Suggestion vs suggestion

[wunderkid]

Righto pretty simple inquiry here,

Assuming I suggest something and tell it to go to st ives. But on its way there it meets a man with seven wives. This man is a wizard and suggests he returns to where he came from.

What happens?

a) the original suggestion takes precedence, once completed it will then move down the stack onto the next one.
b) the new suggestion overwrites the old one.
c) he finds out about the 7 cats in 7 sacks and goes on a murderous rampage at the indignation and animal cruelty.
d) his brain explodes
e) something else happens

[Segev]

In 3e, at least, that explicitly would have led to an opposed CL check between you and the wizard of 7 wives. I'd probably resolve it similarly here, but I don't know what 5e's RAW would say, if anything.

[JeffreyGator]

With the wording that you have described (in which the wizard with 7 wives does not specify a time frame for the return) and assuming the man fails both saves and the journey is less than 8 hours, I see the man going to St ives and then immediately returning to where he came from.

If the journey to St Ives takes more than 8 hours, he will turn around after eight hours of travel toward st ives and while traveling back home the suggestion to return will expire and having been walking for more than a day, he will likely break for the night since it is now dark and he is tired.

[Vogonjeltz]

Righto pretty simple inquiry here,

Assuming I suggest something and tell it to go to st ives. But on its way there it meets a man with seven wives. This man is a wizard and suggests he returns to where he came from.

What happens?

a) the original suggestion takes precedence, once completed it will then move down the stack onto the next one.
b) the new suggestion overwrites the old one.
c) he finds out about the 7 cats in 7 sacks and goes on a murderous rampage at the indignation and animal cruelty.
d) his brain explodes
e) something else happens

It depends on who cast suggestion with the higher level spell slot.

PHB page 205, Combining Magical Effects (sounds pretty relevant to the question, right?):

"The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect-such as the highest bonus-from those castings applies while their durations overlap."

If the spells are the same level, only the first would apply until completed. If the second remains after the first ends, then it could take effect. If the second were higher level, it would take over and when it ends, if the first was still in effect, then the first would come back into play.


So you could totally have a scene where two very high level wizards have a pissing match over who gets to order their minions around.

Wizard1: Percy, can you go get me the newts?
Wizard2: No, no, I asked him to the bat wings!
Wizard1: *casts suggestion at level 2* Go get me the newts first.
Wizard2: Oh no you don't! *casts suggestion at level 3* Percy, get me the batwings first.
Wizard1: *Suggestion level 4* Newts

[Segev]

Wizard1: Percy, can you go get me the newts?
Wizard2: No, no, I asked him to the bat wings!
Wizard1: *casts suggestion at level 2* Go get me the newts first.
Wizard2: Oh no you don't! *casts suggestion at level 3* Percy, get me the batwings first.
Wizard1: *Suggestion level 4* Newts

Wizard2: *Suggestion at level 2* Newts!
Wizard1: *Suggestion at level 6* BAT WINGS!
Wizard2: *smugly watches Percy run off*
Wizard1: Wai--DAMN!

[Slipperychicken]

You could resolve it like a counterspell attempt, with the new caster making a check (proficiency plus casting stat) against the old one's spell level plus 10 to override it. If the new one is a higher level, it automatically supersedes the old one.

[Mr.Moron]

He does both to this best of his ability. How depends on the nature of the suggestions. Since in this specific case he wasn't told to "Go back where he comes from right now", presumably he will follow the suggest to go to St. Ives, then go back to his seven wives. If he was told to go back when he came from right away, he'd go back to is seven wives and then head out to St. Ives. THis was a matter of ordering. If say told to do something else "Juggle Knives" why he'd find some knives to juggle on his way to St. Ives.

If worded in a way intentionally and directly opposed "Don't ever go to St. Ives" it'd simply go to whichever suggestion would be more reasonable or compelling if they'd been made without magic. Because in this case the power of the suggestions is equal, so whatever tie breaking needs to happen at the margin of the effect should default the personality, wishes and mindset of the suggested indvidual. After all it's not out-and-out mind control you're still just using magic to make them agreeable to something reasonable.

For example "Go to St.Ives you'll be given tons of money. Don't head home until you get it." vs "Go back to your seven wives, they're all sick. Never go St. Ives as it will make them sicker." would boil down to if the guy likes his seven wives more than he likes money.

I got another one: What if you make the suggestion "Don't follow this suggestion"?

[Segev]

I got another one: What if you make the suggestion "Don't follow this suggestion"?

That one's resolved the same way it would be by any real human being without magic. "Okay," he says, and ignores you for making a (literally) nonsensical suggestion. Humans are able to resolve paradoxes by recognizing what they are and dismissing them.

[tieren]

He does both to this best of his ability. How depends on the nature of the suggestions. Since in this specific case he wasn't told to "Go back where he comes from right now", presumably he will follow the suggest to go to St. Ives, then go back to his seven wives. If he was told to go back when he came from right away, he'd go back to is seven wives and then head out to St. Ives. THis was a matter of ordering. If say told to do something else "Juggle Knives" why he'd find some knives to juggle on his way to St. Ives.

If worded in a way intentionally and directly opposed "Don't ever go to St. Ives" it'd simply go to whichever suggestion would be more reasonable or compelling if they'd been made without magic. Because in this case the power of the suggestions is equal, so whatever tie breaking needs to happen at the margin of the effect should default the personality, wishes and mindset of the suggested indvidual. After all it's not out-and-out mind control you're still just using magic to make them agreeable to something reasonable.

For example "Go to St.Ives you'll be given tons of money. Don't head home until you get it." vs "Go back to your seven wives, they're all sick. Never go St. Ives as it will make them sicker." would boil down to if the guy likes his seven wives more than he likes money.

I got another one: What if you make the suggestion "Don't follow this suggestion"?

I'm not sure I agree with this approach. It is logical and makes sense, but I think it runs contrary to the spell stacking rule cited earlier. The wizard of seven wives does not know the man walking to St. Ives is under the effect of a suggestion, if he casts another suggestion on him and the man fails his save and keeps on walking to St. Ives the wizard may feel slighted by his DM.

The spell doesn't say "unless the target is operating under the effects of a different spell/casting", and there is the general rule that targets can only be subject to one casting of the same spell (so you can't have 3 different bless spells on you).

I believe RAW either the second one has to fail or the first one has to be overwritten. Since I don't think immunity to further castings of suggestion is balanced to bake into the spell I would go over it being overwritten. Otherwise you could do silly things like cast suggestion on your party fighter to not follow any other suggestions until the BBEG is defeated to effectively give him immunity to the spell for 8 hrs.

[JeffreyGator]

Otherwise you could do silly things like cast suggestion on your party fighter to not follow any other suggestions until the BBEG is defeated to effectively give him immunity to the spell for 8 hrs.

I would mess greatly with this as either the party fighter or the GM.

No other suggestions? so you would disagree with all party planning except your ideas.

The prior enslavement/enspellment to prevent subsequent bespelling is actually a pretty classic trope. I especially liked it's use in the furies of calderon series, but it often comes up in fiction whenever there is magical words based obedience.