E6 Sneaky sword moves

[Mr_Blue]

Hello fellow members,

I am currently playing in an E6 campaign of questionable power level. This is not surprising to me as the group has been playing together for years. The current party is as follows: Knight (monkey grip 2 handing), Fighter/ranger (soon dread commando), "wizard" (class wizard, 18 cha, Flat out weakest wizard i have ever seen), healer (vows), and swordsage (me, nothing fancy).

So, I have been writing up backup characters for this campaign, and one suggestion put forward by the other players was playing a more strait forward fighter. Which lead me to a pair of feats: Mercurial Strike (dragon mag. 310) Riposte (dragon mag. 304). Given they both need +5 BAB they will be the end game for the build.

My current thought is human Sneak attack fighter 4/ rouge 2, but i would like to hear what you fine people have for ideas. Thanks in advance.

Side note: we are using fractional BAB, core races only, no flaws, and low magic setting (minimal spellcasters to be found)

[Darrin]

My current thought is human Sneak attack fighter 4/ rouge 2, but i would like to hear what you fine people have for ideas. Thanks in advance.

You get more sneak attack with SA Fighter 3/Rogue 3 (4d6). That also gets you the Penetrating Strike ACF (Dungeonscape/Ravenloft).

[Mr_Blue]

You get more sneak attack with SA Fighter 3/Rogue 3 (4d6). That also gets you the Penetrating Strike ACF (Dungeonscape/Ravenloft).

Now that i have my Unearthed Arcana in hand you are correct. Just to be sure, I can use that 4d6 of sneak attack on an opportunity attack if they are flat footed? My other question is, can you use the iaijutsu skill on opportunity attacks? I will not be using it as it clearly does not fit the setting, but im curious.

[ATHATH]

Now that i have my Unearthed Arcana in hand you are correct. Just to be sure, I can use that 4d6 of sneak attack on an opportunity attack if they are flat footed? My other question is, can you use the iaijutsu skill on opportunity attacks? I will not be using it as it clearly does not fit the setting, but im curious.
I recommend snagging Lightbringer Strike (it's an ACF) with that third level of Rogue.

[Darrin]

Now that i have my Unearthed Arcana in hand you are correct. Just to be sure, I can use that 4d6 of sneak attack on an opportunity attack if they are flat footed?


Yes, although it depends somewhat on what condition is making them flat-footed. If the target has any amount of cover or concealment with regard to you, then you can't use sneak attack.



My other question is, can you use the iaijutsu skill on opportunity attacks? I will not be using it as it clearly does not fit the setting, but im curious.

Yes, but you'll want to be careful about which weapon you are wielding and which weapon you are drawing for iaijutsu focus. In order to make an AoO, you need to threaten the squares around you. This means you need to be wielding a weapon or are otherwise able to make an attack in the squares around you. Wearing armor spikes or having Improved Unarmed Strike allows you to threaten the squares around you, even if you aren't currently wielding a weapon in your hands. Once the AoO is triggered, you need a way to draw a weapon as a free action (Quickdraw or Least Crystal of Return). Once the weapon is drawn, you can make your iaijutsu check and attack with the weapon you drew.

However... there is some RAW issues with the way iaijutsu focus is written. Once you've drawn a weapon and made your check, the rules don't say you have to attack with *that* particular weapon. You could draw a weapon as a free action, drop it as a free action, and attack with a different weapon. Most DMs will shoot this down as a gross violation of common sense, so don't try this unless you've already discussed it with the DM and he agrees with your interpretation of the rules.

[daremetoidareyo]

However... there is some RAW issues with the way iaijutsu focus is written. Once you've drawn a weapon and made your check, the rules don't say you have to attack with *that* particular weapon. You could draw a weapon as a free action, drop it as a free action, and attack with a different weapon. Most DMs will shoot this down as a gross violation of common sense, so don't try this unless you've already discussed it with the DM and he agrees with your interpretation of the rules.

Orrr...

Only use this as a surprise tactic once, and swap your awesome weapon for a really really dumb/clever one... like a sap, or a slap, or a toy, or something gross. Aim for moments of super high tension to pull this off however.

[Fizban]

Once the AoO is triggered, you need a way to draw a weapon as a free action (Quickdraw or Least Crystal of Return). Once the weapon is drawn, you can make your iaijutsu check and attack with the weapon you drew.
Free actions cannot be taken outside of turn (talking is an exception). You need some ability to draw weapons outside of your turn in order to pull this off, and not even the gnomish quickrazor will do since drawing it is still a free action.

[Darrin]

Free actions cannot be taken outside of turn (talking is an exception). You need some ability to draw weapons outside of your turn in order to pull this off, and not even the gnomish quickrazor will do since drawing it is still a free action.

You can perform free actions if they are associated with another action that is allowed outside your turn. PHB page 139:

"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."

Thus, if you are allowed to perform an action outside your turn, you can perform free actions along with it. This would allow you to pull out material components for a spell, draw ammunition for a projectile weapon, change the grip on your weapon, etc.

The sticking point is AoOs are not explicitly defined as any particular type of action. The text says you can perform a standard melee attack, but it doesn't specify if this is an attack action, an immediate action, or a non-action.

[Mr_Blue]

Yes, although it depends somewhat on what condition is making them flat-footed. If the target has any amount of cover or concealment with regard to you, then you can't use sneak attack.



Yes, but you'll want to be careful about which weapon you are wielding and which weapon you are drawing for iaijutsu focus. In order to make an AoO, you need to threaten the squares around you. This means you need to be wielding a weapon or are otherwise able to make an attack in the squares around you. Wearing armor spikes or having Improved Unarmed Strike allows you to threaten the squares around you, even if you aren't currently wielding a weapon in your hands. Once the AoO is triggered, you need a way to draw a weapon as a free action (Quickdraw or Least Crystal of Return). Once the weapon is drawn, you can make your iaijutsu check and attack with the weapon you drew.



The 2 feats I listed above resolve the issue of getting them flatfooted on a AoO. Reposte gets you an AoO when they miss you, and you have used combat expertise on your last turn. Mercurial Strike allows you to quick draw a weapon to make an AoO and makes them flat footed if you do so. However, the feat says you must be unarmed to do this, which means you must threaten squares without a weapon in hand. So the build will require improved unarmed strike or armor spikes (sounds like the easier option).

[Inevitability]

The Thug fighter variant explicitly stacks with Sneak Attack Fighter, and adds a few interesting things to do out of combat at the cost of your armor proficiencies. If you don't care about tanking and/or have a high dexterity, consider it.

[Mr_Blue]

The Thug fighter variant explicitly stacks with Sneak Attack Fighter, and adds a few interesting things to do out of combat at the cost of your armor proficiencies. If you don't care about tanking and/or have a high dexterity, consider it.

The thing is I am going to need that AC so my enemies miss to trigger reposte. While the skill points are nice I feel being able to do 4d6 sneak attack while in fullplate is far more amusing. Now, evasion does require medium/light armor to work so i doubt i will be in fullplate, but you never know (mithril fullplate maybe?).

[PraxisVetli]

If you allow PF material, Path of War Expanded has Mithral current maneuvers, they may be of some assistance.

[Mr_Blue]

If you allow PF material, Path of War Expanded has Mithral current maneuvers, they may be of some assistance.

Sadly we do not. The last game got a little... out of hand. so we are sticking to the 3.5 books for this one. i know PF material tends to be well balanced, but we made an agreement at the outset about it.

Also, i forgot to mention we play with 25 pt buy, but the only stat i need for the build so far is a 13 Int. Which is makes this build very easy to make. As it is:

Fighter 3/ Rouge 3
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 10 Wis 10 Int 13 Cha 10
ACFs: SA fighter, Penetrating Strike

[Gildedragon]

Craven would probably be a good feat choice. It is just +6 damage but if you're SAing reliably