Stacking artisan feats

[weckar]

So. I just noticed something in the Eberron Campaign Setting. You can take these feats multiple times, and they stack. So, take Exceptional Artisan 4 times, and you'll craft items instantly? What?

Tell me what's wrong?

[Chewychunga]

I belueve is 25% x25%x25%x25% sort of thing so you would end up with 31.640625% total speed

[Gildedragon]

Legendary, Exceptional and Extraordinary Artisan feats can't be taken more than once.
Magical Artisan from Faerun can be (and it gets tied to an item creation feat). So if you take it 4 times, applying it to a each Artisan feat and then to the Feat you're using to create the iitems you end up bringing down the cost to 24%ish (.75 (LEE Artisan feats) *.75 *.75 *.75 *.75 (magical Artisan))
That ends up being about 12% of gp cost, and 24% of xp and time costs. But that was 7 feats

[Red Fel]

So. I just noticed something in the Eberron Campaign Setting. You can take these feats multiple times, and they stack. So, take Exceptional Artisan 4 times, and you'll craft items instantly? What?

Tell me what's wrong?

Somehow I don't think they stack additively. I think they stack multiplicatively, or sequentially.

If these feats stacked additively, you would reduce the time invested by 25% + 25% + 25% + 25% = 100%, meaning instantaneous. And as much as I'd love to let someone willing to sink four feats into crafting have nice things, that causes all sorts of havoc (particularly with respect to costs determined by crafting time). So let's instead apply those feats sequentially.

For example, let's say you need to make a widget that ordinarily takes 64 days to craft. Thanks to Exceptional Artisan, you reduce that time by 25%, to 48 days. If we used three more iterations of the feat, it wouldn't reduce our time by 16 days (25%) for each feat, but rather 25% of the remainder. Thus, the second feat reduces creation time from 48 to 36; the third from 36 to 27; and the fourth, messily, down to 21.

So instead of adding the 25%s together to get 100%, we multiply them together, as follows: 0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75= roughly 0.32, or 32%, indicating the amount of remainder (the combination of feats gives you a roughly 68% reduction in crafting time). When you multiply 32% by 64, our original number of days, you get 20 days and change, which rounds up to 21, the number of days remaining after applying the feats.

It's still a fantastic reduction, cutting out more than two thirds of the total crafting time. But it isn't a complete reduction.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you want instantaneous, XP-free wishes are the way to go.

[weckar]

Legendary, Exceptional and Extraordinary Artisan feats can't be taken more than once. Yes they can. They got the little 2 on the table.
Also, all the POSITIVE multipliers are additive in the game (2x damage + 2x damage = 3x damage), so why would this be multiplicative?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Also, all the POSITIVE multipliers are additive in the game (2x damage + 2x damage = 3x damage), so why would this be multiplicative?Real world numbers are explicitly multiplicative. For instance, if your base speed is 30' and you have two doubling effects, you have a 120' speed, not a 90' speed.

[Troacctid]

Real world numbers are explicitly multiplicative. For instance, if your base speed is 30' and you have two doubling effects, you have a 120' speed, not a 90' speed.

Works for time, but not for XP. Probably not for gp either.

[Gildedragon]

Yes they can. They got the little 2 on the table.
Also, all the POSITIVE multipliers are additive in the game (2x damage + 2x damage = 3x damage), so why would this be multiplicative?
They do have the two. Still Magical Artisan is handier as it reduces all the costs.
Still point stands about requiring a lot of feat investment for diminishing returns.
But the price reduction can make you make a lot of profit, enough to fuel personal item creation; use xp transfer rules and you're golden, expending your xp only when you want.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

They do have the two. Still Magical Artisan is handier as it reduces all the costs.And it applies to any item creation feat. Note that the Legendary, Extraordinary, and Exceptional Artisan feats are all item creation feats, and they apply to every item you make. So don't apply Magical Artisan to, say, Craft Wondrous Item. Apply it to the other Artisan feats, instead. It's all cumulative!

[torrasque666]

Yes they can. They got the little 2 on the table.


They do have the two.

But doesn't text trump table though? And considering that the feats don't have any sort of SPECIAL line saying they can be taken more than once, wouldn't they fall to the general rule about not being able to take a feat multiple times? Or is this likely just an editing error?

[Starkeeper]

There's an ECS errata that says you can only take each of them once.