Cha-dumping race.

[ayvango]

I'm building swordsage and I'm puzzled with selecting appropriate race for the character. I dislike frontline fighters for their inherent MAB: Str, Con, Dex are all valuable for them. They could not focus on single ability like mages do and obtain other from casting. On that specific case: high wis and high dex are required for AC. Relatively high Con is useful for HP. Well, I may start with 12 Con, then trade it in character rebuild quest and become necropolitan. Str is needed for melee damage and for weight limit. I'm planning to use weapon finesse and settings sun throw maneures that could be fuelled by either Dex or Str. 13 Int is needed for combat expertise and improved trip. The only ability score that is useless is Cha.

What races of 0LA could help me with trading Cha for something useful for that build?

[Doctor Despair]

I'm going to drop the obligatory "load up on +0 templates" comment, because someone ought to.

In terms of actual races that dump charisma... All the dwarf and half-orc subtypes are a good place to start. They're the only things that immediately spring to mind. Take one of those, slap on as many templates as you dare, and you should be fairly stated out.

[Telonius]

Dwarf is an obvious one. A less common one would be Hadozee, from Stormwrack (Low Cha, High Dex). If Lesser Tieflings (Players' Guide to Faerun) are allowed, that would probably be the best stat trade you could get for +0 LA.

EDIT: Aside from templates, of course.

[mabriss lethe]

Warforged gets some nice abilities/ immunities in exchange for a hit to Charisma.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Remember that swordsages LIKE having high stats in multiple areas, but they don't NEED them as much as others. Lots of skill points mean you can get by with an Int of 10 or 12. Shadow Blade and damaging maneuvers mean you can get by with a lower Str. And if you focus on Dex (via Shadow Blade) and grab a Concentration-to-Will-save maneuver, Wis is a nice bonus but isn't absolutely critical. So really, you can fairly easily focus on Dex and Con and be just fine, especially in a lower op game. Anything beyond that is gravy: a nice spread on top of the real meat of the class's function, but it isn't the main dish.


Warforged gets some nice abilities/ immunities in exchange for a hit to Charisma.And I'm +1'ing this. I love warforged. Great immunities and fantastic support all over the Eberron books. Add Dragonborn to make it even better. Now you can wear armor if you want!

[KillianHawkeye]

Try Mongrelfolk from Races of Destiny. There're also Elans if psionics is available, and Snow Elves from Frostburn.

[OldTrees1]

Warning: The following presumes point buy

There is a difference between an ability being useless(Cha), worth less(Wis), useful(Con, Int), important(Str and/or Dex), or a casting stat(none in this case). The difference is the range you want those abilities to be at before/after magic items.

Useless abilities can be dumped. However note that races are not balanced well enough that a penalty to a dump stat would be a sign of a beneficial race. Instead just ignore these abilities.

Some abilities give some benefit(like the Wisdom to AC for wearing inferior armor unless you can afford mithral). These abilities tend to be best bought with gp rather than raw talent.

Useful abilities (Con & Int) are not worth paying more than 1 point per increase. A racial bonus here is nice, but only worth half as much as the next category.

Important abilities will have a 14 minimum(1 point per increase) and might even go to 16 or 18. A racial ability here is quite valuable(not worth forgoing nice non numeric racial benefits but still very valuable).

I recommend either a strong (Str//Dex,Int,Con//Wis//Cha) or an agile (Dex//Int,Con//Str,Wis//Cha) build for point buy.
Water Orcs(+4 Str, +2Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha) and Earth Dwarves(+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha) make good strong swordsages and both Snow Elves (+2 Dex, -2 Cha) & Halflings(+2 Dex, -2 Str) make good agile swordsages

Others I did not double check:
Azerblood, Lesser(+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha)[Player’s Guide to Faerun pg. 191 (lesser version)]
Chaond, Lesser(+2 Con, +4 Dex, -2 Cha)[Player’s Guide to Faerun pg. 191 (lesser version), Monster Manual II pg. 170]
Zenythri, Lesser (+2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha) [Player’s Guide to Faerun pg. 191 (lesser version), Monster Manual II pg. 170]

[ayvango]

I was thinking about Frost Elf (-Cha, +Dex), Buomman (-Cha, +Wis) and Anthropomorphic Monkey(-4 Str +2 Dex +4Wis -2Cha).

Mongrelfolk dumps Int that is needed for the combat expertise feat. Dwarf is too slow for a swordsage that have several manoeuvres relied on moving and charging.

[rrwoods]

Whisper gnome dumps CHA and STR, and gives you DEX and CON. Pretty good for swordsages.

[Thurbane]

Lesser Chaond? +4 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha; Shatter as a SLA 1/day.

[Psyren]

Seconding whoever suggested Buomman, they don't get enough love and a Buomman swordsage would be pretty cool.


Warforged gets some nice abilities/ immunities in exchange for a hit to Charisma.

Warforged also have a Wis penalty though, which Swordsages may not like. Warforged make better Warblades and Crusaders.

[Gildedragon]

Lesser Ice para-genasi +4 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Dex and Cha
Lesser Zenythri: bonuses to Str Dex and Wis, malus to Cha

[Mato]

The Optimized Races Niche Compendium (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8884.0)