really think multiattack defense will do you a ton of good.
There's plenty going on past level 7 that I don't really need to rewrite.

[Gtdead]

While quiver is strictly better, it's not dramatically better, thanks to Crossbow Expert. In fact against lvl appropriate targets, expect a 8~ dpr increase with quiver, accounting for the bonus action wasted to apply mark.

Grabbing 7 rogue levels not only outperforms quiver but makes this a lot easier too. Most importantly, it moves the weapon focus away from the bonus action and allows you to use a longbow (i literally hate hand crossbow, it completely kills the archer image for me). Second you get cunning action, making the multiclass more "rangery" than straight ranger. Funny thing that a guy who's supposed to have terrain advantage, needs to wait till lvl 14 to get it in some consistent form.

I mean look at Hide In Plain Sight.. I'm pretty sure that any person that creates a military type ranger/scout would want to roleplay this at lvl 1 and probably hope for an advantage in stealth checks. They need a lvl 10 war hero dragonslayer to figure out how to put mud on his face.

And then we have Foe Slayer. Unparalleled hunter.. BM Fighter gets this at lvl 3..

[Saggo]

While quiver is strictly better, it's not dramatically better, thanks to Crossbow Expert. In fact against lvl appropriate targets, expect a 8~ dpr increase with quiver, accounting for the bonus action wasted to apply mark.

Grabbing 7 rogue levels not only outperforms quiver but makes this a lot easier too. Most importantly, it moves the weapon focus away from the bonus action and allows you to use a longbow (i literally hate hand crossbow, it completely kills the archer image for me). Second you get cunning action, making the multiclass more "rangery" than straight ranger. Funny thing that a guy who's supposed to have terrain advantage, needs to wait till lvl 14 to get it in some consistent form.

As it was already pointed out, Rogue is better single-target DPR, but by your admission not dramatically given it's only an ~8 DPR boost over Swift Quiver. There is the caveat that you need to either use Crossbow Expert or not use Sharpshooter for this to be definitively true.

If you're holding Swift Quiver as a sort of pseudo-capstone, then yes, you're likely to be disappointed. Swift Quiver is merely a competitive DPR boost while getting the specific package Ranger gives as shown already.


...Hide In Plain Sight...

...Foe Slayer...
Fluff aside, Ranger does have a few lackluster features. There's a reason those weren't really brought up until now. Although while Foe Slayer may be a weak capstone, in it's defense it's still a damage boost.

[Foxhound438]

There's plenty going on past level 7 that I don't really need to rewrite.

a large amount of which you get from rogue, the rest being mostly flavor ribbons.

[djreynolds]

Try a little cleric and rogue, cannot go wrong. 8 levels of cleric could get you some extra damage and good spells, 7 levels of rouge in addition

[Spacehamster]

So I am looking over the hunter ranger(currently playing a 7th level one) and I am wondering whether their single target damage really improves much after 5th level. From what I can see, at 5th level, I already have sharpshooter, 18 dexterity, horde breaker, and crossbow expert. So I am already getting 3 attacks on 1 target and 1 attack on a adjacent target at d6 + 4 + 10.

I am looking down the road, and I am unsure what improvements really await me. Volley is nice but it won't improve my single target dpr and swift quiver won't come until toward 17th level and only nets me 1 extra attack at the expense of another concentration buff.

Am I missing anything. I feel like my character has already peaked in terms of combat potential.

How do you have two feats and 18 AGI with a class that only gets one ASI at the level you are? Variant human and good rolls? :) and yep ranger after 5 does not get much, Druid or cleric or rogue are all good options after that tho if mc is allowed. :)

Since you are level 7 tho I would suggest getting 2 more ranger levels for another ASI and level 3 ranger spells, then choose rogue(for more utility and damage) or cleric/Druid for more spell casting utility. :)

[Gtdead]

As it was already pointed out, Rogue is better single-target DPR, but by your admission not dramatically given it's only an ~8 DPR boost over Swift Quiver. There is the caveat that you need to either use Crossbow Expert or not use Sharpshooter for this to be definitively true.


No, swift quiver is a 8~ dpr over hunter's mark.
Rogue is even better because he can get permanent advantage with his bonus action. Quiver needs bonus action for weapon attacks.

Still it's not dramatic, but considering that rogue does this without spending resources, his features can make Favored Enemy better, he can get most ranger and hunter subclass features by lvl 5, well it's almost a no brainer.

Unless you want to play a beastmaster, you lose nothing by MC into a rogue and the best part is that the choice is flexible. You can get 15 rogue levels or you can get 6. Whatever you feel like. You don't even lose an ASI.

[Submortimer]

So I am looking over the hunter ranger(currently playing a 7th level one) and I am wondering whether their single target damage really improves much after 5th level. From what I can see, at 5th level, I already have sharpshooter, 18 dexterity, horde breaker, and crossbow expert. So I am already getting 3 attacks on 1 target and 1 attack on a adjacent target at d6 + 4 + 10.

I am looking down the road, and I am unsure what improvements really await me. Volley is nice but it won't improve my single target dpr and swift quiver won't come until toward 17th level and only nets me 1 extra attack at the expense of another concentration buff.

Am I missing anything. I feel like my character has already peaked in terms of combat potential.

I mean...you ARE using hunters mark, right?

I'm assuming from your numbers that you're using a hand crossbow. In general, that means you should be doing roughly 2d6+4+10 × 3 + 1d8 every round.

At range.

That strictly out classes everything else in the game until you hit 11th level.

Pole arm masters won't hit as often, warlocks don't get sharpshooter, paladins are bursty while your damage is sustained, fighters don't get colossus strike or hunters mark...you see where I'm going. Ranger is, damage wise, frontloaded.

If you absolutely must do more damage, MC a few levels of rogue. It fits the most with what you're going for. IMHO, focus less on dam age dealt and more on your character, you've already got more than enough ways to murder everyone you meet very efficiently.

[Saggo]

No, swift quiver is a 8~ dpr over hunter's mark.
Rogue is even better because he can get permanent advantage with his bonus action. Quiver needs bonus action for weapon attacks.
I know. Sneak Attack comes out to roughly the same increase over Swift Quiver that Swift Quiver is over Hunter's Mark. So not dramatic.



a large amount of which you get from rogue, the rest being mostly flavor ribbons.


Unless you want to play a beastmaster, you lose nothing by MC into a rogue and the best part is that the choice is flexible. You can get 15 rogue levels or you can get 6. Whatever you feel like. You don't even lose an ASI.
Again, at-will AoE, better AOE spells, better utility spells, and more Favored Enemies and Terrains doesn't constitute as flavor or nothing. You will delay or lose all of it by leveling into Rogue. The problem is the same picking Bard or Fighter, etc, just different lists. Claiming the last 15 levels of Ranger are nothing, empty, or flavor just isn't true. It depends on what the player wants.

[dev6500]

How do you have two feats and 18 AGI with a class that only gets one ASI at the level you are? Variant human and good rolls? :) and yep ranger after 5 does not get much, Druid or cleric or rogue are all good options after that tho if mc is allowed. :)

variant human and I rolled a 17 for one of my stats.

[Zalabim]

I think the most powerful DPR boost and concentration using spell that your Ranger is about to get is actually Conjure Animals. Just make sure you say Sticks to Snakes when you summon your constrictors or giant poisonous snakes. You can come up with something else for the rest of them.

[EvilAnagram]

So I am looking over the hunter ranger(currently playing a 7th level one) and I am wondering whether their single target damage really improves much after 5th level. From what I can see, at 5th level, I already have sharpshooter, 18 dexterity, horde breaker, and crossbow expert. So I am already getting 3 attacks on 1 target and 1 attack on a adjacent target at d6 + 4 + 10.

I am looking down the road, and I am unsure what improvements really await me. Volley is nice but it won't improve my single target dpr and swift quiver won't come until toward 17th level and only nets me 1 extra attack at the expense of another concentration buff.

Am I missing anything. I feel like my character has already peaked in terms of combat potential.

The simple fact is that Hunter Rangers tend to peak in their single-target potential quite early. They get a lot more useful features, but in that specific area they already have everything they'll get until level 17. Rogue is a solid choice for multiclassing if that's your primary interest.

Beast Masters don't peak in single target damage quite so early, getting another boost at 11th.