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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Rules interactions questions for a bunch of feats and class abilities



justiceforall
2016-04-20, 12:34 AM
Check my RAW please?

Assume the character in question is Bard 1/Paladin X (let's say, 10), and I take Devoted Performer and Initiate of Milil feats:
1. The character gets 11 uses of Bardic Music a day
2. The character can use those for Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, and Inspire Greatness
3. The character's Inspire Courage bonus is... just +1? This part I'm really not sure on. Initiate of Milil states:
Your bard, cleric, and paladin levels stack for the purpose of determining which kinds of bardic music you can use (but not any other effect related to bardic music). which seems to imply Inspire Courage doesn't gain effectiveness from it?
4. The character would qualify for feats such as Song of the Heart, Ironskin Chant, etc. so long as they kept their Perform ranks up
5. Taking the feat "From Smite to Song" would not affect any of the above in any way, since it is an entirely disctinct ability that does not key off the things the other feats check? It would provide an alternate use for Smite Evil that would act independently?

Somewhat related question - is there any actual hard rule that prevents a character from taking multiple FR-god-specific substitution levels and/or feats?

Bronk
2016-04-20, 06:34 AM
Check my RAW please?

Assume the character in question is Bard 1/Paladin X (let's say, 10), and I take Devoted Performer and Initiate of Milil feats:
1. The character gets 11 uses of Bardic Music a day
2. The character can use those for Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, and Inspire Greatness
3. The character's Inspire Courage bonus is... just +1? This part I'm really not sure on. Initiate of Milil states: which seems to imply Inspire Courage doesn't gain effectiveness from it?
4. The character would qualify for feats such as Song of the Heart, Ironskin Chant, etc. so long as they kept their Perform ranks up
5. Taking the feat "From Smite to Song" would not affect any of the above in any way, since it is an entirely disctinct ability that does not key off the things the other feats check? It would provide an alternate use for Smite Evil that would act independently?

Somewhat related question - is there any actual hard rule that prevents a character from taking multiple FR-god-specific substitution levels and/or feats?

It all looks good except to say that for #5, a smite evil converted by 'from smite to song' into an inspire courage would have the bonus granted as if you were a bard of a level equal to your bard + paladin levels, so the base bonus would be higher than your regular bardic music uses from #1-3.

The only rules for taking the substitution levels and initiate feats are the prerequisites. For the initiate feats, these often conflict (because of differing patron deities), and if you lose the prereqs, you lose the benefits of the feat.

Additional increases to bardic music abilities:

Badge of Valor: among other things, +1 to inspire courage three times per day

Vest of Legends: among other things, treated as a bard 5 levels higher for bardic music purposes

Inspirational boost spell: first level bard spell, swift action for +1 to inspire courage (your example would need at least one more level of bard to cast it)

Focused Performance feat from Dragon 338 p89: among other things, can use an additional bardic music use to use a music ability that affects more than one person (including inspire courage) to instead affect one person, doubling all effects and penalties for that one person

Words of Creation feat: double your inspire courage bonus in exchange for damage

justiceforall
2016-04-20, 08:06 PM
Damn so I was even right on the Inspire Courage never scaling up using Initiate of Milil?

I was hoping I was somehow wrong there.

Bronk
2016-04-20, 09:13 PM
Damn so I was even right on the Inspire Courage never scaling up using Initiate of Milil?

I was hoping I was somehow wrong there.

I feel your pain, but even without your paladin feat trick, by the level in your example, you're only missing out on a +1 to IC. With the feat, you've got it back by using the smite, and you can still use all the other ones for other things. Mostly powering feat abilities and metamagic...