Need help making a bard

[RingofThorns]

I recently got invited to try out a new gaming group, and from what I have been told they have a pretty good spread, with a paladin at the front with a mace and a shield,a ranger focusing on bow use,a spell caster and I can't recall if he said sorcerer or wizard, and I think with a rogue in there as well.

So I asked if I could try and roll up a bard and give that a try, the DM said it was fine so I am looking for any pointers about making and playing a bard. I have done some reading on them in what books I have and it kind of seems they are a jack of all trades type class, so any ideas,tips, and pointers would be greatly appreciated.

[ComaVision]

You don't want tips because an optimized bard would be entirely out of place with that low optimization group. Just try whatever looks fun, and try to pick effective spells.

[Malroth]

Find out if you're playing Pathfinder or 3.5 as the answers will be VERY different.

[RingofThorns]

That is a very good point, the game is DnD 3.5.

[dgnslyr]

As a general rule for good spells, never underestimate battlefield control effects. You can use Cure X Wounds to restore people's health, or you can Glitterdust your enemies to prevent them from dealing damage in the first place. A wizard can Fireball an enemy halfway to death, but one Grease spell can practically keep someone out of a fight for good. There's a lot more to combat than just dealing damage!

[ATHATH]

Check out a Bard handbook or two.

Generally, buffing Bards can get away with being of a higher optimization level than the rest of the group much easier, because they're making the rest of the group better instead of directly annihilating enemies.

[Hiro Quester]

Yeah. Focus on buffing your party and a bit of battlefield control (e.g. grease).

Inspire courage is worth putting resources into (masterwork instruments, items, feats, spells can all improve it).

Take the Melodic Casting feat to be able to cast spells while using bardic music (and now you can dump the concentration skill and use perform instead). Learn the spell Harmonize (or get a custom item made of continuous effect of it) to be able to use Bardic Music as a move action.

Now (when you get 3rd level spells) you can make your first round in every encounter performing inspire courage (move action) and casting Haste (std. action) on your party members.

All the melee classes will love you for it (and its relatively easy for your DM to plan encounters accordingly).

[ExLibrisMortis]

The Dragonfire Inspiration feat will replace Inspire Courage's standard +n to hit and damage with +nd6 fire damage on each hit (no further to-hit bonus, so this effectively trades +1 to hit for 2.5 damage, on average). This stacks with regular IC, if you have enough music uses to activate and maintain both. You can take this feat at level 1, but you must have the dragonblood subtype, for example by being a silverbrow human or kobold.

You can use Song of the Heart to increase your Inspire Courage bonus by 1. The feat requires 6 ranks in Perform and Inspire Competence, so it can be taken at level 3.

If you have 15 intelligence and charisma, you can take Words of Creation at level 6. Using the feat to enhance Inspire Courage, you take 3d4 points of nonlethal damage, and the IC bonus is doubled. That means you can have +4 to hit and damage at level 6, or +4d6 damage on each weapon attack with Dragonfire Inspiration.

[Troacctid]

Obtain Familiar is a very strong feat for bards because your familiar shares all your skill ranks, and you have a lot of skill ranks.

By using the aid another option, it can give you +2 on basically every skill, or it can roll its own check and effectively let you take the better result for skills like Spot, Listen, Knowledge, and Sense Motive. On top of all that, you get Alertness as a bonus feat, as well as other perks like scent and +2 to your Fortitude saves (if you pick a rat) or blindsense and +3 to Listen (if you pick a bat). It lets you speak with animals of its kind, so you can use all the rats or pigeons of the city as your personal informants. It can use magic items in combat to improve your action economy. And all that is WITHOUT taking Improved Familiar!

[Ortesk]

I will also suggest the Dragonfire Inspiration line. Bards make great buffers, and with snowflake wardance can be quite good in melee themselves. Add on the typical UMD fun, and well...you could be the best in the group (unless the wizard is highly optimized)

Since being the best is usually bad, since as a bard you will be the RolePlay go to guy, focus on all those buffs. Boosting that paladin, ranger and rogue will make you very popular very quick. Bards, to me, are the best team players. And the players won't care how powerful you are (A bard will quickly outpace most others in sheer versatility) if you are making them much better at fighting.

On the last note, you are a bard! Be a rockstar, sing and dance. Have fun, throw a party, seduce a nymph

[RingofThorns]

So I am wanting an update to this thread looking for more help, basically the bard set up I have going is pretty useful I buff the team and even have a few things here and there to help in combat. However as the DM seems to have had the same idea I had about a setting based of grimgar fantasy and ash we wind up in many a tough encounter that sees my spells drained rather quickly. I have run into this problem more then a few times and sadly my current build just isn't cutting it for when I have to get into the fight, besides my spells I do have a hand crossbow though a limited number of shots, plus the DM does a good job of playing the monsters with some good tactics going after anyone healing, or pressuring spell casters and archers to keep them from being able to set up and deal damage. I am currently fighting with a rapier and that does some damage but I need some help figuring out how to make it more effective. The party isn't due back in town for a while so I have some feats and skill points open to me, I am looking for any suggestions on how to make a light weapon wielding bard that can atleast not get curb stomped if he has to fight.

[Malroth]

Look up Flickerdart's Bardzilla.

It is a thing of beauty.

[Bronk]

So I am wanting an update to this thread looking for more help, basically the bard set up I have going is pretty useful I buff the team and even have a few things here and there to help in combat. However as the DM seems to have had the same idea I had about a setting based of grimgar fantasy and ash we wind up in many a tough encounter that sees my spells drained rather quickly. I have run into this problem more then a few times and sadly my current build just isn't cutting it for when I have to get into the fight, besides my spells I do have a hand crossbow though a limited number of shots, plus the DM does a good job of playing the monsters with some good tactics going after anyone healing, or pressuring spell casters and archers to keep them from being able to set up and deal damage. I am currently fighting with a rapier and that does some damage but I need some help figuring out how to make it more effective. The party isn't due back in town for a while so I have some feats and skill points open to me, I am looking for any suggestions on how to make a light weapon wielding bard that can atleast not get curb stomped if he has to fight.

So, what do you have now? What level are you, what feats do you have now, and what do you generally use for spells? Did you go Dragonfire Inspiration, as was suggested earlier in the thread? Did you take the Obtain Familiar feat?

In general, if you're finding you're getting beaten down a lot:

1: Max out Inspire Courage (Inspiration Boost Spell (1st level bard spell), Badge of Valor (item), Vest of Legends (item), Song of the Heart feat, Words of Creation Feat)

2: Try to get DFI if you can... you can have the effects of both songs overlapping

3: Remind everyone that they also benefit from your music, which adds to both attack and damage

4: Get more allies that will benefit from your music (obtain familiar feat, wild cohort feat, dragon cohort feat)

5: Try to get a Crystal Echoblade for extra sonic damage.

6: Some good spells for a low level bard: Inspirational Boost, Critical Strike, Hideous Laughter, Nightmare Melody

7: You might try multiclassing into a spellcasting class or perhaps Swordsage

8: Run away more, or attempt diplomacy

Good luck!

[RingofThorns]

We just barely got to level four but can't level until we get back to town, so I have two levels worth of feats and skills heading my way. In the world where the game is taking place magic items are fairly hard to come by until you get higher level or have a ton of gold which is why my original idea of having points in use magic device and stocking up on wands kind of crapped out.

[Troacctid]

Running out of spell slots is normal at your level. The problem should hopefully resolve itself naturally as you level up and gain more spells per day.

[Honest Tiefling]

We just barely got to level four but can't level until we get back to town, so I have two levels worth of feats and skills heading my way. In the world where the game is taking place magic items are fairly hard to come by until you get higher level or have a ton of gold which is why my original idea of having points in use magic device and stocking up on wands kind of crapped out.

Ask your DM if you can move those around. If there's limited magic items, how did your character even learn that skill, and why would they ever learn it in the first place?

[Hiro Quester]

You should be running out of spells at this level. Use your bardic music and spells to buff the others, and stay out of harm's way. Use a ranged weapon after that.

But check out the feat Snowflake Wardance for later on. It enables you to add your charisma bonus to attack rolls if you use a slashing weapon (suggest longsword). With that and a crystal echoblade you can melee with the rest after you use bardic music and spells to buff the party.

At higher levels a bard can be a melee beast. The 4th level spell Sirine's Grace will buff your cha and dex, and add your cha Bon us to AC. Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows add your cha bonus in fire damage to every hit. A horn of Resilience combines with Inspire Greatness to add an extra 50 hp to one recipient (it can be you).

Edit: UMD is an awesome skill for a bard. It's use does not really come online until higher levels (when you will also have a ton of gold) and have enough ranks in this skill to use any wand or staff. Your higher level self will thank you for keeping this high.

[Inevitability]

You could ask your DM for a wand of some useful 1st-level spell you can just cast every round (Lesser Confusion perhaps?). Let's say you burn through two charges an encounter, then the wand will last 25 encounters. That's more than enough time to level up once or twice and gain more spells and new gear.

[RingofThorns]

Ask your DM if you can move those around. If there's limited magic items, how did your character even learn that skill, and why would they ever learn it in the first place?

We can still learn any skill we have access to, just because they are hard to come by doesn't mean we never will. Mostly I picked it up because I have seen bards use it before to great effect, also since most of the bigger (4/5 or even higher) parties of goblins have some type of spell caster in them I kind of assumed we would gank a few and then I could bank off any magic items they had. Sadly I was wrong as they well haven't had any. I normally fight with a rapier, I figured that was rather fitting and all and every so often I manage to do well enough damage wise with it but normally I wind up just keeping one busy till the big front lines guy can come and help me take care of the goblin. Also to explain these goblins are buffed and often have at least one class level in some basic class, as well as at least one feat if not two. So that combined with the DM having good tactics means the players always have to be pretty careful about which fights we pick and which ones he know to run away from, instead of just running in and killing everything like so many other games turn into.